[dkaile]

Originally Posted by nitinbose

I do wish the following features were present in the Fortuner: Brake Assist, EBD, ESP, Hill accent / descent control.

In addition to this the console should be more luxurious. :-) as its a 25 lacs car!

I am trying to shorten the length of the gear lever as I find it too long, much like a truck gear lever. This would give a sporty feel when driving.

Thank You Nitin. I have read your posts and the customisations that you have done to your Fortuner. Mine costed 21.4L and I am pretty happy with the features I am getting with this car. I like things to work reliably in the LONG TERM rather than fill it to the brim with features which you may rarely/never use or which may conk off 1~2 years down the line (like the DSG's of Skoda that we are hearing).

These features which you have mentioned are of course desirable and features like ESP should be mandatory in all the cars. I feel ICE could have been better but it is not a deal breaker when I see even on many high end vehicles like BMW etc. which do not give full touchscreens on their lower end models. Toyota's anyway are not know for their bling value (unlike the XUV 500 e.g.) but reliability, solidity and economy in the long term is one thing which you will get from it for sure.

I would advise you against going in for gear lever modification as the the gears work super smooth with the present setup and you may mess that up in the process.

[Swanand Inamdar]

Woah, just read this in one go. I dont know how I missed such a wonderfull thread!
I know I'm pretty late on wishing congrats on the falcon, but nonetheless. Hearty Congratulations @Dkaile. What a lovely crisp review.

So, when does the Falcon meet the Admiral & Monaro's truck (preferrably in Pune )?

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

So, when does the Falcon meet the Admiral & Monaro's truck (preferrably in Pune )?

Hey ! Did someone mention Admiral ?!!

Now that meet would be truly a meaty meet !

dkaile - Have you used the HL/LL yet ? And if so any experiences to relate ? If not - any expeditions planned to use it ?

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by Swanand Inamdar

Woah, just read this in one go. I dont know how I missed such a wonderfull thread!
I know I'm pretty late on wishing congrats on the falcon, but nonetheless. Hearty Congratulations @Dkaile. What a lovely crisp review.

So, when does the Falcon meet the Admiral & Monaro's truck (preferrably in Pune )?

Thank You Inamdar ji. Maybe I will drive one of these days and gang up with all of you. Can't let you have all the fun alone.

Originally Posted by Guderian

dkaile - Have you used the HL/LL yet ? And if so any experiences to relate ? If not - any expeditions planned to use it ?

Errr... (sheepishly) NO. Now I know I may have a plethora of critics after me for having bought a vehicle without using its core capabilities. I just tested it recently for a few meters to check whether it (actually) works...lolz. The lights came on on the instrument panel and I drove a few meters and then am happily cruising on H mode for now. Maybe soon, a trip to Jim Corbett is planned, though I doubt I will need it there on its feeble streams. The H mode will cruise away sufficiently for that.

-------------

Today was Car Testing day...lolz. Had heard a lot about the XUV, so decided to head over to the Mahindra for a peek. But sadly it has still to reach our Meerut shores. Surely was disappointed by the build quality of the Scorpio's, Xylo's, Verito's and ummm... Bolero's standing there (Sorry Herr' Generale') but maybe it is due to the fact that I have been spoilt quite a bit by Toyota. Hope the XUV is a considerable upgrade from the lot I saw standing there seeing the buzz it has generated. Will re-visit it around Diwali that they have told me to.

Next Stop was Nissan to see Toyota's stablemate and to once again check upon the X-trail and the Sunny. Was a tad disappointed by the Sunny and it's overall built quality. The X-Trail failed to gather any enthusiasm either, as was evident from the empty showroom (and its sales numbers on GTO's magnificent monthly sales thread).

Next was Volkswagen and it certainly shook me up. The understated Jetta exuded quality and was a class above the Corolla (that I had expected it to be). It was over-priced at least 3L and would have moved sales had it not been so. No Auto AC on a 16~20L car was a deal breaker but it has been added in the shortlist for the next upgrade once the Auto AC version comes in (which I presume will be sooner than later seeing the feedback the SA gave me)

Next stop Chevrolet for the Cruze and diesel Beat. Cruze was a looker outside and dampner inside. Such a good car and my head stuck the roof while sitting on the back continuously. The front seats were nowhere as good as the Jetta and it felt a class lower to it (though almost similarly priced for the MT). I felt claustrophobic inside and quickly made my exit. The Beat diesel may be considered as a city muncher for my mother soon (seeing the petrol bills I am paying for her Santro). Was fully loaded at 5.5L on road but how long will Chevy quality last, now that I am used to the Toyota's, is questionable.

Seems I am not going wrong with the Falcon anytime soon and these visits re-assert my faith.

[amitwlele]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Today was Car Testing day...lolz. .

So these visits to the showrooms was just another stroll in the park or serious shopping?

May i ask which vehicle are you planning to replace/add to your stable?

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by amitwlele

So these visits to the showrooms was just another stroll in the park or serious shopping?
May i ask which vehicle are you planning to replace/add to your stable?

These are not just stroll's but actual planning for my next upgrade (which I had mentioned in the very 1st post of this topic). They do help to reassert the faith though. The Falcon is driving like a dream (it's virtually showroom condition still , so a long way to go).

I have to replace/add-on to My Qualis soon (depending whether my brother will let go or keep it parked in the basement for posterity...LOLz). So I am researching the options of my 2nd upgrade, whether it will be a luxury sedan (a Jetta/BMW320D/Camry), or back to good old (facelifted) Fortuner or the blingy XUV... time (2012) will tell. But that is a story for another thread...

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by dkaile

1. Errr... (sheepishly) NO. Now I know I may have a plethora of critics after me for having bought a vehicle without using its core capabilities. I just tested it recently for a few meters to check whether it (actually) works...lolz. The lights came on on the instrument panel and I drove a few meters and then am happily cruising on H mode for now. Maybe soon, a trip to Jim Corbett is planned, though I doubt I will need it there on its feeble streams. The H mode will cruise away sufficiently for that.

-------------

2. Surely was disappointed by the build quality of the Scorpio's, Xylo's, Verito's and ummm... Bolero's standing there (Sorry Herr' Generale') but maybe it is due to the fact that I have been spoilt quite a bit by Toyota.

Hi dkaile,
1. Noted ! Do report back after the HL/LL usage. Nope no way would you need the LL or even the HL in Corbett Park. So see if you can come down to Mumbai - shall take you somewhere where LL will be badly needed. Nope - not talking about the pot holed Mumbai roads.

2. Now coming to 'build quality'. One needs to define what exactly is meant by that I guess.
To my mind and going by my experience the Scorpio has a fabulous build Q. Now let me hasten to add that the Scorpio I am referring to is the first lot of CRDEs of 2005 vintage. It had fantastic paint quality and heavy armour steel plates as compared to the Toyota Fortuner.
I have no doubt as to who would emerge victorious after a round of serious headbutting.
And it(my Scorpio really !) was rather reliable too. Not once did it fail me on a mission. Of course niggles galore and the fit and finish left a lot to be desired besides the plastic etc.
Yes, both are abuse friendly and tough as nails.
But it is rather odious to compare a Rs. 10 L VFM Indian runabout and a Rs. 24 L Jap workhorse I guess !

[nitinbose]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Thank You Nitin. I have read your posts and the customisations that you have done to your Fortuner. Mine costed 21.4L and I am pretty happy with the features I am getting with this car. I like things to work reliably in the LONG TERM rather than fill it to the brim with features which you may rarely/never use or which may conk off 1~2 years down the line (like the DSG's of Skoda that we are hearing).

These features which you have mentioned are of course desirable and features like ESP should be mandatory in all the cars. I feel ICE could have been better but it is not a deal breaker when I see even on many high end vehicles like BMW etc. which do not give full touchscreens on their lower end models. Toyota's anyway are not know for their bling value (unlike the XUV 500 e.g.) but reliability, solidity and economy in the long term is one thing which you will get from it for sure.

I would advise you against going in for gear lever modification as the the gears work super smooth with the present setup and you may mess that up in the process.

Wow dkaile... 21.4L against 25.5L what we've got to pay in KA! huge difference which we would shell out for accessories.

I am also considering the fortuner for a long term hence the reason I chose against the Yeti.

However, I still feel BA, EBD, HA, HDC & ESP should have been there. As for the ICE, Toyota feels a customer who can shell out 20+ L for a car would definitely go in for an ICE upgrade, hence the reason its of a medium quality.

I am only planning to reduce the physical length of the gear stick, cutting it and grooving to fit the knob.

How would you rate the headlamps of the fortuner? I felt they were a tad dim, so went ahead and upgraded to Xenon HIDs, yesterday. A lot better now.


regards,

Nitin

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by nitinbose

Wow dkaile... 21.4L against 25.5L what we've got to pay in KA! huge difference which we would shell out for accessories.

I am also considering the fortuner for a long term hence the reason I chose against the Yeti.

However, I still feel BA, EBD, HA, HDC & ESP should have been there. As for the ICE, Toyota feels a customer who can shell out 20+ L for a car would definitely go in for an ICE upgrade, hence the reason its of a medium quality.

I am only planning to reduce the physical length of the gear stick, cutting it and grooving to fit the knob.

How would you rate the headlamps of the fortuner? I felt they were a tad dim, so went ahead and upgraded to Xenon HIDs, yesterday. A lot better now.

I feel the Lights with High Beam are very adequate, if not best in the business compared to others with halogens. How is your experience with HID's? Their cost of installation? Any tampering with original wirings? Just because of the last reason, I am wary to go in for the same.

Yeti is a very fine vehicle but quite overpriced in my opinion. It's Sept'11 sales figures (50) tells the whole story. It may have all those features that you talk about but seriously how many times have you actually gone off-road with your vehicle? If your answer is rarely, then you have answered your own question. Also it is questionable how well will a computer/machine based system work like e.g. hill descent control. I would rather like to be in control of my vehicle on 'my' terms and not on a fancy computer. I would rather have a powerful trouble free torquee engine with a flawless transfer case and low ratio with powerful brakes on which I can depend in emergencies than some of these fancy features. For me, it is how a vehicle actually performs in day to day and emergency situations which is more important rather than a long feature list. I also am not a huge fan of the auto gearbox for the very same reason as reasoned above and prefer the manuals for hands on approach to my machine. Only ESP is one feature I feel 'could' prove useful in emergency situations. ABS as is, is included in our machine which has brake assist built in, if I am not wrong (afaik). Someone may correct me if he has other information on this matter.

These fancy things may add to a manufacturers quotient to attract its customers but these features are very rarely used (some don't use it ever). If Toyota introduces them then the quality which they 'want' to deliver will push up prices further in Indian conditions. It has all these in their arsenal but introduce them in countries where it is more needed. In India, even a feature like cruise control is useless in my honest opinion, as per my recent experience on a toll road (as detailed in one of my previous posts).

I would once again like to dissuade you from your gear lever modification as then you will have to 'stretch' your hands to change the gears which may not be the perfect ergonomic position to do so. However its eventually your vehicle and your choice.

And KA sure is a costly place to buy a vehicle. They have also recently increased the tax on diesel vehicles even in Delhi (from 10% to 12.5%), whereas we enjoy just 2.5% in Uttaranchal.

[Aroy]

Toyota has all if not more of the "Fancy Features" in their more expensive range. Take Prado, the only thing similar is the engine and space to an extent, every thing else is upgraded - automatic transmission, gizmos & electronic aids etc, but you pay the price for it.

I am of the old school, which likes manual gear & mechanical transfer case. If I was driving for livelihood, then of course I would consider all the aids which will ease my "Job", but as long as I drive for pleasure I want to be in control and make most of the decisions myself (rather than let the computer do it for me!)
Some of the things I prefer doing myself -
. I will change the gear when it suits me rather than let the computer decide
. I will descend using low ratio in transfer case (if required), at a speed that is safe, rather than depend on the computer, which if it judges wrong, or the hill is extremely steep will land me in soup.
. I know when to use the low ratio and the diff locks (if available), and do not want to depend on the computer to keep cycling between low and high (or 4x2 and 4x4) in marginal mud/ice
. I definitely do not want the vehicle to stall in thick mud, when a low ratio and crawl is all that is needed, and the computer cannot decide which mode to shift to.

It boils down to the fact that I will never be comfortable with a soft roader, but prefer the old school 4x4 with a transfer box (and an LSD at least). Finally I really do not want to pay for things which I do not need/like.

[Guderian]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Some of the things I prefer doing myself -
It boils down to the fact that I will never be comfortable with a soft roader, but prefer the old school 4x4 with a transfer box (and an LSD at least). Finally I really do not want to pay for things which I do not need/like.

Hi Aroy/dkaile,
Men after my own heart !
One of the reasons why I picked up the Toyota Fortuner - totally manual - Gears, manual T-Case (no fancy electric Borg W system), no fancy elctronics - ESP/DSP/CSP etc. And for couple of reasons - firstly these gizmos falling prey to the Indian weather and dust and whatnot. Secondly if anything conks out the lack of skills in the ASCs to set it right. Believe me I have stood on the ASC shopfloor (of another autoco) listening to grease monkeys debating what could be wrong with a particular vehicle's A/T gearbox/electronics etc - terrible ! And what would they do with fancier stuff like ESP/EBD/sensors etc ?
Believe me despite what companies claim - about the ASC staff being fully trained - on the ground the realities are quite different.

[Monaro CV8]

^^
Well said that..
Hill Descent/ Hill Ascent are more useful in Auto Trannys (IMO).

If one does want to enjoy a simple 4x4 activity, wont these gizmos rob us of the pleasure?!

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by Guderian

And it(my Scorpio really !) was rather reliable too. Not once did it fail me on a mission. Of course niggles galore and the fit and finish left a lot to be desired besides the plastic etc.
Yes, both are abuse friendly and tough as nails.
But it is rather odious to compare a Rs. 10 L VFM Indian runabout and a Rs. 24 L Jap workhorse I guess !

Noted Herr' Generale'. An actual user report is more accurate than a casual 5 minute walk-through. But I did feel that the Scorpio's quality has deteriorated over the years. Cost cutting perhaps?

Originally Posted by Aroy

Toyota has all if not more of the "Fancy Features" in their more expensive range. Take Prado, the only thing similar is the engine and space to an extent, every thing else is upgraded - automatic transmission, gizmos & electronic aids etc, but you pay the price for it.

I am of the old school, which likes manual gear & mechanical transfer case. But prefer the old school 4x4 with a transfer box (and an LSD at least). Finally I really do not want to pay for things which I do not need/like.

Well Said Aroy!
Prado is quite similar to the Fortuner in dimensions and engine. They are asking nearly 2.5 times the price just for the gizmos they have added. Toyota does ask for a 'steep' price for their high-end quality. Basic quality 'in the essentials' will do for me for now... lolz

Like you, I too like to be in manual control of my vehicles. Not all upgrades (read computerisation) are incremental as discussed on many 4x4 threads going on in TBhp and also on many 4x4 guides I have been reading recently.

[nitinbose]

Originally Posted by dkaile

I feel the Lights with High Beam are very adequate, if not best in the business compared to others with halogens. How is your experience with HID's? Their cost of installation? Any tampering with original wirings? Just because of the last reason, I am wary to go in for the same.

Yeti is a very fine vehicle but quite overpriced in my opinion. It's Sept'11 sales figures (50) tells the whole story. It may have all those features that you talk about but seriously how many times have you actually gone off-road with your vehicle? If your answer is rarely, then you have answered your own question. Also it is questionable how well will a computer/machine based system work like e.g. hill descent control. I would rather like to be in control of my vehicle on 'my' terms and not on a fancy computer. I would rather have a powerful trouble free torquee engine with a flawless transfer case and low ratio with powerful brakes on which I can depend in emergencies than some of these fancy features. For me, it is how a vehicle actually performs in day to day and emergency situations which is more important rather than a long feature list. I also am not a huge fan of the auto gearbox for the very same reason as reasoned above and prefer the manuals for hands on approach to my machine. Only ESP is one feature I feel 'could' prove useful in emergency situations. ABS as is, is included in our machine which has brake assist built in, if I am not wrong (afaik). Someone may correct me if he has other information on this matter.

These fancy things may add to a manufacturers quotient to attract its customers but these features are very rarely used (some don't use it ever). If Toyota introduces them then the quality which they 'want' to deliver will push up prices further in Indian conditions. It has all these in their arsenal but introduce them in countries where it is more needed. In India, even a feature like cruise control is useless in my honest opinion, as per my recent experience on a toll road (as detailed in one of my previous posts).

I would once again like to dissuade you from your gear lever modification as then you will have to 'stretch' your hands to change the gears which may not be the perfect ergonomic position to do so. However its eventually your vehicle and your choice.

And KA sure is a costly place to buy a vehicle. They have also recently increased the tax on diesel vehicles even in Delhi (from 10% to 12.5%), whereas we enjoy just 2.5% in Uttaranchal.

Hi dkaile,

The road tax in KA is 18.5% and the Vat is 14% which constitutes for the high price.

You can only adjust the beams in the Fortuner but not its brightness.

The Xenon HIDs are quite good. The total cost including installation came to 14K. The make is P8. This is the same brand sold by the Toyota showroom, however they charge 9.5K for a pair, whereas I got it for 7K.

The original wires remain the same, just that the existing bulb holder is unplugged to plug-in the HID parts. This one came with the slim ballast and is of light weight. No cutting of existing wires is done, hence one may safely restore to stock lights in minutes.

I installed HIDs for both low and high beams. I opted for 4300K, as its color is the closest to stock bulbs. 6K would be white and higher temperatures would be bluish hampering vision.

I wanted to upgrade the bulbs to 100/90W but no such option exists for the fortuner.

Are you considering an ICE upgrade? What would you consider?

regards,

Nitin

[dkaile]

Originally Posted by nitinbose

The original wires remain the same, just that the existing bulb holder is unplugged to plug-in the HID parts. This one came with the slim ballast and is of light weight. No cutting of existing wires is done, hence one may safely restore to stock lights in minutes.

I installed HIDs for both low and high beams. I wanted to upgrade the bulbs to 100/90W but no such option exists for the fortuner.

Are you considering an ICE upgrade? What would you consider?

Whats is power rating of the HID's? Is it the same as the originals? I hope they do not put any additional wattage load on the wiring otherwise they may get damaged in the long run.

With the ICE upgrade I am more confused than ever after researching so many options... LOLz. The Caskas and the MegaAudios are filled with features but somehow lacked in Audio quality. The best bet I presume is the Pioneer 4390 which lacks the GPS (but can be added separately at extra cost) It's about 22K on street price with India bill and warranty. Steering controls can be also made to work with it (as per feedback from Manuuj) aith an extra cost (2K) accessory. For now sticking to the OE 6 CD changer stereo as it has more than welcome audio quality (which is my primary need).