[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Sufficient_shop

AJ, are you saying using Jopasu duster can scratch the paint? Is this irrespective of ceramic coating or not?

Irrespective of coating, dragging very abrasive tiny rocks (what dust is essentially) over your paint without any lubrication is a sure shot recipe for swirling and deeper abrasions as well depending on the nature of contamination sitting over the paintwork.

Forget Jopasu, which isn’t that soft to begin with, even the softest, plushest Korean microfibre will scratch as it’s not about the towel or duster, it’s what you’re doing with it on the paint.

Even after ample lubrication with a foam cannon, you still have to keep switching to a fresh side on your mitt/towel when doing the contact wash otherwise you’ll get fine swirls. That’s how sensitive the finish is.

[Sufficient_shop]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Irrespective of coating, dragging very abrasive tiny rocks (what dust is essentially) over your paint without any lubrication is a sure shot recipe for swirling and deeper abrasions as well depending on the nature of contamination sitting over the paintwork.

Forget Jopasu, which isn’t that soft to begin with, even the softest, plushest Korean microfibre will scratch as it’s not about the towel or duster, it’s what you’re doing with it on the paint.

Even after ample lubrication with a foam cannon, you still have to keep switching to a fresh side on your mitt/towel when doing the contact wash otherwise you’ll get fine swirls. That’s how sensitive the finish is.

This is a real eye-opener for me! Thank you, AJ. I'm sorry to be asking this after reading so many messages from you (and others), but I think it's better to ask than assume. So here I go

1. What do you suggest for someone who has booked a Kia Seltos (Sparkling silver) who will be primarily driving in city traffic (Bangalore ) and occassional highway trips? I know you don't like PPF, but would you suggest ceramic coating?

2. I've basement parking available but car can get pretty dirty with Bangalore traffic. Don't think I will have enough time to do car wash myself, but it's clear there's no way to let the usual car wash guy near the car. What's the best option to take care of the car (now that duster is also not an option)?

[ChetanM6]

Originally Posted by 0chaos

Hi, were you able to find any info? I have been offered the same by a delaer called falcon detailing on cmh road

Hi, yes i went ahead with them and its holding pretty good.It's been a few months now and still the water beading is intact. I have reduced the number of washes and I have started washing my car on my own now (instead of the apartment car guy) using waterless method and also only once a week. I guess this is why the water beading effect and shine is still intact.
Attaching some pictures for your reference.

[narayanang76]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Thoroughly pre rinse your paint with a pressure washer prior to ONR, use multiple towels/mitts dipped in ONR, with one towel per panel, work top to bottom with zero pressure if you want to do it safely.

People often confuse rinseless washing with waterless washing, the two are completely different.

Many Thanks AJ56 for patiently responding and sharing your knowledge and experience on this thread. It motivated me to dump the apartment car cleaners and start doing the car cleaning on my own. But the concern on Jopasu duster again was eye opener for me.

Which best Rinse-less ONR products you recommend that’s available in india? Also any Pre-rinse options available? Please suggest. Please note that I don’t have access to pressure washers so need to rely on manual wash with a bucket of water at max.

BTW based on your previous recommendation on the other thread, I got hold of Rag Company 600gsm Eagle Edgeless microfibres towels. However it was strange that GSM wasn’t mentioned anywhere on the packaging, I can only assume that I got the right one (grey colour towels). Any thoughts?

Cheers
narayanang76

[kvk]

Looking for a recommendation for an outfit in Bangalore (preferably Whitefield but any place close by would also do) to do ceramic coating on a new vehicle expected in the next couple of weeks. Thanks very much.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Sufficient_shop

This is a real eye-opener for me! Thank you, AJ.

1. What do you suggest for someone who has booked a Kia Seltos (Sparkling silver) who will be primarily driving in city traffic (Bangalore ) and occassional highway trips? I know you don't like PPF, but would you suggest ceramic coating?

2. I've basement parking available but car can get pretty dirty with Bangalore traffic. Don't think I will have enough time to do car wash myself, but it's clear there's no way to let the usual car wash guy near the car. What's the best option to take care of the car (now that duster is also not an option)?

Hi, always happy to help. Congratulations on the Seltos!

1) Yes, there are of course other ways to protect your paint like traditional waxes and sealants or spray type consumer coatings but none of these are as thick, as durable, or as hydrophobic as a pro grade liquid coating. For heavy traffic, take time to acclimatise to the exterior dimensions of your new car, you should know exactly where your bonnet and fenders end, helps navigate smoothly and safely when everyone around you is cutting into your lane.

Irrespective of what paint protection you have, actually hitting anything will almost always result in the need for a repaint if you want it near perfect again.

PPF is very limited in terms of actually saving paint from traffic scuffs as in the majority of cases there’s a dent as well and that needs a repaint to fix, if you have PPF you pay double as you now have to repaint and replace the film on that panel (in many cases the film costs more than the repaint itself). Also deeper scratches still go through, so again you have to repaint to fix fully and then pay for film again.

For highways keep a large gap between your car and the one in front and you’ll eliminate 90% of any potential rock chips.

2) For starters silver is the most forgiving colour to own and maintain, you probably won’t need rinsing every day, maybe 3-4 times a week depending on use.

To maintain and clean safely, first get it coated from someone you trust or worst case apply a spray on type ceramic coating like Gyeon CanCoat yourself after a wash + IPA wipe. This step will ensure your paint has at least some protection as it comes without any from the factory. It will also make washing and drying a breeze. Now you can either-

a) Buy a pressure washer and leaf blower to rinse and dry the car without doing any contact wash step. This is also known as contactless rinsing and can be done once every 2-3 days depending on use, takes under 15 mins. Next to zero training is needed as there is no direct wiping/contact with the paint, your driver or domestic help can do it very easily.

Every few weeks you will need to do a contact wash with a pH neutral foam shampoo applied with a foam cannon, using buckets with grit guards and soft water preferably.

You can get cordless washers and blowers if access to power and water is limited in your area. The cordless leaf blower doesn’t need anything, just charge and use. For the cordless pressure washer you will need a bucket to draw water from, 1 large bucket is enough for most cars. power is from 18V batteries which you can charge at home.

b) Once a week or whenever you feel its needing a wash, take it to a detailer whom you trust and whose contact washing methods are safe. Things like using multiple mitts with only 1 mitt per panel to prevent cross contamination, softened water, high quality pH nuetral shampoo, thorough pre rinsing with the pressure washer prior to the foam step, washing top to bottom, etc.

Also ensure their pressure washer is not set to anything above 2000 psi/150 bar as that is the max safe pressure that can be used on paint without causing any damage.

If you don’t want the foam wash every week, just go to any carwash nearby any tell them to use water + air without shampoo for contactless rinsing to get the dust off. They most likely won’t have a leaf blower but they should have an air compressor which can be used for the same purpose of drying with air post rinsing.

Do not let them use their own shampoo or wipe the paint as it still has road film on it which can scratch.

Originally Posted by narayanang76

Many Thanks AJ56 for patiently responding and sharing your knowledge and experience on this thread. It motivated me to dump the apartment car cleaners and start doing the car cleaning on my own. But the concern on Jopasu duster again was eye opener for me.

Which best Rinse-less ONR products you recommend that’s available in india? Also any Pre-rinse options available? Please suggest. Please note that I don’t have access to pressure washers so need to rely on manual wash with a bucket of water at max.

BTW based on your previous recommendation on the other thread, I got hold of Rag Company 600gsm Eagle Edgeless microfibres towels. However it was strange that GSM wasn’t mentioned anywhere on the packaging, I can only assume that I got the right one (grey colour towels). Any thoughts?

Cheers
narayanang76

Good that you removed the cleaner, your paint will thank you in the years to come.

Rinseless is not the same as waterless washing, the latter is just another recipe for swirls as you’re using a spray on dirty paint and wiping with a towel. No pressure washer is used in waterless washing (or wiping rather).

Rinseless washing, be it using Optimum no rinse (ONR) solution or any other rinseless concentrate still involves thoroughly pre rinsing the car with a pressure washer, except the shampoo step with a foam cannon, you use multiple towels dipped in ONR solution and wipe panel by panel, just like you would with a foam wash. Again use one towel per panel for safety.

Now instead of rinsing again with a pressure washer, you use an another set of towels to wipe off the residue and you’re done. This last step is what can potentially cause issues if you’re working alone in the open as dust has an opportunity to settle on paint and you’re dry wiping it into the finish as you wipe the residue.

You also need about 15-18 towels to do this safely and effectively, unlike a foam wash where only 7-8 mitts are needed. Rinseless, when done properly as described above actually takes much longer than a contact foam wash and is more dangerous as explained above.

If you’re going through the hassle of pressure washing to pre rinse and following through with a contact wash, would suggest sticking to the foam cannon + air blower over rinseless as it’s safer and faster.

All you need is a bucket of water with a cordless pressure washer, you don’t need access to 220V power, same with a cordless leaf blower, I’ve explained it in the answer above yours. Dewalt makes good ones-

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-RPrt-xs...1AwQoaSBKR-tcI

Avoid the cheap ones as they don’t make enough pressure and don’t last more than a few months.

TRC towels have the GSM number in the name, so eagle edgeless 450 stands for 450 gsm, 600 at the end means 600 gsm and so on. Yes most likely you got genuine ones, they should look like the pictures on Amazon or wherever you ordered from.

[Revvatron]

Is ceramic coating recommended only for newly purchased cars or is it ok to go ahead for a year old car as well. The car is still shiny and good but since it has dark color(starry night : Hyundai I20) am concerned that it won't age well. I do wash it every week spending more than an hour with rinseless method but the dark color gathers dust immediately within seconds. Although am exploring the choice of waxing my car on my own using the products because it will be cheaper overall than ceramic process.
I wouldn't be this concerned with light colors like red/silver/white because the dust gathered isn't that visible compared to dark colors because the best part of dark blue/black colors are them being spotless and shiny.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Like paper, the weight/area measure for towels is just an indication of thickness. For some things, thin and light is fine. For others, seep pile and weight is more appropriate. Compare, for instance, glass cleaning with buffing.

How to tell quality of microfibre? By the feel.

For general cleaning, the real magic of microfibre is that, as well as removing grease, it pulls the dirt out of micro scratches. Use it in the kitchen. Do not soak it! Use minimal water; I just lay it on the wet surface of the empty sink. Now clean your worktop, without any detergent or cleaner!*

The feel. I have never found the right words for it, but, at least when it is new, you can feel this effect on your finger tips. a kind of grabbing effect. Compare a smooth edge to a saw blade. Exaggerated thousands of times, the microfibre will be like the saw blade. It is not just that the fibres are small, but that that they have micro serrations.


*NB: I m not suggesting that one should use any cloth almost-dry on car paintwork. Although, maybe yes for some interior surfaces.

[Wohroy]

Ceramic coating for my Volkswagen Virtus GT Plus

I had a great experience with Koch-Chemie C0.02 Ceramic Coating at the Washing Culture detailer in Andheri West, Mumbai, for my Volkswagen Virtus. I had checked out five detailers within a 10-kilometre radius of my home and compared their a. rating/feedback on Google, b. quote, c. materials used for coating, and d. warranty. Most of the detailers use unbranded silicon-based products, claiming that foreign ceramic coating solutions do not work in an Indian climate! In India, many detailers import SiO2 solutions from China/SE Asia in generic containers and experiment with the correct concentration and number of layers. Furthermore, there is absolutely no standard rulebook as to how many coats are actually required to get lasting protection; this is often determined by the negotiated price and, boy-o-boy, how informed the customer is! Of the two detailers who use branded products, I decided to entrust my car to the Washing Culture guys for the German-branded Koch-chemie solutions. The coating came with a 5-year warranty.

On the day of the appointment when I arrived at the Washing Culture’s Andheri West workshop, I was impressed by the facility's interiors (and not by the exterior), their customer-connect, and the attention to detail they put into every aspect of their work. The staff was knowledgeable and friendly, and they took the time to explain the entire process to me before beginning. On the previous day of my schedule, they had confirmed my booking and ordered the Koch-chemie products, Ceramic Allround C0.02 and Spray Sealant S0.02. For the pre-ceramic steps, they used Malco’s Epic Wash. Allround C0.02 is a cyclosilazane, silaxane, and silicone-based ceramic coating solution. I had requested that Sooraj, the proprietor, and Kalpesh, the chief technical person, inform me before opening the C0.02 solution bottle, and they readily agreed.

I was there throughout the 3-hour-long C0.02 application process and was impressed with the meticulousness with which their team approached their job. They used professional-grade applicator pads that came with the Koch-chemie solutions package to ensure an even and smooth application. Once the ceramic coating was applied to all the surfaces, they allowed it to cure overnight. This curing process is essential for the coating to bond effectively with the paint and create a durable shield against the elements.

The next day, I could not be physically there at the workshop, but Kalpesh took video snippets of the S0.02 spray sealant (top coat) application process and sent me those in real-time. When I arrived for the delivery 6 hours after the top-coat application, I felt my car's finish looked deep and glossy, with a level of shine that was as per my expectations. They also demonstrated the hydrophobic properties of the coating by spraying water on the car.

As recommended, I did not wash the car for the next 8 days for the coats to settle well, but I used the car for my routine trips to the office (70 km/day). On day 9, when I water-washed the car, I felt the water roll-off was a bit deficient on the central part of the bonnet. I contacted Washing Culture, and they readily agreed to inspect the car. After inspection, Kalpesh felt likewise and decided to reapply the coats on the bonnet as the rest of the car’s coating was perfect. The recoating and curing under IR were done over the next 1.5 days. Possible reason (and this might benefit my fellow members here): The Virtus and the Slavia do not have insulation under the hood, and hence the bonnet heats up significantly during and after long drives. If one drives the car for a long period immediately after a ceramic coat (settling time is generally 7 to 9 days), there are chances that the top coat might wear off in patches. Please be aware of this.

[benbsb29]

Water beading effect on my car after a drive in the rains this morning. Coating was applied in mid June.

[lrn123]

Hey everyone, I wanted some advice regarding my ceramic coated Ather 450x.

The scooter is completely coated. However, due to poor headlight sealing, the headlight has to be replaced. Now my question is, am I liable to get any compensation to recoat the new headlight from the dealer, or do I have to pay from my pocket again?

Please do advice, thanks in advance.

[Kiyon]

I recently had my new Seltos 2023 GTX+ 7DCT car treated with ceramic coating at ESPERTO Bilekahalli facility, and I am thoroughly impressed with the service provided.

Ojas is very helpful, understands your requirement and provides clarity on how the process is done as well explains what comes with the package that you can opt for. The team does have a good level of professionalism and expertise. They use Drexler graphene coating, multiple layers applied along with the layer of top coat ensuring my car received the best possible treatment.


The application process was meticulous, and the attention to detail was commendable. The package I opted for also included applying glass coating and treating some portions of the interior plastic and seats, enhancing the overall look and feel of my car. Also PPF was used for Side view mirrors and door handle inside area, door edges prone for scratches.

Customer Service is very good, car was parked inside and taken care of. I personally dropped my car to the place and the work was completed earlier than the time i was promised for.

Post service Esperto would provide 3 maintenance coat on 18 month cycle for the platinum package I have opted for.
5 Years warranty for minor scratches , paint fade and hydrophobic effect.

Along with this the team at Esperto is very open for getting top coats once in every 6 months with nominal car wash charges..

Long-Term Effect (Awaiting)

While it's too early to comment on the long-term effects of the ceramic coating, I am optimistic about its durability and protective properties. As the months and years pass, I am looking forward to seeing how well the coating holds up against the elements and preserves the showroom shine of my car.

Overall Experience: ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

In conclusion, I am very satisfied with my experience at this facility. The professionalism, attention to detail, and use of high-quality products have left positive impression. I would recommend this service to anyone looking to protect their vehicle and enhance its aesthetic appeal.

I will update my review in the future to provide a comprehensive perspective on the coating's effectiveness.

[arcanec]

I've booked a Seltos and exploring the possibility (read: need) of a doing a ceramic coating. I don't care too much about the mirror-finish gloss that a ceramic coating imparts; in fact, I'd prefer a more matte look but that's secondary. My goal with the ceramic coating is to protect against minor nicks and scratches.

Reached out to Esperto and Detailing Mafia and got wildly different prices.
- Esperto: 3 layers 9H Drexler ceramic coating with 1 yr warranty @ 31k (GST excl.)
- DM: 10 micron 10H SAM coating using Labocosmetica with a 2 yr warranty (GST incl.)

In my limited research on here I've come across Drexler but haven't heard about labocosmetica. Does anyone know about it? If so, is the Drexler coating from Esperto worth almost double the price?

Also, Esperto's service mentions deep cleaning of the interior and exterior, claying, paint polishing to remove swirls etc and they recommend a 4 day curing period during which the car shouldn't be washed. Now I've seen a lot of recommendations about getting a ceramic coating done as early as possible with a new car but if they're offering all these services and require a curing period, does it make more sense to hold off for about a month? I'll be headed out of town for a week then and can peacefully let the car sit covered up for that period. Does being covered up merely slow the curing process or does it inhibit it completely?

[haridsv]

Anyone has experience with the Wurth ceramic painting offered by Honda dealers? It comes with 3yr warranty with 6 free coupons for reboosting (?) every 6 months. I don't know what they actually do, but by searching for "boost" in this thread, I found some reference (The Ceramic Coating Thread) to cleaning followed by a reapplication of the top layer. I am attaching the brochure that they sent me.

Ceramic Coating Brochure.pdf

[haridsv]

Originally Posted by haridsv

Anyone has experience with the Wurth ceramic painting offered by Honda dealers? It comes with 3yr warranty with 6 free coupons for reboosting.

Talked to the specific guy who knows more about this and learned that these are not free coupons, but rather discount coupons. They give 6 coupons to be used with in a 3yr period to get boosting done for Rs.2000 instead of their regular charge of Rs.14000. There is non specific warranty as such, the previous guy was talking BS.