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Old 11th February 2020, 09:50   #61
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by shankha007 View Post
That's really sad for the lower trims! The regular car begs for a better engine and the 1.5 diesel did a whole lot of justice. Compared to the GT TDI, the regular TDI at least did not look shabby!

So the lower variants of the Polo will remain slower than vehicles almost two segments below, like the Alto K10 and the S-Presso.

I spoke to a person from VW, who looks after Sales in East, and as per him, the TSI might come to the regular Polo, but then again, he was not sure!
This is not confirmed. The 1.0L is a TSI engine only. There is no non TSI anymore.

Even in TSI you get 75bhp, 95bhp and 110BHP. So the lower Polo might get 75 or 95 and the GT might get 110BHP.

The Vento and Rapid will probably get 110BHP only.

Let's wait for VW to announce. I was merely mentioning what is available with the 1.0L TSI internationally.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:52   #62
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
This is not confirmed. The 1.0L is a TSI engine only. There is no non TSI anymore.

Even in TSI you get 75bhp, 95bhp and 110BHP. So the lower Polo might get 75 or 95 and the GT might get 110BHP.

The Vento and Rapid will probably get 110BHP only.

Let's wait for VW to announce. I was merely mentioning what is available with the 1.0L TSI internationally.
Alright! I get it. So you mean to say, the 1.0 MPI will be a thing of the past in the BSVI era?
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Old 11th February 2020, 10:05   #63
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I have never experienced a DSG. I gather that the advantage is the lightening-quick change.
Hands down the fastest shifting gearbox you can find on a mass market car. A test drive is highly recommended, just to experience the brilliance of it.

There are multiple flavors of dsg, working in slightly different ways, offered by various manufacturers and I find VW's to be the best. I have not driven a Porsche to date. Supposed to be THE BEST.

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Originally Posted by PearlJam View Post
I thought the 1.0 TSI wasn't out yet in India.
No it is not. I drove the car through these guys, in New Zealand.

https://mevo.co.nz/wellington/pricing

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Do note that Skoda had plonked this same 1.0 TSI into the Octavia a long time back, and reviews aren't too bad either!
Surprised to read the opinion on that review. It is running in a different state of tune. A 1l 3 pot with 90 or so horses and 175nm of torque, in a car that weights almost 1.4 tons, I find it hard to believe that it made the cut.

Like I said earlier, it works on a car like the Polo. On something heavier and more expensive, you expect more power and improved refinement levels. The 1L Tsi has identical NVH levels of the old NA 1.2l 3 pot that was offered on the Polo petrol.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 11th February 2020 at 10:07.
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Old 11th February 2020, 10:17   #64
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I have a mixed feeling. I am a 'manual' guy. Interestingly, my better half also prefers a manual. I was eagerly waiting on JTP BS-VI launch. All know how it went.

I am happy that now I'd be able to get that 'manual' from a reliable brand. But, as many have mentioned on forum elsewhere, the 1.0 is unknown. I just hope the 3 cylinder GT version behaves like 3 cylinder JTP. The 3 cylinder noise becomes 3 cylinder roar (may be a cub-like roar).
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Old 11th February 2020, 10:38   #65
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I don't quite get this strategy. Already the Polo-Vento-Rapid pretend to belong in the "Premium hatchback" / "Premium Sedan" segments. (Whatever that even means!) Now the DSG is being taken away, which was the prime distinguishing factor (No the German build isn't what majority of the Indian market cares about so far. Monthly sales show it) & even with that, the sales are just about average for the sedans & low for the hatchback when compared to the peers. (Rapid sold well over last couple of months mainly due to huge discounts I feel.)

With a 1.0L vibration box and an old school AT, how will these continue to ask for a premium? That's quite a lot of cost cutting (3 cylinder engine, simpler auto-box) creeping in. I don't think VW will actually reduce the price of the cars to pass on the savings to the customers in some fraction? Or will they?

I don't feel the DSG dropping has anything to do with reliability. The DQ200 was fairly sorted over last 2-3 years and no major concerns were reported over last few years. So whatever the problems were initially - seem to be sorted technically.

The Polo GT TSI / Vento TSI/TDI were some of the most fun to drive things thanks to the DSG. Without it, and with no chance of the Golf ever seeing our shores, what do we look up to?

I really hope the Altroz manages to come with a DCT now. A solid car, with a diesel engine & with a DCT? Can Tata see this opening in the door?
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Old 11th February 2020, 11:05   #66
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Now I too feel sad that the 1.2TSI is making way for a 1.0L TSI engine but seeing some of the Octavia reviews it looks like the engine has a lot of poke.
Opinions of the non enthusiasts

0-100kmh 1.0TSI Octavia
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Old 11th February 2020, 11:36   #67
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I don't quite get this strategy. Already the Polo-Vento-Rapid pretend to belong in the "Premium hatchback" / "Premium Sedan" segments. (Whatever that even means!) Now the DSG is being taken away, which was the prime distinguishing factor (No the German build isn't what majority of the Indian market cares about so far. Monthly sales show it) & even with that, the sales are just about average for the sedans & low for the hatchback when compared to the peers. (Rapid sold well over last couple of months mainly due to huge discounts I feel.)

With a 1.0L vibration box and an old school AT, how will these continue to ask for a premium? That's quite a lot of cost cutting (3 cylinder engine, simpler auto-box) creeping in. I don't think VW will actually reduce the price of the cars to pass on the savings to the customers in some fraction? Or will they?

I don't feel the DSG dropping has anything to do with reliability. The DQ200 was fairly sorted over last 2-3 years and no major concerns were reported over last few years. So whatever the problems were initially - seem to be sorted technically.

The Polo GT TSI / Vento TSI/TDI were some of the most fun to drive things thanks to the DSG. Without it, and with no chance of the Golf ever seeing our shores, what do we look up to?

I really hope the Altroz manages to come with a DCT now. A solid car, with a diesel engine & with a DCT? Can Tata see this opening in the door?
Only time will tell whether they did this to reduce the prices and raise volume OR to not lower the prices and pocket the savings.
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Old 11th February 2020, 12:29   #68
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by bipinbn View Post
Does anyone know which Torque converter gearbox are they going to use with the 1.0 in GT TSI?

I looked up and couldn't find much information about the 6 speed TC box they plan to use.

Is it going to be AISIN TF-60SN [Volkswagen transmission code 09G, 09M, 09K]?

Torque converters have come a long way from being torque eating slush boxes. With lock up clutch there is very minimal torque losses during most of the operation.
Well, I tweeted to Mr.Zac Hollis, Skoda Auto India director as he is very active on twitter. This is what he had to say:
Attached Thumbnails
VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT-tweet.jpg  

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Old 11th February 2020, 12:40   #69
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post

I don't feel the DSG dropping has anything to do with reliability. The DQ200 was fairly sorted over last 2-3 years and no major concerns were reported over last few years. So whatever the problems were initially - seem to be sorted technically.

I think the issue was more with perceived reliability rather than the actual reliability. I sold my GT TSi last year and every used car dealer or exchange evaluator had the same question for me before they gave me a price "sir, aapne Mechatronics unit replace karvaya hai kya?". My car had run about 55k and there were absolutely zero issues with it but the question was a reality check. Agreed that most dealers will use this an excuse to drive down the price but that itself becomes a problem for a new car buyer who is considering the DSG.

To confirm, I checked with the local VW dealer and he mentioned that replacment of Mechatronics units are common. Given the 1lakh cost of replacing it most new car buyers would avoid it like the plague if they got wind of it.

Given that VW has discontinued, I don't think any normal used car buyer will consider getting one. Enthusiasts probably.
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Old 11th February 2020, 15:07   #70
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
As per some of the numbers I have checked, the 0-100 timings are more or less identical but I assume the 1.2TSI will be more refined, more drive-able and offer better real-world mileage.
Hello,

I beg to differ on your point regarding refinement. I recently bought the latest gen VW Polo here in the UK. This comes with the 1.0L TSI in the higher state of tune (115ps) and the DSG gearbox. While the DSG is as magical as ever, the refinement levels VW has managed to deliver with the 3-cylinder 1.0L TSI engine is nothing short of remarkable! At city speeds and motorway speeds alike, it is one of the most refined and silent cars I have driven.

Will be posting an ownership thread of this over the coming weekend.

Cheers,
Praveen
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Old 11th February 2020, 17:14   #71
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
This will be the only engine for Rapid, Polo and Vento from now on.

However I think for the lower variants of Polo, they might get the lower engine tune of around 75 bhp to distinguish it from the GT line.
A little birdie tells me that VW might just retain the DSGs for the GTs only (No DSG for Vento, perhaps a Vento GT in the works?). If so, I think it is a logical way for them to differentiate between the products and sell the high-tech stuff only to the enthusiasts who are willing to pay a premium for it. Ideally, this transmission option should also be coupled with a different/more powerful state of tune.

Again, its speculation at this point but the source where it has come from leads me to not entirely write this off.
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Old 11th February 2020, 17:54   #72
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by 51morris View Post
While the DSG is as magical as ever, the refinement levels VW has managed to deliver with the 3-cylinder 1.0L TSI engine is nothing short of remarkable! At city speeds and motorway speeds alike, it is one of the most refined and silent cars I have driven.
This is nice to know. Is there a hint of vibration at idle RPMs? Most of the 3 potters have prominent vibration which can be felt in the cabin.
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Old 11th February 2020, 22:43   #73
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by 51morris View Post
Hello,

I beg to differ on your point regarding refinement. I recently bought the latest gen VW Polo here in the UK. This comes with the 1.0L TSI in the higher state of tune (115ps) and the DSG gearbox. While the DSG is as magical as ever, the refinement levels VW has managed to deliver with the 3-cylinder 1.0L TSI engine is nothing short of remarkable! At city speeds and motorway speeds alike, it is one of the most refined and silent cars I have driven.

Will be posting an ownership thread of this over the coming weekend.

Cheers,
Praveen
My comment was based on the fact that typically 3-cylinders lack refinement and drive-ability compared to the 4 cylinders. So, it is good to know that the cost cutting has not impacted refinement. However, I am sure about one thing that a smaller engine with a bigger turbo will be providing pretty poor mileage when driven hard. Overall, if the 3-cyliner 1.0 TSI is able to match the 4-cylinder 1.2 TSI, it is a great achievement indeed. So, let's see how it goes.

About the DSG, I bough the Vento TSI mainly because of the DSG as the performance is simply unmatched in the segment. Honda has a lazy CVT and others provide archaic 4-speed AT. DSG was so much superior to drive. Now, with the DSG gone, what will be the USP of the Vento/Polo? In terms of features or bling, they are at the bottom of the segment anyways.
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Old 12th February 2020, 02:01   #74
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by 51morris View Post
At city speeds and motorway speeds alike, it is one of the most refined and silent cars I have driven.
I'll second your observations about driving around in the city and on the motorway. That said, every time I took off at a traffic light or got even slightly aggressive with the throttle, that typical 3 pot clatter was evident. The car I drove had just 7000km on the odo.
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Old 13th February 2020, 01:23   #75
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
About the DSG, I bough the Vento TSI mainly because of the DSG as the performance is simply unmatched in the segment. Honda has a lazy CVT and others provide archaic 4-speed AT. DSG was so much superior to drive. Now, with the DSG gone, what will be the USP of the Vento/Polo? In terms of features or bling, they are at the bottom of the segment anyways.
I have the very same question - who would be the target audience to buy the Vento/Polo now ? I just like you bought the car only because of the superior driving capability provided by TSI + DSG combination, there was nothing in competition which drove similarly. But if that TSI + DSG combo is gone I don't think I would have chosen the Vento but something with probably more features, a Verna perhaps ?

As the opening post points out that it's a pure cost cutting exercise, it would be interesting to see if that gets passed on to the buyers.
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