[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by payeng

I am looking to get one 2 yrs post launch... invariably every brand takes sometime to iron out initial niggles

What do you ride now? When (as in how many years after launch) did you buy your current ride?

Regards
Sutripta

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

What do you ride now? When (as in how many years after launch) did you buy your current ride?

Regards
Sutripta

1. 2015- Current ride is an Impulse.. bought in Jan 2015.. from a relative who was at Hero RnD.. he had got it dor me from a company auction. this bike is from 2011 batch i. e from the first batches

Got a very good deal for it.. 35k. Piston-cylinder kit and new clutch plates changed for no additional costs.. Awesome bike but has a chronic Impulse issue of the handle bar cone set coming loose.. spares availability is also pathetic..

but I was cognizant of the issues with the Impulse before getting it and was ready for it as I got the bike for a good deal

2. 2007- Pulsar 220 Fi variant - from first batch.. had its share of teething issues

3. 1999- Hero Honda CBZ- from the initial batches... wasn't the best experience of owning the bike.. was most uncharacteristic as a Honda


So ownership experiences of 3 bikes from the first batches :-)

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by payeng

3. 1999- Hero Honda CBZ- from the initial batches... wasn't the best experience of owning the bike.. was most uncharacteristic as a Honda

I own a 2001 Version in stock condition. Still the best bike with respect to riding position i have owned and also much lesser maintainence (I owned a 1999 model as well earlier) The CS 400 riding positing looks similar with not too much lean forward, nor too much Unicorn-Ish.

Any estimate on pricing of this? I think Bajaj will not position this above the RE, they have been very aggressive on pricing for the Pulsors (cheaper than a CBZ, 220 being cheaper than Karizma, Avengers beings well priced as well.) If Bajaj can keep this below an RE, I will book the bike within a day of launch.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

I think Bajaj will not position this above the RE, they have been very aggressive on pricing for the Pulsors (cheaper than a CBZ, 220 being cheaper than Karizma, Avengers beings well priced as well.)

Please check the current prices of the Karizma R and Pulsar 220F.

Karizma R: Rs 84,550 (Ex-Showroom Delhi)
Pulsar 220F: Rs. 88,927 (Ex-Showroom Delhi)

Funny how Perception works.. Eh? In 2016, the Pulsar 220F is actually more expensive than the Karizma R.

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

If Bajaj can keep this below an RE, I will book the bike within a day of launch.

Beats me to know, why should the RE's should cost more than the VS400???

>> Does any of the RE's have a Modern Liquid Cooled Engine?
>> Does any of the RE's have a Modern Perimeter Frame?
>> Does any of the RE's have Life saving ABS?
>> Does any of the RE's at least have TUBELESS TYRES?

(OK the RE 500 Classic/Thunderbird/Continental GT have EFi)

>> Can any RE be ridden for 120-130 kmph, relaxed for sustained periods of time?


According to me the VS400 should ideally cost more than the costliest RE.. but then I trust Mr. Bajaj to have a mind of his own.


P.S: Am not even talking about India's first LED Headlamp

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by payeng

Please check the current prices of the Karizma R and Pulsar 220F.

Karizma R: Rs 84,550 (Ex-Showroom Delhi)
Pulsar 220F: Rs. 88,927 (Ex-Showroom Delhi)

Funny how Perception works.. Eh? In 2016, the Pulsar 220F is actually more expensive than the Karizma R.

http://www.heromotocorp.com/en-in/th...ma-zmr-44.html

Please check the Karizma ZMR Pricing on the official website. Shows INR 106,150 in Delhi.

The answer to why does Bajaj need to price this below RE is "Brand". Thats all that matters. Pricing is not a sumation of cost price of all product features plus margin. Pricing factors in target customer segment, Target products and target geographies.

For Bajaj:
Target Customer Segment: Customers in the age group of 25-35 with a need for a weekend Tourer with relaxed riding posture
Target Products: RE & CBR 250. Duke customers are not really a target for this bike I think.
Target Geographies: Tier 1 & Tier 2. Tier 2 being a very important segment as Bajaj has traditionally been a strong brand there. Any product which has Tier 2 targeting will be priced reasonably.

** The above is my analysis of the segment. The team would have definitely done a Market Research to understand the same.

Also positioned below RE doesnt mean it will be very very cheap either (C350 being around 130)

[farhadtarapore]

Originally Posted by payeng

Beats me to know, why should the RE's should cost more than the VS400???

>> Does any of the RE's have a Modern Liquid Cooled Engine?
>> Does any of the RE's have a Modern Perimeter Frame?
>> Does any of the RE's have Life saving ABS?
>> Does any of the RE's at least have TUBELESS TYRES?

You're assuming that tubeless tyres are better than tubed tyres on spoked rims. Might be for the kind of usage that one has. But you definitely cannot generalize that.

Also my RE's 500 cc engine doesn't generate as much heat as a duke 390's does. So I believe that "modern" liquid cooling is really not necessary. Compression ratios are vastly different and REs aren't really great on hp.

ABS - yes, I do agree. That should be a must on REs. I have fishtailed a lot of times and the brakes are not confidence inspiring. The rear disc locks up a lot of the time - in panic braking, one may not always recall to press the rear brake lightly.

Originally Posted by payeng

>> Can any RE be ridden for 120-130 kmph, relaxed for sustained periods of time?

P.S: Am not even talking about India's first LED Headlamp

I can't even push my bike above 110kmph but that's a different problem. About the LED headlamp, I'm sure once they become commonplace, a lot of RE users will hack their REs to fit those LEDs there.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

http://www.heromotocorp.com/en-in/th...ma-zmr-44.html

Please check the Karizma ZMR Pricing on the official website. Shows INR 106,150 in Delhi.

My friend, the ZMR is a Fuel Injected variant..

.. its the Carbureted Karizma R which is the variant that is compared with the Pulsar 220F (which is of course carbureted)

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

The answer to why does Bajaj need to price this below RE is "Brand". Thats all that matters.

You are absolutely right.. basically its how much the customer is willing to pay for the product regardless of what goes in the product.


Let the VS come on the roads.. it it appears to be more premium than the REs to the customer.. Bajaj will have the leverage to price it more than the RE's.. the big question would be how the VS will appear on the Road to the customer.

Personally I know for sure that the VS is a much more modern bike with a long list of modern features than any RE and hence deserves a higher price tag.

Originally Posted by farhadtarapore

You're assuming that tubeless tyres are better than tubed tyres on spoked rims. Might be for the kind of usage that one has. But you definitely cannot generalize that.

One won't have to push the bike / be stranded in case of a puncture in case of a Tubeless Tyre... That's a BIG BENEFIT for any rider..

.. am not even mentioning about safety in case of a flat tyre at high speeds.

Originally Posted by farhadtarapore

ABS - yes, I do agree. That should be a must on REs.

I have fishtailed a lot of times and the brakes are not confidence inspiring. The rear disc locks up a lot of the time - in panic braking, one may not always recall to press the rear brake lightly.

You need to start using the front brake more than the rear my friend (which is the correct way of braking on a motorcycle) - this will solve the issue of the rear wheel locking.

But yes in case of a front wheel lock.. one needs ABS since a front wheel lock is very difficult to recover from


But Even with ABS one has to remember -

One still has to learn for to brake properly (for maximum braking effectiveness): One has to apply the Front Brakes aren't used more than the rear brake.

ABS is no Braking AID - It's just a safety feature to eliminate accidental wheel locks.

[ashis89]

I always find people, in general, having very similar perception towards Bajaj and Tata Motors. The perceptions are: unreliable, niggle-prone, very good or even class-leading features, VFM but should always be priced significantly lower than the segment. Even if the product has excellent initial reviews, mouth watering features and price making it VFM, people still try not to believe in the product. This reminds of the fairy-tale story, that of the jackal and the sour grapes. Only difference is the people can afford the product(while jackal couldn't reach the grapes).

One look at the Tiago thread would describe what I mean by the above observations.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by ashis89

I always find people, in general, having very similar perception towards Bajaj and Tata Motors. The perceptions are: unreliable, niggle-prone, very good or even class-leading features, VFM but should always be priced significantly lower than the segment.

Even if the product has excellent initial reviews, mouth watering features and price making it VFM, people still try not to believe in the product.

This reminds of the fairy-tale story, that of the jackal and the sour grapes. Only difference is the people can afford the product(while jackal couldn't reach the grapes).

One look at the Tiago thread would describe what I mean by the above observations.

Very True.

But it's not just about perception of reliability or quality.. Everybody knows how reliable are RE products.

It's how much a consumer is willing to spend for any particular product and what he is exactly looking from the product. With RE products, according to me the majority (not the ones who are on Team-Bhp) of its customers just want to stand apart from the crowd. And right now RE products give the maximum road presence under Rs. 2 lakhs.

Also unlike the Tiago which is a conventional hatch for Bajaj Auto the VS seems to be starting a completely new segment of motorcycles.. Something like a "Power Cruiser" (Diavel Inspired).. something for which there is no direct option in the existing market.

.. if the VS looks impressive on the Road and manages to stand out.. there would be consumer demand.. proportionate to how the bike appears on the road.


Like I earlier said, right now RE products have the Best Road Presence Per Rupee.. and that according to me is the reason for the current Golden Run for RE.

[farhadtarapore]

Originally Posted by payeng

Like I earlier said, right now RE products have the Best Road Presence Per Rupee.. and that according to me is the reason for the current Golden Run for RE.

Exactly! for under Rs. 2 lakhs, it is a big bike, can comfortably seat rider and pillion, has road presence. I bought it for exactly those reasons. Not at all willing to plonk 8-10 lakhs on a bike, that too on our roads

[Viv3k]

Originally Posted by ashis89

I always find people, in general, having very similar perception towards Bajaj and Tata Motors. The perceptions are: unreliable, niggle-prone, very good or even class-leading features, VFM but should always be priced significantly lower than the segment. Even if the product has excellent initial reviews, mouth watering features and price making it VFM, people still try not to believe in the product. This reminds of the fairy-tale story, that of the jackal and the sour grapes. Only difference is the people can afford the product(while jackal couldn't reach the grapes).

One look at the Tiago thread would describe what I mean by the above observations.

I had the same perception when I purchased my previous motorcycle. I took a test drive of D200 but it quickly became evident that my wifey will not like to tour on that pillion seat (or what remains of it). At that point, I either had to go with CBR250 or the NS200 and I purchased the latter based on the nakedness of the bike though I was scared of the reliability and service.

However, unlike all other pulsars, NS was a big leap in reliability, power delivery and styling. To top it off, it has one of the best biking clubs around the country and it was a joy to ride in groups. My only gripe has been the horribly placed fuel control knob and the lack of ABS.

Now, I have my home ministry's approval for an upgrade to a kwacker and I will soon be booking one but I still believe the NS was the best product from Bajaj's stable.

[praful]

Originally Posted by payeng

V
.. if the VS looks impressive on the Road and manages to stand out..

That is a big question mark at the moment, and it is not helping that at the moment the recent spy shots show a relatively smaller than average male on the bike.

By that reference even my 220 looks like a big bike

Still waiting to see if the bike is Fi or not, till now nothing is confirmed from whatever rumor reports have been released. Even if it is Fi, what will need to be seen is if its the Duke type closed loop (more expensive) or 220 type open loop (cheaper).

[payeng]

Originally Posted by praful

Still waiting to see if the bike is Fi or not, till now nothing is confirmed from whatever rumor reports have been released.

Even if it is Fi, what will need to be seen is if its the Duke type closed loop (more expensive) or 220 type open loop (cheaper).

Has to be Fi.. take a look at the spy photo, the fuel reserve knob (found in carbureted models) is not present in the clicked model.



About the kind of Fi.. the Pulsar RS200 gets Closed Loop Fi, would be very surprising if the Flagship Pulsar gets an Open Loop Fi.

[praful]

Originally Posted by payeng

Has to be Fi.. take a look at the spy photo, the fuel reserve knob (found in carbureted models) is not present in the clicked model.

Call me a skeptic, but I'd like to know for sure The picture is not convincing enough!

Originally Posted by payeng

About the kind of Fi.. the Pulsar RS200 gets Closed Loop Fi, would be very surprising if the Flagship Pulsar gets an Open Loop Fi.

Your logic is correct, the RS200 has a closed loop system. Would make no sense to have a open loop setup on the 400 (*if* if the 400 is Fi).

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Viv3k

I had the same perception when I purchased my previous motorcycle.

Now, I have my home ministry's approval for an upgrade to a kwacker and I will soon be booking one but I still believe the NS was the best product from Bajaj's stable.

My last bike was the 5th Bajaj (including the 2 Pulsars) product in our house until I sold it last year to take a temporary retirement from biking. The only other 2 wheelers that we have owned till date was a LML Vespa scooter 25 years ago and an Activa used by my sister currently. I have a feeling that I will come out of hibernation sometime year and will buy the VS as the obvious choice (unless the TD is very disappointing).

Yes I agree the NS was the best Bajaj product till now. I wanted to buy this when I bought my P180. The 45 day waiting period for the NS back then (just 5 days into its launch) put me off and I bought the 180 instead.