[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by AJ56

2 days is about the minimum time it’ll take a shop considering all the machine work + application.

For a full cure you want to keep it dry from rain and moisture for 7 days. No washing during this time either. You can drive around normally though (assuming it’s dry outside.)

And it is done. They managed to get rid of all the swirls and micro scratches that toyota delivered the car with. I can really see the metallic blue glitter like flakes of the paint now.











The orange peel on the side panels bother me though. Toyota really did a bad job on the paintwork of a 40L car. Other than the hood, trunk and roof, there is noticeable orange peel on all the other panels. All this research now has me spotting flaws that I never would have noticed otherwise.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Attachment 2452016

Attachment 2452017

The orange peel on the side panels bother me though. Toyota really did a bad job on the paintwork of a 40L car. Other than the hood, trunk and roof, there is noticeable orange peel on all the other panels. All this research now has me spotting flaws that I never would have noticed otherwise.

Congratulations on the new car.

I’ll agree the orange peel in the third shot on the front fender is unacceptably high as it doesn’t match the other panels. Still wouldn’t recommend you wetsand it heavily as you’ll lose a significant amount of clearcoat for optical clarity.

Toyota is no exception, most new cars are coming with worse paint than before, in terms of thickness and spray quality, excessive orange peel and debris caught under the paint being the main ones. It’s not about cost, as long as it’s mass produced in a factory, you’ll see this. Even an E class for eg. has these issues. That’s why a PDI is critically important before putting money down.

Another point, hopefully the entire car doesn’t look like the second shot. There is excessive haze and fine swirling/holograms clearly visible showing poor finishing during machine work. This is what properly corrected black paint should look like-

[drasitkhanna]

Guidance required from Shifus...
Am confused between PPF vs Ceramic coating for my brand new Hector plus (petrol auto, black, 6 seater). Its still in the MG stock yard and i am thinking of getting the treatment done even BEFORE it comes to the house.
Q 1- Should i do this!?
Q 2- What would be better (PPF Or Ceramic?). Requirement is the wet glossy look for a long time..

Detailing mafia guy is saying he will do the paint "correction" first before ceramic coating. Is it necessary on a new car? Will it spoil/affect the new paint?

Please guide!
Thanks
Dr Asit Khanna

[revvharder]

Originally Posted by drasitkhanna

Guidance required from Shifus...
Am confused between PPF vs Ceramic coating for my brand new Hector plus (petrol auto, black, 6 seater). Its still in the MG stock yard and i am thinking of getting the treatment done even BEFORE it comes to the house.
Q 1- Should i do this!?
Q 2- What would be better (PPF Or Ceramic?). Requirement is the wet glossy look for a long time..

Detailing mafia guy is saying he will do the paint "correction" first before ceramic coating. Is it necessary on a new car? Will it spoil/affect the new paint?

Seeing that you're based out of Ghaziabad, I would recommend you to take some time and visit Bhpian AJ56's detailing studio in Gurgaon.

If the requirement is just the wet glossy look and no protection from scrapes and scratches then you should go for ceramic coating but if you're looking for protection from chips, scratches then PPF is your best friend also the studio is correct about the correction part, the paint from factory in most of the cases isn't perfect and needs to be corrected before any sort of ceramic coatings or ppf's.

Also I'd recommend you to check AJ56's posts in this thread, to get a better understanding on ceramic coatings.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by drasitkhanna

Guidance required from Shifus...
Am confused between PPF vs Ceramic coating for my brand new Hector plus (petrol auto, black, 6 seater). Its still in the MG stock yard and i am thinking of getting the treatment done even BEFORE it comes to the house.
Q 1- Should i do this!?
Q 2- What would be better (PPF Or Ceramic?). Requirement is the wet glossy look for a long time..

Detailing mafia guy is saying he will do the paint "correction" first before ceramic coating. Is it necessary on a new car? Will it spoil/affect the new paint?

Please guide!
Thanks
Dr Asit Khanna

Congratulations on the new car doc.

1) Yes after you’ve checked it throughly during PDI, you want to take delivery and protect the paint as soon as possible from the elements as new cars don’t come with any protection from the factory.

2) The wet glossy look is maintained over the years by following safe washing methods, eliminating any form of dry abrasion like dusters, cloth wiping, etc.

PPF will give you protection from moderate physical impacts and rock chips but the downsides outweigh the positives in my opinion, the entire car has to be opened up leading to fit and finish issues as factory panel fit is lost (assuming you want an invisible install). Otherwise on many panels the outer edges of the film will be visible which tend to look ugly after some time.

PPF will also add optical distortion (also called orange peel) as you’re essentially covering your beautiful paint with plastic. It also yellows over time (all brands). There are also fine textures and patterns visible in the film, again good brands will have less of this, but if you’re particular about the sharpness of reflections in your paintwork, best avoid PPF.

Finally, you still have to put a pro coating over the PPF if you want any of the ceramic benefits as the pre coating the PPF comes with (if at all) doesn’t last anywhere near as long.

Ceramic coating will protect from all the elements chemically and physically (upto its own thickness), which can be as much as 20-22 microns for some brands. Your factory clearcoat is around 50-55 microns for reference. It will also give the coated surfaces extreme hydrophobic properties which make cleaning and drying very quick.

3) No, paint correction simply means using a fine cut polish with a polisher and soft pad to remove the light swirling every new car comes with. In addition they will also use tar + ferrous + hard water spot removers before polishing as part of the decontamination step.

It is an abrasive process, but on a new car the the shop doesn’t need to use anything more than a fine cut abrasive, which will remove not more than 0.5-1 microns of paint, which is negligible. Does not affect paint integrity at all (max safe threshold for most cars is around 18-20 microns of clearcoat or about 40% of its total thickness).

If you are still concerned, request they share paint thickness readings on one spot before they start the polishing process, and check in the same area after (before ceramic application as the coating will add a few microns of its own).

[drasitkhanna]

Thanks @Aj56, @Revvharder..

So Ceramic coating with pretreatment with a fine cut abrasive it will be.

Here is the quotation from them...

Dear sir,
Here's our DS ULTRA 9H NANO CERAMIC ARMOUR COATING Packages for MG HECTOR ;

Silver Package w/ 1 year Warranty - ₹22,999/-(2 Coats)
Gold Package w/ 3 years Warranty- ₹30,999/-(3 Coats)
Platinum Package w/ 5 years Warranty - ₹38,999/-(5 Coats)
Platinum Plus Package w/ Lifetime Warranty - ₹69,999/-(7 Coats) + Interior Coating

These Packages includes thorough
•Wash,
•Exterior Detailing,
•Ultra 9H Nano-Ceramic Armour Coating on Exterior,
•Interior Deep Cleaning,
•Engine Cleaning and Dressing,
•Sanitisation of the vehicle,
•Free Maintainance after every 6 months.

I guess the 3 year one would be best? Becuse try as we might, me and my driver will end up using some normal cloth (read old baniyan :-)) somedays for cleaning dust etc and that will spoil the show, right?

[bijims]

I got the following quotation/offer from the Kia dealership in my city for Ceramic/Graphene coating for my Black Kia Sonet, Which one of these would be the best option. Is Graphene worth the premium over Ceramic. I have never applied Graphene/Ceramic on any of my cars (none of them have been black and I never felt the need for coating then) and with Black being quite difficult to maintain, I decided to get it coated, so Kindly advice me the best option to go for.
Thanks in advance.

*Ceramic coating or Graphene coating - 2 years full body warranty and Free recoating every 10 months*

[yedukrishnan199]

Originally Posted by bijims

I got the following quotation/offer from the Kia dealership in my city for Ceramic/Graphene coating for my Black Kia Sonet, Which one of these would be the best option. Is Graphene worth the premium over Ceramic. I have never applied Graphene/Ceramic on any of my cars (none of them have been black and I never felt the need for coating then) and with Black being quite difficult to maintain, I decided to get it coated, so Kindly advice me the best option to go for.
Thanks in advance.

*Ceramic coating or Graphene coating - 2 years full body warranty and Free recoating every 10 months*

Graphene is just overhyped being the new type of coating on the block, it's essentially a ceramic coating with a few graphene particles mixed in and the benefits aren't what they are made out to be, both graphene and ceramic would do the same benefits in the current scenario.

Now, as regards Brands, Koch-Chemie is a German brand and that's why its costlier, but cost-benefit analysis points towards Menza Pro being the more VFM and Ceramic coating more than sufficient.

So I would recommend you save the extra cash and go for the Menza Pro Ceramic Coating.

[Born 2 Be Wild]

60k kms done, almost 3 years gone, the car gives new cars a run for their money in terms of gloss and shine! The gyeon mohs coat holding up brilliantly. It was raining in delhi today got the car foam washed and sealent applied when the sun came out. A good ceramic coat applied well and maintained well will always be fabulous.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Congratulations on the new car.

I’ll agree the orange peel in the third shot on the front fender is unacceptably high as it doesn’t match the other panels. Still wouldn’t recommend you wetsand it heavily as you’ll lose a significant amount of clearcoat for optical clarity.

Toyota is no exception, most new cars are coming with worse paint than before, in terms of thickness and spray quality, excessive orange peel and debris caught under the paint being the main ones. It’s not about cost, as long as it’s mass produced in a factory, you’ll see this. Even an E class for eg. has these issues. That’s why a PDI is critically important before putting money down.

I did do a PDI, I just didn't know what I was looking for back then. Just looked for panel gaps and things not working, scratches and no obvious repaints etc. Sad that I will have to live with the orange peel but atleast I know what to look for in my next car I guess.

Another point, hopefully the entire car doesn’t look like the second shot. There is excessive haze and fine swirling/holograms clearly visible showing poor finishing during machine work. This is what properly corrected black paint should look like

No, that's because the photo was taken in pitch black with only my (admittedly old) phone's flash. I was just eager to show the lack of swirls since the car was delivered with heavy swirl marks. Possibly because some clown at the dealership tried to polish it or was over-enthusiastic with the towel during the wash before delivery.



Sadly, I now have another problem. Went to another city over the weekend and didn't have covered parking. Woke up in the morning to discover bird droppings on the the hood. Dumped a bottle of water on it to ensure it won't eat through the coating. Then when I visited my friend's house, I used his hose to spray water at force and get rid of the droppings. It wasn't possible to wipe the car and it was left in the hot sun. On the way back home, there was also heavy rain. Finally cleaned the car yesterday with 3m shampoo and a pressure washer to find these water spots that won't go away.




Any idea what can be done?

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Sadly, I now have another problem. Went to another city over the weekend and didn't have covered parking. Woke up in the morning to discover bird droppings on the the hood. Dumped a bottle of water on it to ensure it won't eat through the coating. Then when I visited my friend's house, I used his hose to spray water at force and get rid of the droppings. It wasn't possible to wipe the car and it was left in the hot sun. On the way back home, there was also heavy rain. Finally cleaned the car yesterday with 3m shampoo and a pressure washer to find these water spots that won't go away.
Any idea what can be done?

Did you try using a MDR remover, is the car ceramic coated ?

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild

Did you try using a MDR remover, is the car ceramic coated ?

The car is ceramic coated so I haven't tried putting any chemicals on it other than the 3m shampoo that the detailer had said was okay.

[Born 2 Be Wild]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

The car is ceramic coated so I haven't tried putting any chemicals on it other than the 3m shampoo that the detailer had said was okay.

Then best would be to ask the detailer on what to do. He is the best person to advise as he will know the inside out of the product he is using and what it can withstand.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Sad that I will have to live with the orange peel but atleast I know what to look for in my next car I guess.

No, that's because the photo was taken in pitch black with only my (admittedly old) phone's flash. I was just eager to show the lack of swirls since the car was delivered with heavy swirl marks. Possibly because some clown at the dealership tried to polish it or was over-enthusiastic with the towel during the wash before delivery.

Sadly, I now have another problem.
Any idea what can be done?

Yes a little orange peel is always present on any mass produced car in a factory. However excessive peel is unique to certain pieces, I’m certain you won’t find any other models with a fender like this, despite being the exact same spec/colour. But still wouldn’t suggest repaint as the body shop will mess up the other panels with overspray (masking film is a foreign concept to most dealer body shops).

For water spots use a mineral deposit remover like Puris D19 water spot remover. Or simply take it to your detailer. In case machine polishing is needed, your coating needs to be reapplied in the affected areas.

Pitch black and old camera have no relation to holograms and haze, see below. Haze is not the same as swirls and is generally eliminated in the finishing step of machine polishing, as most cutting compounds leave a haze behind.

Short clip showing the same thing-

https://youtu.be/GA9NaSjE1l4

The first picture shows the difference between properly corrected paint (lower half) and paint that has been polished but the haze hasn’t been removed (no finishing polish used).

The second picture shows original condition, paint after a rubbing compound with haze, and finally paint after compounding and refining. Note: all shots are using the same bright flashlight, same car, same spot (bonnet).

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Pitch black and old camera have no relation to holograms and haze, see below. Haze is not the same as swirls and is generally eliminated in the finishing step of machine polishing, as most cutting compounds leave a haze behind.

Short clip showing the same thing-

https://Youtu.be/GA9NaSjE1l4

The first picture shows the difference between properly corrected paint (lower half) and paint that has been polished but the haze hasn’t been removed (no finishing polish used).

The second picture shows original condition, paint after a rubbing compound with haze, and finally paint after compounding and refining. Note: all shots are using the same bright flashlight, same car, same spot (bonnet).

Hmm the pictures you posted still looks a lot like camera over-exposure artifacts to me but I think I understand. I will be taking the car back to the detailer for the water spots so I will ask him about the haze.