[mayankk]

Oh.
This again?
Fantastic. And on a thread for lewis Hamilton's future this time?
How many times do these two lobbies plan on doing this?

[jraj]

Huh,let me get this straight.

So we are comparing to Michael,somebody whose only achievement so far is winning a sole WDC courtesy somebody else slowing down on the last corner of the last lap of the last race in the calendar

And in terms of commitment to the team,what a brilliant show to tweet the telemetry of your car.What next - tweeting which lap you are going to pit whilst in the cockpit?

Yes Michael is 43 and he has to stop sometime.It could well be this year too.But is Lewis the right choice or lets put it this way - Is Lewis worthy enough to push Michael back to retirement?Thats a multi million dollar question that Brawn and co have to answer.

Thats not a easy one.On one side you have someone who has prooven his mettle beyond doubt and who has his name etched in golden letters in the sport.On other side you have a kid who still refuses to growup and who still is a wannabe - Jacques Villeneuve,anyone?

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by asr245

Totally

His records are un-stained only to those wearing Michael tinted glasses. If Enzo Ferrari was around then, you can bet things would have been very different.

Originally Posted by anachronix

I knew that would be the last thing every Schumi hater uses to bail out! I am not surprised

He has his records to speak for himself and he has been aptly punished everytime he got desperate! So his records are still not stained!
There are more things than what you see on the points table!
Where is Sauber even now!? All this after 6 DNFs for Michael so far this season.
See you around, Michael-tinted glasses is a myth

Thanks for trying!

I would put this in simple words..

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER

Races 301 (300 starts)
Wins 91
Podiums 155
Pole positions 68
Fastest laps 77

LEWIS HAMILTON

Races 103 (103 starts)
Championships 1 (2008)
Wins 20
Podiums 48
Pole positions 23
Fastest laps 11

KIMI RAIKKONNEN

Races 170 (169 starts)
Championships 1 (2007)
Wins 18
Podiums 68
Pole positions 16
Fastest laps 37

FERNANDO ALONSO

Races 191 (190 starts)
Championships 2 (2005, 2006)
Wins 30
Podiums 80
Pole positions 22
Fastest laps 19

SEBASTIAN VETTEL

Races 94 (94 starts)
Championships 2 (2010, 2011)
Wins 22
Podiums 40
Pole positions 33
Fastest laps 12

Whats on Record is important, The Statistics show a different story,

Please add all the other drivers Championships, wins, podiums, pole positions and Fastest lap, Still it will not get close to What the Legendary Michael Schumacher has achieved.

Why are we joking around in this thread

[asr245]

Originally Posted by anachronix

You were expecting FIA to give him a life sentence in Carandiru Prison!?

FYI, he was disqualified from the championship in 1997!

I thought that my post made it clear I knew that. Apparently not. Question was what good is a disqualification from 2nd position, when nobody cares about 2nd place especially MS himself. He still got to keep his wins. His 91 wins include the 5 from 1997.

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

I would put this in simple words..
Please add all the other drivers Championships, wins, podiums, pole positions and Fastest lap, Still it will not get close to What the Legendary Michael Schumacher has achieved.

Dude, we are talking about the present, not past. 2012 & beyond, not 2006 & further back.

Anyway, enough of it.

Originally Posted by jraj

Yes Michael is 43 and he has to stop sometime.It could well be this year too.But is Lewis the right choice or lets put it this way - Is Lewis worthy enough to push Michael back to retirement?Thats a multi million dollar question that Brawn and co have to answer.

If Kimi could, why can't Lewis? Question is not about Michael being sent to retirement. If he was as good as he was 10 years ago, Brawn and Mercedes wouldn't even dream about replacing him. And if they are, clearly they know something more than we do. In the present crop, only one who seems Michael-ish is Alonso and he probably isn't going anywhere.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by asr245

He still got to keep his wins. His 91 wins include the 5 from 1997.
Anyway, enough of it.

If Kimi could, why can't Lewis? Question is not about Michael being sent to retirement. If he was as good as he was 10 years ago, Brawn and Mercedes wouldn't even dream about replacing him. And if they are, clearly they know something more than we do. In the present crop, only one who seems Michael-ish is Alonso and he probably isn't going anywhere.

Well thats how F1 works,doesnt it.I am sure Lewis's 20 wins include the ones he acheived with Mclaren-Ferrari.

Kimi was a worthy successor and he still is.Lewis is no way closer to IceMan.Had only Mclaren given him more reliable cars,I am sure he would be a 3 times WDC.

Irrespective of what Michael has done in this 3 years,there will come a time when he has to stop.He is 43 and Mercedez needs to plan for the future.But the big question here is,Is Lewis the correct man for them.Is he the one capable of taking them to the top in the future.Whatever Lewis has done so far,doesnt warrant a big YES as the answer to that question

[negativeH]

Originally Posted by jraj

Kimi was a worthy successor and he still is.Had only Mclaren given him more reliable cars,I am sure he would be a 3 times WDC.

Couldn't agree more.

Irrespective of what Michael has done in this 3 years,there will come a time when he has to stop.He is 43 and Mercedez needs to plan for the future.But the big question here is,Is Lewis the correct man for them.

It's pretty obvious Merc aren't sure bout this eh, otherwise a big shot like Lewis would already have been signed up.
I've always considered Lewis to be lucky to have landed up with a McL seat in his rookie year, probably also because of his 'ethnicity'. F1 as every company has always been keen to open new markets and Lewis' african heritage offered that.
That said, he's good yeah, but not great. Am pretty sure had he started with a mid field team or a back bencher like most rookies, he would have been booted long back.

I don't think anyone can ever 'replace' Schumi. No matter how, he is the brightest star in F1's history, atleast on paper.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by negativeH

Couldn't agree more.

It's pretty obvious Merc aren't sure bout this eh, otherwise a big shot like Lewis would already have been signed up.
I've always considered Lewis to be lucky to have landed up with a McL seat in his rookie year, probably also because of his 'ethnicity'. F1 as every company has always been keen to open new markets and Lewis' african heritage offered that.
That said, he's good yeah, but not great. Am pretty sure had he started with a mid field team or a back bencher like most rookies, he would have been booted long back.

I don't think anyone can ever 'replace' Schumi. No matter how, he is the brightest star in F1's history, atleast on paper.

Wo wo wo!!
Back that up a bit. Not only is that patently offensive, it's sort of beneath any standards. And what good has an aged has- been brought for Mercedes?
Development?
Ok. Done, and now he will be discarded. Whether its honorably is upto him. Instead of leaving on a high, this is what he came to. Pity. A fantastic statistical career, and this.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Wo wo wo!!
Back that up a bit. Not only is that patently offensive, it's sort of beneath any standards. And what good has an aged has- been brought for Mercedes?

Yeah right.I wonder,if a "has-been" couldn't bring anything to the Mercedes,then what can a "me-too" bring to them?

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by jraj

Yeah right.I wonder,if a "has-been" couldn't bring anything to the Mercedes,then what can a "me-too" bring to them?

So cute.


I suppose in that case Mercedes will forever follow the year set currently.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by asr245

I thought that my post made it clear I knew that. Apparently not. Question was what good is a disqualification from 2nd position, when nobody cares about 2nd place especially MS himself. He still got to keep his wins. His 91 wins include the 5 from 1997.

WoW! Some history lessons and I just love to talk about it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgpJFy-pudY

Remember this...!? Senna should have been disqualified for the whole season with 6 wins taken off from his name!

Lets say thats just ok, did Senna win a championship in 1990 after punting Prost out at the start! Poor memory, anyone!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiGUSyN9-zk

That will leave Senna with 6 less wins and 1 championship less! He will be only a double world champion with less than half of Michael's wins

If Kimi could, why can't Lewis? Question is not about Michael being sent to retirement. If he was as good as he was 10 years ago, Brawn and Mercedes wouldn't even dream about replacing him. And if they are, clearly they know something more than we do. In the present crop, only one who seems Michael-ish is Alonso and he probably isn't going anywhere.

Dont forget you are talking about a 43 year old gentleman racing! Sometimes people get old at that age and struggle to match the fitness of the 20/30 year olds. A very simple fact, but you want to turn a blind eye!

If Lewis, he would have been a double world champion already. He did it only in the last corner of the last race after some moved over for him!

[PAVAN KADAM]

Originally Posted by asr245

I thought that my post made it clear I knew that. Apparently not. Question was what good is a disqualification from 2nd position, when nobody cares about 2nd place especially MS himself. He still got to keep his wins. His 91 wins include the 5 from 1997.



Dude, we are talking about the present, not past. 2012 & beyond, not 2006 & further back.

Anyway, enough of it.
If Kimi could, why can't Lewis? Question is not about Michael being sent to retirement. If he was as good as he was 10 years ago, Brawn and Mercedes wouldn't even dream about replacing him. And if they are, clearly they know something more than we do. In the present crop, only one who seems Michael-ish is Alonso and he probably isn't going anywhere.

Dude, We are talking about a 43 year old man competing with a slow car and still making a mark in present day Formula 1, A man who's developing the team, the car and racing better than his team-mate.

He has to go one day, you cant expect a 45 yr old Schumi still competitively racing, but certainly Lewis will not replace him. It will be Schumi making way for the young driver to come in. Forget stepping in Schumi's shoes. Are'nt you joking ?

Originally Posted by mayankk

Wo wo wo!!
Back that up a bit. Not only is that patently offensive, it's sort of beneath any standards. And what good has an aged has- been brought for Mercedes?
Development?
Ok. Done, and now he will be discarded. Whether its honorably is upto him. Instead of leaving on a high, this is what he came to. Pity. A fantastic statistical career, and this.

This thread is going entirely backwards

We are talking about Lewis move to Mercedes. Period.....He's not in the next year, that we know.

Now coming to Michael Schumacher, He's no comparison to the immature Lewis Hamilton, not by a barge pole, Never....

Ross Brawn - Schumacher relationship go beyond Mercedes inception, so only time will tell whats going to happen. Its imperetive that any driver will move in to Mercedes, but certainly the value addition to the team that Michael gives, Lewis can never add (Considering his consistent and continuous Ranting time to time ) Lewis never agrees to grow up.

Lets not continue speculating further, without concrete information.

This is what Legends are made of, unlike the new dude on the block who's trigger friendly with his twitter account and also with the super fast car which keeps crashing at the wrong time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOQjY...ayer_embedded#

!

[negativeH]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Not only is that patently offensive, it's sort of beneath any standards.

I did not mean it that ways, if you're offended or anything. But the westerners are very conscious of the issue. Race isn't a hot topic in our country but a very critical point all over the world yeah. The absence of an African person in F1 has been widely criticized.
I never said his race was the only reason for his selection, just that it could have played a part.

Ok. Done, and now he will be discarded. Whether its honorably is upto him. Instead of leaving on a high, this is what he came to. Pity. A fantastic statistical career, and this.

The hunger to succeed never deserts a champion, and MS was/is a champion. So things din't go as per his plan, they seldom do in Life. But I don't think MS was the reason for the flop, he gave it all and more; his team let him down.
Now he's probably waiting for a decent run or a small high to fade out gracefully, forever this time.

[J.B]

Originally Posted by anachronix

WoW! Some history lessons and I just love to talk about it

Ya right, but people in the know will not agree with your lessons History Sir!

Originally Posted by anachronix

Remember this...!? Senna should have been disqualified for the whole season with 6 wins taken off from his name!

Wow, now you are acting like a FIA chief. Senna had his car infront of Prost's rear wheels before the corner and so it is Prost's responsiblity to not to turn in on him (if it was '12, he would have been penalized). Infact, Senna pulled the same move on the car that passed him during the tangle to take the lead back. He was still disqualified from this race and the main reason quoted was he used the service route to rejoin in the race. Later, it came to light that a couple of other cars that used the same service route during the race were not penalized and this was done by the French FIA chief at that time to help Prost win the championship.

Originally Posted by anachronix

Lets say thats just ok, did Senna win a championship in 1990 after punting Prost out at the start! Poor memory, anyone!?

Poor memory? Lol, did you forget that the pole position was shifted to the dirty side of the grid to help Prost who qualified 2nd to take the lead? Senna complained about this and nothing was done, such was the politics.

Originally Posted by anachronix

That will leave Senna with 6 less wins and 1 championship less! He will be only a double world champion with less than half of Michael's wins

Even if MS has 100 more wins, he would never be in the same page as Senna in history. You are comparing someone who raced hard with a multiple championship winning team mate, to someone who shamelessly resorted to team orders to make sure he wins the championship.

Originally Posted by anachronix

Dont forget you are talking about a 43 year old gentleman racing! Sometimes people get old at that age and struggle to match the fitness of the 20/30 year olds. A very simple fact, but you want to turn a blind eye!

Unfortunately there is no award for oldest man racing in F1.

I dont know what is the problem with MS fans, everyone who has commented in this thread agree he is a legend. But if you want everyone to worship him as you do and disdain every other racing driver, it would not happen.

[anachronix]

Originally Posted by J.B

Ya right, but people in the know will not agree with your lessons History Sir!

No problem kid

Wow, now you are acting like a FIA chief. Senna had his car infront of Prost's rear wheels before the corner and so it is Prost's responsiblity to not to turn in on him (if it was '12, he would have been penalized). Infact, Senna pulled the same move on the car that passed him during the tangle to take the lead back. He was still disqualified from this race and the main reason quoted was he used the service route to rejoin in the race. Later, it came to light that a couple of other cars that used the same service route during the race were not penalized and this was done by the French FIA chief at that time to help Prost win the championship.

You never read the posts that I was replying to and you want to do a Senna!

The video I posted has enough details to prove who was at fault! I am not going to spend time explaining the obvious.

Poor memory? Lol, did you forget that the pole position was shifted to the dirty side of the grid to help Prost who qualified 2nd to take the lead? Senna complained about this and nothing was done, such was the politics.

So is it justified trying to kill someone on track just because you start on the dirty side of the grid in front. Thats simply Senna's character, he never took it nicely when Michael beat him in 1994

Even if MS has 100 more wins, he would never be in the same page as Senna in history. You are comparing someone who raced hard with a multiple championship winning team mate, to someone who shamelessly resorted to team orders to make sure he wins the championship.

Thats your opinion, I respect it!

Compare this for a stat...

Senna spent 11 years in F1 with 41 wins from 65 pole positions & 3 Championships

vs

Michael spent 10 years in F1 (until 2004) with 91 wins from 68 pole positions & 7 Championships.

Thats enough stats to prove who was the best! We have discussed enough off-topic stuff already.

I am leaving it here!

[asr245]

Originally Posted by jraj

Kimi was a worthy successor and he still is.Lewis is no way closer to IceMan.Had only Mclaren given him more reliable cars,I am sure he would be a 3 times WDC.

Irrespective of what Michael has done in this 3 years,there will come a time when he has to stop.He is 43 and Mercedez needs to plan for the future.But the big question here is,Is Lewis the correct man for them.Is he the one capable of taking them to the top in the future.Whatever Lewis has done so far,doesnt warrant a big YES as the answer to that question

I like Kimi (not exactly a fan though) but I was very disappointed to see him go back in 2008-09. It felt like his heart just wasn't in it. Since then I am a bit unsure of him. That said, Kimi would be free for 2014. Norbert Haug has seen him before, so if this Lewis thing doesn't work out, maybe they would have Kimi in their list. But I do not want him moving to a under performing Mercedes.

Originally Posted by negativeH

It's pretty obvious Merc aren't sure bout this eh, otherwise a big shot like Lewis would already have been signed up.
I've always considered Lewis to be lucky to have landed up with a McL seat in his rookie year, probably also because of his 'ethnicity'. F1 as every company has always been keen to open new markets and Lewis' african heritage offered that.
That said, he's good yeah, but not great. Am pretty sure had he started with a mid field team or a back bencher like most rookies, he would have been booted long back.

Not a Lewis fan, but I am quite sure he would have still been noticed had he started with a lower rung team. That probably might have done him some good. It seems driving around in slower cars, making up numbers, seems to have a calming effect on some of the big shots. e.g. Alonso - Renault of 2008 & 09 must have calmed him down enough to be thankful for a competitive car. JB has driven slow cars, god knows for how many years. Kimi has seen that patch. Lewis & Vettel seem to be the most impatient of the current lot of champs out there. But they are both very fast and would be on any teams radar.

Originally Posted by negativeH

The hunger to succeed never deserts a champion, and MS was/is a champion. So things din't go as per his plan, they seldom do in Life. But I don't think MS was the reason for the flop, he gave it all and more; his team let him down.
Now he's probably waiting for a decent run or a small high to fade out gracefully, forever this time.

I agree with this partially. He's not been a flop or a success. I think people were expecting a lot which is why his comeback is being termed a failure. But you can't blame the team. You lose or win with the team.


And for the other history teachers out there - I know my F1 history enough to state what I state.