Team-BHP > Team-BHP Advice > On modifying a car


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st December 2018, 11:55   #5146
Senior - BHPian
 
Captain Slow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,342
Thanked: 895 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpian View Post
Hi Guys,
What should be the ideal oil drain period for Motul 8100 Xcess 5W40 for sx4 ddis?
My car has a daily city and highway running of 140 kilometres and its remapped as well.
Would 7k oil replacement be too long? I surely do not want to stretch it to 10k. I am fine with frequent oil replacement till the time the engine stays in good health.

7k should be fine, please keep an eye on the oil levels say every 2,000 km,
Captain Slow is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 08:02   #5147
Senior - BHPian
 
dailydriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: KA - IND
Posts: 1,059
Thanked: 3,418 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have discussed a part of this issue with Leoshashi over PM and have been guided well. Taking it up here so that the issue might be of help to others in similar situation.

My Zen Estilo (K series) has run 57k since Jan 2011. It has always been serviced in time, at one year intervals, irrespective of the distance covered. Once every two years, it has also seen replacement of all fluids.

Having barely covered 7k in the last one year, I am about to go for another service this month. I am planning to use Liquid Moly Engine Flush before draining the current oil and later Liqui Moly Oil Treatment mixed with the fresh oil. Total Quartz SMC 5W30 has been used throughout and I will continue with the same this time too. In addition (off topic for this thread), I will also be using 3M Throttle Plate and Intake Cleaner and Liqui Moly Injector Cleaner too to take care of the gunk that might have accumulated over the past eight years.

With all these, I am hoping to give a fresh lease of life to my steed.

Would appreciate comments on the course of action. Am I overkilling it?
dailydriver is offline  
Old 20th January 2019, 08:14   #5148
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: India
Posts: 3,976
Thanked: 25,487 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
Am I overkilling it?
I won't recommend using the flush if oil changes have been done religiously as you say. Rest everything is fine. Flush is something which may produce negative results, others are mostly in the neutral to positive results category, hence no harm in trying them out.

Regards,
Shashi
Leoshashi is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 09:17   #5149
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,663
Thanked: 5,613 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
I won't recommend using the flush if oil changes have been done religiously as you say. Rest everything is fine. Flush is something which may produce negative results, others are mostly in the neutral to positive results category, hence no harm in trying them out.

Regards,
Shashi
They are all snake oil though. It won't do your car any harm but won't do much good either. The Liqui Moly shareholders will certainly get some value added to their stock by this behavior so that's a benefit for them despite your wallet getting needlessly thinner.

That reminds me, I will now consider investing in them.

If your car is switching from a long diet of mineral to a synthetic, flush once. Don't use engine oil additives in particular, any quality engine oil already comes with a substantial additive package. Or just fill semi synthetic with a good additive package like Shell HX5 / HX7 once and run your car for 3-4K km before you move to a full synthetic.

Last edited by hserus : 20th January 2019 at 09:39.
hserus is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 09:29   #5150
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,907
Thanked: 4,179 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by dailydriver View Post
With all these, I am hoping to give a fresh lease of life to my steed. Would appreciate comments on the course of action. Am I overkilling it?
Since you've been changing oils and fluids at regular intervals you don't need the engine flush. Stay away from it, please. Contrary to what you might believe an engine flush is an exception, not a rule. It may even create problems.

You can use the injector cleaner regularly at every 3-5K kms if you find the car misfiring or if the idling is rough and uneven. And the TB cleaner at about 20K km intervals IF necessary. Most of these treatments are overkill and NOT required! The only thing you need to do to keep your car in tip top shape is change engine oil and transmission oil regularly at recommended intervals. And yeah, for safety's sake, a brake fluid flush every 2-3 years. That will also bleed the brakes in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
That reminds me, I will now consider investing in them.
LOL!!

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th January 2019 at 09:32. Reason: added reply
R2D2 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 09:35   #5151
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,663
Thanked: 5,613 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You can use the injector cleaner regularly at every 3-5K kms if you find the car misfiring or if the idling is rough and uneven. And the TB cleaner at about 20K km intervals IF necessary. Most of these treatments are overkill and NOT required! The only thing you need to do to keep your car in tip top shape is change engine oil and transmission oil regularly at recommended intervals. And yeah, for safety's sake, a brake fluid flush every 2-3 years. That will also bleed the brakes in the process
Drain and replace brake fluid and gear lube every four years / 40k km is there in about every car manual.

If your injectors are starting to sound rough it just means you need to be more regular with oil changes. The manufacturer specified interval of 10k or even 20k km is often grossly excessive. Just changing some 1500 km before does wonders.

If your injector has issues, using injector cleaner is a waste, youíll need the injectors stripped and professionally cleaned out or more likely replaced and thatís expensive. So donít delay oil changes.
hserus is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 09:36   #5152
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Leoshashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: India
Posts: 3,976
Thanked: 25,487 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
They are all snake oil though. It won't do your car any harm but won't do much good either.
True! While the LM additives result in some noticeable changes in engine smoothness and behaviour, I am not sure if they truly benefit the engine or not. I have used the most expensive additive LM has to offer, Ceratec, and while the smoothness was evident, it's not that the car performs horrible without it. Used it once for curiosity sake, but now I am happy with the pure oil.

Also some of these additives alter the oil thickness a bit hence I am not a big fan of them. Maybe this is why the engine vibrations get dampened. What's the point of purchasing a thin oil and then altering its flow characteristics. Again, it's all unproven theory.

This is why I had mentioned in my last post that other stuffs won't harm your engine atleast if they don't do any good.

BHPian Dailydriver had already finalised the additive and had pinged me regarding quantity and dosage, to which I replied based on my experience:

ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil-20190120_092321.jpg

Regards,
Shashi
Leoshashi is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 09:46   #5153
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,907
Thanked: 4,179 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Drain and replace brake fluid and gear lube every four years / 40k km is there in about every car manual.
Some cars have so called 'lifetime' GB lube. I'd replace it every 4-5 years anyway. But TKM have a frightfully expensive gear lube...they quote 3500-4000 per LITRE. Gosh!! Strangely no recommendation for brake fluid flush.

Quote:
If your injectors are starting to sound rough it just means you need to be more regular with oil changes. The manufacturer specified interval of 10k or even 20k km is often grossly excessive. Just changing some 1500 km before does wonders.
Actually, injectors getting clogged has more to do with the quality of fuel than engine oil. At least in petrol engines.

Quote:
If your injector has issues, using injector cleaner is a waste, you’ll need the injectors stripped and professionally cleaned out or more likely replaced and that’s expensive. So don’t delay oil changes.
True. Injector cleaner has limited effect and beyond a point the parts will require uninstallation and professional cleaning.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 24th January 2019 at 22:04. Reason: changed 4000K to 4000
R2D2 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 10:11   #5154
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,663
Thanked: 5,613 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Some cars have so called 'lifetime' GB lube. I'd replace it every 4-5 years anyway. But TKM have a frightfully expensive gear lube...they quote 3500-4000K per LITRE. Gosh!! Strangely no recommendation for brake fluid flush.
As for the injectors a regular diet of shell premium (or reliance / essar) once every three or four fills and regular highway runs seems to help.

TKM wants an API GL5 75w85. Amsoil has a 75w90 GL5 that is maybe a bit cheaper. Most of the other gear oils sold in India are GL4 like Shell Spirax or even GL3. Amsoil - 1400 for a quart (948 ml) Amsoil 75W-90 Long Life Synthetic Gear Oil https://www.amazon.in/dp/B019GF06DK/..._00.qCbKWVKRD0

Last edited by hserus : 20th January 2019 at 10:17.
hserus is offline  
Old 20th January 2019, 10:41   #5155
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,907
Thanked: 4,179 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
TKM wants an API GL5 75w85. Amsoil has a 75w90 GL5 that is maybe a bit cheaper. Most of the other gear oils sold in India are GL4 like Shell Spirax or even GL3. Amsoil - 1400 for a quart (948 ml) Amsoil 75W-90 Long Life Synthetic Gear Oil
Actually, it's either GL4 or GL5 for my car. But I err on the side of caution and prefer GL4 as GL5 oils have higher sulphur content which can affect brass synchronizers over a period of time leading to hard gear shifts. I am currently using LM's 75W-90 GL4+ fully synthetic lube which is yellow metal safe according to LM Germany and recommended for other cars that require GL4 or GL4+.

So TKM's GL5 is mostly for differentials and GL4 in gearboxes for e.g. in the Fortuner or Innova. For FWD trans-axle cars like the Corolla and other sedans like the Etios they'd probably recommend GL4. Strangely their OEM lube has no specs mentioned on it.

The Amsoil 75W-90 is GL5. Please do not use in GBs requiring GL4.

PS - Redline synthetic lubes are now available in India. Their MT 90 GL4 synthetic is available on Amazon and at their distributor's site "air 90 dot com". Please remove spaces from the web address.

Mods please make the correction as the post is now past the editing window. There's a typo in my previous message, please read that as Rs 3500-4000 not "3500-4000K".

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th January 2019 at 10:48. Reason: added PS
R2D2 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 10:51   #5156
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,663
Thanked: 5,613 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Amsoil's gear lube above is GL5 MT1 - which makes it suitable for manual transmissions where plain GL5 isn't fit for the purpose.

Please double check as Toyota issued a bulletin some years back standardizing on this fluid.
hserus is offline  
Old 20th January 2019, 11:18   #5157
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,907
Thanked: 4,179 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Amsoil's gear lube above is GL5 MT1 - which makes it suitable for manual transmissions where plain GL5 isn't fit for the purpose.
Please double check as Toyota issued a bulletin some years back standardizing on this fluid.
I am not sure about a TB from Toyota and if they did issue one it probably was done after making design and/or metal alloy changes to the GB synchronizer rings.

For old cars like mine (she's a Q3 2008 manufacture) having 5 speed transmissions that probably date back anywhere between the late 90s to mid 2Ks it's probably safer to stick with GL4. There have been plenty of reports of busted synchronizers across different models on Toyota forums with GL5. Toyota claims one can use either GL4 or GL5 in the trannys and that applies to my car too, it's in the owners manual. But a GB repair is an expensive proposition so I'm just sticking to GL4 to be on the safe side.
R2D2 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 20th January 2019, 11:25   #5158
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,663
Thanked: 5,613 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Fair enough. If you do this at a Toyota dealership just check that their gear lube is GL5 MT1 - that has additives that make it safe to use on bronze gear shifts.
hserus is offline  
Old 20th January 2019, 11:49   #5159
Senior - BHPian
 
dailydriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: KA - IND
Posts: 1,059
Thanked: 3,418 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

@Leoshashi, hserus and R2D2, thanks for chipping in.

Although I have ordered all the aforementioned items from amazon.in, I am yet to take the final plunge regarding using them. In the 8+ years of owning the car, I have never used any of these as I had no issues with pickup, mileage or engine smoothness.

Of late, say in the last 3-4 months, I can sense extra vibrations during idle; rpm lingering around 1000. Fuel efficiency too appears to have gone down by 10-15%. There was one particular episode where, in the narrow rural lanes near Thirthahalli, the car seemed to have lost all enthusiasm to move forward. I had, in that instance, filled up petrol from a pump that I normally avoid. Things came to normal after the next tankful of petrol from my regular bunk. So, I am assuming it was a case of fuel poisoning .

A few words about my car usage won't be out of place here. I start my car in the morning and after driving it for 3.5km in less than 10 minutes, I switch it off. The same 3.5km cycle is repeated thrice more on any typical working day. The oil, I suspect, doesn't get enough time to warm up. Of the 57k on the odo, I must have done the exact same thing for at least 45k. The future isn't likely to be any different.

Therefore, I was thinking of pampering the engine with some cleaners and revitalizers. The idea of shifting to fully synthetic oil has anyway been shelved because of low annual running.

Specific to this thread, I first zeroed in on the Liqui Moly Oil Treatment as it promised to smoothen the engine movements by creating a
Quote:
heavy-duty lubricant film on all frictioning and sliding metal surfaces
Then came the Liqui Moly Flush as I thought there would be something at least in the engine that this can purge. I am of course aware that this could in fact swallow more than is necessary and may result in opening up of hitherto sealed gaps. This gave rise to doubts and hence the query.
dailydriver is offline  
Old 20th January 2019, 13:04   #5160
BHPian
 
Rshrey22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Delhi
Posts: 256
Thanked: 427 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

One of the reasons for idling vibrations, power loss and low efficiency is weak/broken engine mounts. My FNG mechanic told me that MS uses weaker engine mounts and prone to failure in the first 25k kms only.

The thing is that as you accelerate, the engine rather than propelling the car forward, vibrates on loose mounts first for some time then transfers power to the wheels, so the engine's energy is wasted in the form of vibrations. Your car has covered 50k kms, kindly get the engine mounts inspected. My waggy with k10 had similar problems and replacing engine mounts helped big time. Throttle response became sharper, and the car was instantly on the move without a 2 second gap as it earlier had because it was bouncing on its broken mounts.

Last edited by Rshrey22 : 20th January 2019 at 13:09.
Rshrey22 is offline   (4) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks