[sizz28]

Hi folks,
I am taking delivery of Volkswagen Virtus Edge edition (pearl black colour) this week.
I am planning to get ceramic coating + PPF on OVRMs and bumpers (as I have to drive in congested roads in Bangalore from time to time). While my building parking is in shade, the office parking is open so the car will get a lot of dirt, sun and other environmental exposure.
Can folks here please help me with the following questions -
1. Is it a good idea to get PPF on bumpers? Would it cause a colour difference between bumpers & rest of the body?
2. Is there any difference between Graphene coating vs Ceramic?
3. Should I get any treatment for windshield and rear glass?
4. Please recommend good vendors for getting these done in Bangalore (preferably in HSR, Koramangala area). So far I have noted Esperto and Feynlab.
5. What brand and product should I consider for both ceramic & ppf? for PPF I have heard about Garware brand multiple times in this forum. While for ceramic coating I have noted carpro.

[sizz28]

Can you share the overall cost (or at least what % discount over their quoted price did you manage to get)?

Originally Posted by pach

I got ceramic coating done for my new Innova Hycross from Esperto, Bilekahalli and I am happy with the results.

[pach]

Originally Posted by sizz28

Can you share the overall cost (or at least what % discount over their quoted price did you manage to get)?

original quote was 40k, I paid 38k, they added PPF pm ORVMs, inside of door handles and door edges. I did not negotiate much.

[Ghost131100]

I did look into ceramic coatings for my bmw but in the end I decided to put PPF. I got it done from Esperto Bangalore. I got a pretty good deal and the ppf does hold up. Recently a bike scratched my car’s rear bumper and there was barely a scratch on the PPF so the quality is quite good and the ppf is quite strong

[sizz28]

What was the total amount for full body ppf? Just for bumpers+ovrms they are quoting 22k for ppf. Also which film brand/type did they use?

Originally Posted by Ghost131100

I did look into ceramic coatings for my bmw but in the end I decided to put PPF. I got it done from Esperto Bangalore. I got a pretty good deal and the ppf does hold up. Recently a bike scratched my car’s rear bumper and there was barely a scratch on the PPF so the quality is quite good and the ppf is quite strong

[hyper-VTEC]

Originally Posted by sizz28

Hi folks,
I am taking delivery of Volkswagen Virtus Edge edition (pearl black colour) this week.
I am planning to get ceramic coating + PPF on OVRMs and bumpers (as I have to drive in congested roads in Bangalore from time to time). While my building parking is in shade, the office parking is open so the car will get a lot of dirt, sun and other environmental exposure.
Can folks here please help me with the following questions -
1. Is it a good idea to get PPF on bumpers? Would it cause a colour difference between bumpers & rest of the body?
2. Is there any difference between Graphene coating vs Ceramic?
3. Should I get any treatment for windshield and rear glass?
4. Please recommend good vendors for getting these done in Bangalore (preferably in HSR, Koramangala area). So far I have noted Esperto and Feynlab.
5. What brand and product should I consider for both ceramic & ppf? for PPF I have heard about Garware brand multiple times in this forum. While for ceramic coating I have noted carpro.

Congratulations on the new ride. Wish you many happy and safe Kms with it.

Answers to your questions from my point of view:

1. Ideally PPF is better than ceramic, since it has some self healing properties and is a separate "sacrificial" layer. It will save the paint if something brushes against your car. Some people (me included) find 1L+ for PPF too expensive, hence go for PPF only for bumpers, bonnet (to avoid paint chipping off due to flying debris during highway drives) and wing mirrors. Rest of the car, a good quality ceramic coating would do.

3. You can ceramic coat the windshield. Remember, glass ceramic coatings are different from the ones used in paint. And it lasts 12-18 months max. irrespective of whatever the product or installer promises.

4. I used Motolabs/Guy Car Steamer (Haralur Road) and am fully satisfied with the professional work done and support.

5. I would advise you to stay away from Garware/3M for films. I used Stek (US brand imported to India). They have 5 year "no question asked" discolour and peel off warranty.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by sizz28

Hi folks,
I am taking delivery of Volkswagen Virtus Edge edition (pearl black colour) this week.
1. Is it a good idea to get PPF on bumpers? Would it cause a colour difference between bumpers & rest of the body?
2. Is there any difference between Graphene coating vs Ceramic?
3. Should I get any treatment for windshield and rear glass?
4. Please recommend good vendors for getting these done in Bangalore (preferably in HSR, Koramangala area). So far I have noted Esperto and Feynlab.
5. What brand and product should I consider for both ceramic & ppf? for PPF I have heard about Garware brand multiple times in this forum. While for ceramic coating I have noted carpro.

Congratulations on the black Virtus!

1) Read post #569 here if you want an in depth review of ceramic vs PPF paint protection- https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...ml#post5585340 (Paint Protection Film (PPF))

Don’t get partial PPF, the increased optical distortion (also called orange peel) inherent with PPF will be very much noticeable wherever the PPF sections meet the bare paint. There will also be a colour difference as the film ages and yellows and the bare paint does not. Putting ceramic over PPF does not stop the yellowing. When you do the entire car, it still yellows but we lose any point of reference so it’s slightly less noticeable.

Also, newer, thicker ceramic coatings can absorb upto 15-20 microns of abrasion before your paint is impacted. Your factory clearcoat is around 50-55 microns for reference on most mass produced cars. Light scuffs and abrasions can be polished out/spot corrected and the coating reapplied without thinning out factory paint.

2) Graphene is mostly a marketing buzzword with no noticeable benefit over a high quality ceramic coating. It’s a 99.9% ceramic base with an infinitesimally small graphene additive. Proven further by the fact that none of the big name ceramic brands even bother offering a graphene variant in their line up.

There are many of different types of coatings that fall under the ceramic umbrella, from silicone dioxide (SiO2), polysiloxanes, titanium dioxide (TiO2), silicone carbide (SiC) and more. If you want to read more- https://siramicdetail.com/whats-the-...ramic-coating/

3) Yes, put a ceramic coating on all your glasses, greatly improves visibility, almost eliminates wiper usage (which eliminates wiper induced scratches), makes cleaning bugs off the windshield a breeze.

4) Feynlab is a known high quality coating in the industry, still check the installer before handing over your car. I cannot comment on Bangalore as I’m in Gurgaon. Make sure you go with their Heal+ variant if you want the full self healing performance.

5) For PPF good brands include Expel, Stek. For ceramic you should look at Carpro, Gyeon, SystemX, Kamikaze, Modesta, etc. Puris Jade (Quartz Pro, green bottle) is also nice if budget is a concern.

Whichever way you go, don’t let your daily cleaner anywhere near the paint and follow safe contactless washing if you want to maintain the gloss long term. I will add PPF is softer than a coating and needs even more precaution if swirls are to be avoided (applies to self healing films as well.)

[Mr Anderson]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Repaint almost always comes out looking terrible when done by the dealership (all brands including Kia). Matte finishes in particular are even harder to get right, so this should be a last resort.

It’s sad really to see a known brand push nonsense like ceramic coatings can prevent minor scratches, if it wipes off it’s not an abrasion/scratch to begin with.

It’s true a ceramic coating can absorb any damage upto its own thickness, but given ceramic pro uses older tech that needs multiple layers to achieve just a few microns of thickness, this is limited to very fine swirling. Also, even these fine swirls will still be visible, they’ll just be over the coating and not on the paint.

It reminds me of the old days when Ceramic Pro went around setting car hoods on fire claiming their coatings were resistant to fire and very high temperatures (a marketing stunt, as the coating is resistant but the paint underneath is not and will still get damaged.)

Also, you’re getting ripped off at 56k for just a 3 year coating. They should be doing a 7 year+ flagship variant for that much. Pay 30-35k max for glossy paint. Since there is no machine polishing on matte cars, you should ideally be paying much less, the only correction done will be on lights and any glossy black plastic on the outside.

Hi I had a chat with you regarding matte paint sometime back. I have decided to stick to matte paint because i can't find other variants as good looking as the xline one. It just has my heart.

Ill be getting the car in 3-4 days. What do you suggest I do? I have thought of Partial matte ppf on bonnet front bumper and fenders followed by
Complete ceramic coating ( both ppf and non ppf parts). Will there be high visible difference between ppf and non ppf parts of the car. 3m has quoted 27000 for 3 year ceramic and they will tell the charges per sqft tomorrow for ppf.

Thanks in advance. Really looking for your advise.

[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Whichever way you go, don’t let your daily cleaner anywhere near the paint and follow safe contactless washing if you want to maintain the gloss long term.

Recently, I have been exploring paint protection options for my new car and came across a wealth of knowledge on this topic shared in this thread, especially by you! I have ruled out PPF as I understand that it has many more disadvantages as compared to utility, even keeping aside very high cost. I was leaning toward graphene due to convincing marketing hype it enjoys, but thanks to you for enlightening us to stick to traditional ceramic coating itself. However, above comment is really putting me off. A couple of detailers also told me the same. There is no way I will clean the car on my own and pamper it for long. The best I can do is provide the car cleaner microfiber cloths, buckets with grit guards and instruct him to always use two bucket method with clean clothes. But again, there is now way I will really be able to ensure that he does that diligently. In this context, apart from loosing mirror finish due to micro swirls, will a good ceramic coating provide all other benefits in long run like water fobicity, dust repellence, protection or resistance against damages due to chemicals/sunlight/minor scratches (due to increased harness), maintain shine/luster (as opposed to mirror finish) for extended period? My definition of "long run" is 5+ years or at least 3+ years in the worst case.

BTW, another person has suggested a cheaper option of using a DIY ceramic spray from a reputed brand like Turtle Wax or Meguiar's instead of professional coating. The car in question is pearl white Hycross. Please share your opinion on this as well, as an alternative. I am open to spending time and effort for a day or two for this job.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Mr Anderson

Ill be getting the car in 3-4 days. What do you suggest I do? I have thought of Partial matte ppf on bonnet front bumper and fenders followed by
Complete ceramic coating ( both ppf and non ppf parts). Will there be high visible difference between ppf and non ppf parts of the car. 3m has quoted 27000 for 3 year ceramic and they will tell the charges per sqft tomorrow for ppf.

Thanks in advance. Really looking for your advise.

Happy to help. Matte PPF on matte paint is less noticeable than gloss on gloss as reflections are blurry to begin with in a matte finish. But, pay close attention to ensure both your paint and the PPF have similar levels of matte texture. Matte finish varies slightly by mfg and film, some films may be more toward a satin like finish and others may be more dull.

Best way to test this is to place a small piece of film directly over your paint under bright lights, now check the two finishes and observe the overhead light reflections and look for any change in gloss levels.

It will never be a perfect match and upon close inspection you will notice where the film ends and your paint starts. As long as you are okay with this, all good. Try and minimise the amount of disassembly the shop will perform, bumpers in particular are best left attached as once removed you may get gaps and alignment may not be as good as factory fit.

Would suggest looking at better brands than 3M, have you considered Expel, Stek, Llumar?

Originally Posted by santosh.s

Recently, I have been exploring paint protection options for my new car and came across a wealth of knowledge on this topic shared in this thread, especially by you! I have ruled out PPF as I understand that it has many more disadvantages as compared to utility, even keeping aside very high cost.

Thank you. I don’t even count cost as a disadvantage, as long as there’s a benefit. Personally I wouldn’t put PPF on my own cars even if I got it for free as you’re covering up a cars beautiful paintwork with textured plastic that yellows over time. To add, it even reduces the visible flake in metallic paint (little sparkles that one can observe in metallic paints).

Originally Posted by santosh.s

The best I can do is provide the car cleaner microfiber cloths, buckets with grit guards and instruct him to always use two bucket method with clean clothes. But again, there is now way I will really be able to ensure that he does that diligently. In this context, apart from loosing mirror finish due to micro swirls, will a good ceramic coating provide all other benefits in long run like water fobicity, dust repellence, protection or resistance against damages due to chemicals/sunlight/minor scratches (due to increased harness), maintain shine/luster (as opposed to mirror finish) for extended period? My definition of "long run" is 5+ years or at least 3+ years in the worst case.

BTW, another person has suggested a cheaper option of using a DIY ceramic spray from a reputed brand like Turtle Wax or Meguiar's instead of professional coating. The car in question is pearl white Hycross. Please share your opinion on this as well, as an alternative. I am open to spending time and effort for a day or two for this job.

Do not give anything to the cleaner, remove him altogether as no matter what you do he will never follow any of the special instructions as he has too many cars to micro scratch in the morning. This I’m saying from experience, with my own cars and the ones I’ve coated over the years.

You have a few options for contactless rinsing if doing it yourself is not possible:

1) Get your own driver/domestic help to do it with a pressure washer/garden hose + leaf blower. This method is quite idiot proof and does not need any special know how, just ensure they keep at least 12 inches between the pressure washer nozzle and the paint (goes up to 18 inches when using a more powerful machine.)

2) Find the nearest carwash, ensure they have an air compressor/air blower prior to starting. Tell them to spray water thoroughly and then spray air to dry, assuming your car is coated this is enough to remove dust and light contamination. Ensure their pressure washer is making no more than 150 bar/2000 psi, anything above this can damage your paint, every machine has a pressure gauge you can check.

Do not let them use shampoos, or touch the paint as some places use very alkaline shampoos that are unnecessarily hard on the coating and your paint. Even if shampoo is pH neutral they won’t follow the multi mitt method and will wipe the entire car down with a single mitt again causing swirls. So contact wash is best avoided. Ensure they dry thoroughly as hard water will leave spots if not evacuated completely.

Since they’re not using distilled water, for them tap water is free and air is free as well. Labour charges are the only variable cost so you can have this done more than once a week without paying much.

3) Have it done professionally by a detailer/your installer. If going to a new place, ensure they’re doing the contact wash step correctly with multiple mitts and one side per panel with zero hand pressure. Check for staff wearing any sharp jewellery that can scratch like watches, rings, etc. Ask them about their water supply and if water softeners/filters are used.

If you drive a lot/park in the open the first and second options make more sense. If you use the car occasionally and have covered parking or live in a less dusty environment, third one done once a week can also work.

On applying yourself, there are much better brands available than those two. Try Gyeon Cancoat for 6 months+ of good water beading. The differences between this and a pro coating is in the film thickness and durability, a good quality coating won’t require reapplication for many years unlike a diy spray type coating which needs to be reapplied every 6-8 months at best.

Also, a good detailer will make every surface near perfect with machine polishing prior to applying a coating, at home you can follow the same wash + decon + clay steps but machine polishing for improved optical clarity and removing fine swirls that every new car comes with is harder to do yourself unless you’re comfortable with a polisher. Keep in mind all the gloss we perceive any surface to have is largely a result of good polishing to remove any defects, the coating is the cherry on top which adds ~5-10% to it at best.

A coating will retain its hardness and UV/chemical protection even if washed improperly and swirled up. It will however lose its gloss, water repellency and self cleaning ability if scratched up, making the paint look dull and lifeless.

Gloss will not be retained for even 3 weeks, let alone 3-5 years when given to a daily cleaner. Most folks highly underestimate just how abrasive his methods are. It is subjective, to my eyes even after 1 poorly done wash, soft paint will start to show fine swirls. If you’re not looking under bright lights you may take a month to start to notice the loss in gloss but objectively, damage is done within 1 badly done wash.

To illustrate, take any 6-7 year old car that is washed by the daily cleaner and pay attention to the paint edges around the windshield area (A pillar edges). On many of them you’ll see grey lines right on the edge, here the paint has worn off completely and grey primer is visible.

To get to the primer, one has to go through the entire clearcoat (~50-60 microns) + base coat (~20-25 microns). In other words a total of 70-80 microns need to be removed in order to see this, in terms of wetsanding, this is the equivalent of using 1000 grit sandpaper repeatedly. For reference in detailing, anything below 2000 grit is considered very aggressive and 1500 grit is the last resort for very deep scratches.

Following pictures show this-

[Mr Anderson]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Happy to help. Matte PPF on matte paint is less noticeable than gloss on gloss as reflections are blurry to begin with in a matte finish. But, pay close attention to ensure both your paint and the PPF have similar levels of matte texture. Matte finish varies slightly by mfg and film, some films may be more toward a satin like finish and others may be more dull.

Best way to test this is to place a small piece of film directly over your paint under bright lights, now check the two finishes and observe the overhead light reflections and look for any change in gloss levels.

It will never be a perfect match and upon close inspection you will notice where the film ends and your paint starts. As long as you are okay with this, all good. Try and minimise the amount of disassembly the shop will perform, bumpers in particular are best left attached as once removed you may get gaps and alignment may not be as good as factory fit.

Would suggest looking at better brands than 3M, have you considered Expel, Stek, Llumar?

Thank you so much for your reply..

The things is apart from 3M there are no reliable detailers who can be trusted or even be sure of that they will remain in business say 3-4 years down the line when I might be in need to claim my warranty.

There have been a few detailers dealing with stek and lumar along side white lable Chinese brands, opened recently but who know if they have to permanently close down within 1-2 years of starting their business here going by the history of car detailers in my city. 3M has been around for 8 years in my city and atleast gives a peace of mind in that respect.

There is one another car detailing shop that has been around 5 years and doing fairly well and they deal in Avery Dennison ppf with 10 year warranty(priced at 1.85L plus gst). I am not sure how good it is.

And then there is ceramic pro who has been doing, as per justdail, business for 6 years now in my city but their kavaca ppf is exorbitantly priced as well.

Also kia showroom in my city has tie up with 3M for services.

[Sufficient_shop]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Personally I wouldn’t put PPF on my own cars even if I got it for free as you’re covering up a cars beautiful paintwork with textured plastic that yellows over time. To add, it even reduces the visible flake in metallic paint (little sparkles that one can observe in metallic paints).

Thank you for all the knowledge share in this thread. Just to understand better, are you saying ceramic coat is better than PPF? Ceramic won't reduce the visible flake in metallic paint?

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Mr Anderson

Thank you so much for your reply..

The things is apart from 3M there are no reliable detailers who can be trusted or even be sure of that they will remain in business say 3-4 years down the line when I might be in need to claim my warranty.

There is one another car detailing shop that has been around 5 years and doing fairly well and they deal in Avery Dennison ppf with 10 year warranty(priced at 1.85L plus gst). I am not sure how good it is.

And then there is ceramic pro who has been doing, as per justdail, business for 6 years now in my city but their kavaca ppf is exorbitantly priced as well.

Also kia showroom in my city has tie up with 3M for services.

A valid point, if the shops are closing down with that frequency any warranty given is meaningless unless it’s enforced pan India with all certified installers.

Kavaca is one of worst films I’ve tested (as have many others, just search for PPF tests done by big detailing channels on YouTube.) all showed it was one of the first films in the test to start yellowing. It also had poor clarity compared to others.

Avery I’ve not tested personally so cannot comment, the rolls are much cheaper than Expel so that pricing can be negotiated down I’m sure. Check other cars they’ve done and if you’re satisfied go for it.

Don’t get it done from the dealer, if going with 3M, go to the shop directly. Again I’ve no experience with that particular 3M in your city but the Gurgaon ones were not good (none left in fact in my city.)

Originally Posted by Sufficient_shop

Thank you for all the knowledge share in this thread. Just to understand better, are you saying ceramic coat is better than PPF? Ceramic won't reduce the visible flake in metallic paint?

Happy to help. In my opinion, yes much better but if you want a list comparing the two you can check the homepage, it links to post #569 in the PPF thread.

Proper machine polishing followed by a high quality ceramic coating will make the paint pop like nothing else can, amplifying the metallic flake, see below:

[Mr Anderson]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Don’t get it done from the dealer, if going with 3M, go to the shop directly. Again I’ve no experience with that particular 3M in your city but the Gurgaon ones were not good (none left in fact in my city.)

100% the so called 3M guy at the dealership told he would be using GARWARE?? It was a red flag straightaway why would 3M guy use another ppf instead of thier own product.

[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Do not give anything to the cleaner, remove him altogether as no matter what you do he will never follow any of the special instructions as he has too many cars to micro scratch in the morning.
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Following pictures show this-

Thank you for such an insightful explanation and suggestions! It will definitely help a lot in making an informed decision.