[payeng]

Originally Posted by farhadtarapore

They've replaced the beautiful steel trellis frame of KTM with plastic

PLASTIC?? Sir, that a Perimeter Frame (made out of metal, also called as Beam Frame) not Plastic. The kind of frame that is found on all MotoGP bikes.


In my personal riding experience, I find - The Perimeter frame of the NS200 (that was the first Pulsar to get it) and the Yamaha R15 (first Indian bike to get it) provides better stability in cornering than the Trellis of the KTMs

(Moto GP can't be wrong, I guess. Even Ducati doesn't use Trellis Frames on their Moto GP bike).

[doctorque]

Originally Posted by payeng

PLASTIC?? Sir, that a Perimeter Frame (made out of metal, also called as Beam Frame) not Plastic. The kind of frame that is found on all MotoGP bikes.


In my personal riding experience, I find - The Perimeter frame of the NS200 (that was the first Pulsar to get it) and the Yamaha R15 (first Indian bike to get it) provides better stability in cornering than the Trellis of the KTMs

(Moto GP can't be wrong, I guess. Even Ducati doesn't use Trellis Frames on their Moto GP bike).

My two cents. Sure the Perimeter Frame allows better weight distribution, engine packaging, chassis dynamics opportunities compared to the trellis frame. But when we pit the KTM developed trellis frame (Duke/RC 200) against the Bajaj developed Perimeter Frame (NS200), the KTM's kill not just the bajaj, but every other competitor in India and abroad.

But all that is when outright performance is the only parameter.

According to me the new Bajaj is creating a new segment and should be a more comfortable motorcycle for various INDIAN riding conditions. This one should then have a much wider audience in comparison to the KTM duo. I am really excited about checking this one out in spite of having an RC390 right from the first batch.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by doctorque

MBut when we pit the KTM developed trellis frame (Duke/RC 200) against the Bajaj developed Perimeter Frame (NS200), the KTM's kill not just the bajaj, but every other competitor in India and abroad.

Two Cents from my side now:

That is what the popular perception would be right.. since KTM is "Phoren Maal"?


Even I would have had a similar perception... had I not ridden the R15, NS200 and the KTM 200 Duke.

I find the R15 and NS200 more stable and confidence inspiring (than the 200 Duke) while cornering and especially under panic braking. The kind of composure that the frames of the NS200 and R15 demonstrates makes me smile.

But then that's my personal opinion - Might not be in line with popular perceptions.


Popular perception says that the Pulsar 220 is more powerful and better than the NS200.. same goes with the "Bullet" which probably is the most powerful among desi bikes.



Also might surprise you but the KTM 200/300 Trellis frames were developed in Pune India by the Bajaj RnD.. Designed in Austria but developed in India.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by rahul4321

Sometimes i think if i cant understand myself how can anyone else hope to. Up till now i always thought that if the cs400 has anywhere around 38-40 bhp, that would be okay. 34.5 bhp is almost shaving off 10 bhp from the duke 390. Combine that with a 30 kg higher weight and it suddenly doesnt sound so enticing to me. After waiting for all this time, i think i might just go in for the duke 390 or the Rc390 even though i hate both bikes for the phut phut sound they produce. But it does give the maximum bang for the buck. Ktm- give me a 390. A better sounding exhaust and a slightly bigger fuel tank which can do 250 kilometers and my heart (and my money is yours)

I believe its because the CS400 is tuned to be a cruiserisque motorcycle not a street bike or a race bike. Hence they tuned it in such a way as to reduce peak bhp and torque but give more bhp and torque lower down the rev range. It may be to increase the everyday riding experience and give it long distance cruising ability, may be to do a constant 120kmph with pillion and in greater comfort due to the taller gearing and lower revs. Its only my best guess and we will know surely when the bike is launched. If we recollect both Pulsar and the Eliminator had a 180cc engine but the eliminator was almost a bhp and few nm torque lower than the Pulsar, however it was far more ridable at lower revs.

[landcruiser123]

It looks Mojo-esque from the front.

With a significant reduction in power compared to the KTM Duke/RC 390, there better be some significant decrease in price too.

Who says this can compete with cruisers? Bajaj should really invest in developing a cruiser with the right engine and reliability.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by payeng

That is what the popular perception would be right.. since KTM is "Phoren Maal"?

Feel free to look up phoren vs phoren too. In every class actually. Look up reviews of the desi Katooms taking on phoren competition and coming up on top (only real grouse I ve heard is the budget rear suspension). Or the 690 against its competition, or the Super Duke. Not even going to get into the ADV and off road segment coz it would be just too easy to prove a point

KTM has the magic wand to make bikes flickable in corners and still rock solid stable in straights despite weighing a fraction of a similar bike. Go figure

Originally Posted by payeng

Even I would have had a similar perception... had I not ridden the R15, NS200 and the KTM 200 Duke

The Pulsar is definitely the more comfortable (and MUCH more VFM) option compared to the Duke 200. But outright performance, the Duke is ahead by a big margin. Ya one wouldn't know the difference when simply pottering about lazily, but give it the beans and the difference is immediately apparent

The capability of the 200's chassis should be very very clear here. This very same trellis handles almost twice the power meted out by the 390 without any big tweaks. Yamaha is good no doubt, but the Katoom is on another level IMO

Originally Posted by payeng

Popular perception says that the Pulsar 220 is more powerful and better than the NS200.. same goes with the "Bullet" which probably is the most powerful among desi bikes.

Bullet has a lot of "non performance" related theories floating around. The thump, heavy crank to ride at 30 KPH at top gear (WHY would anyone want to do that is beyond me) etc etc. Never heard that about the Pulsar though. 220 took over the mantle from Karizma a few years ago as an able tourer. There may be nostalgia related stuff surrounding the 220, but the NS beats it hollow in almost every other parameter. Speed, acceleration, cruisability, handling etc.

Originally Posted by payeng

Also might surprise you but the KTM 200/300 Trellis frames were developed in Pune India by the Bajaj RnD.. Designed in Austria but developed in India.

They are manufactured in India; and manufactured very well (including that very beautiful alloy swing arm) but there was no "development" input from Bajaj

[GTO]

Thanks to Anish Kumar for sharing these pics! Caught at an ad shoot in Ladakh.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Look up reviews of the desi Katooms taking on phoren competition..

I have stopped referring to reviews

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

there was no "development" input from Bajaj

Don't be too sure




Thanks GTO for the exclusive pics

[hubolt]

The bike looks so outdated , unlike the pulsar 200, that big silvery part on the side is like a dinosaur bone jutting out , coloured by some archaeologist during the excavation process, it really looks so mojoish , what's happened to bajaj ? Can't believe this is their future flagship.

[farhadtarapore]

Doesn't look different (as in, unique). And no upside-down forks either.

[CGB]

Originally Posted by payeng

Don't be too sure

Dukes are only assembled in india. Engine and gearbox are sent from Austria. There are no design inputs from Bajaj over KTM stakes. It's only the other way around.

As Urban_Nomad pointed out, trellis frame gives excellent feedback in corners and solid in straights. And I dont see any LED headlamps in the bike. Swapped with regular halogen?

[ashis89]

This bike looks like the most beautiful and most purposeful Pulsar ever. There is none of those over the top styling as found on RS200 and has clean, matured styling. I have been a fan of the series, having owned a 150 and 180 at different points in time and having ridden a 135 and a 220 quite extensively. While I was toying with the idea of getting an AS200 or a used NS200, the spy pics of the 400 held me back. And now, I feel it was definitely worth wait.

[Full_Minchingu]

Disclaimer: This came out of my mind as soon as I saw the spy pics, please don't get angry on me, this is my pure personal opinion. Mods please delete it if its not worth it.

I was a huge fan of Pulsar 180DTSi and 220, even now I take a second look if I spot P220 on the streets, where are those guys who created that piece of machines!

Created the image using limited Photoshop tools.

Bajaj Design team head: Guys we need to design a new version of Pulsar and name it as "x"S400 [x being any alphabet].
Bajaj Design team members: I have an idea sirji, please see the below pic for more details:



Bajaj Design team members: There you see our new Pulsar.



Regards,
-Badri

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by Full_Minchingu

Disclaimer: This came out of my mind as soon as I saw the spy pics, please don't get angry on me, this is my pure personal opinion. Mods please delete it if its not worth it.

I was a huge fan of Pulsar 180DTSi and 220, even now I take a second look if I spot P220 on the streets, where are those guys who created that piece of machines!

Created the image using limited Photoshop tools.

Bajaj Design team head: Guys we need to design a new version of Pulsar and name it as "x"S400 [x being any alphabet].
Bajaj Design team members: I have an idea sirji, please see the below pic for more details:

Attachment 1547103

Bajaj Design team members: There you see our new Pulsar.

Attachment 1547104

Regards,
-Badri

I can't really see any similarities between your 'photoshop creation' and vs400. vs400 is entirely based on the concept bike that was unveiled in 2014 Auto Expo but a little toned down for production.

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by Full_Minchingu

Disclaimer: This came out of my mind as soon as I saw the spy pics, please don't get angry on me, this is my pure personal opinion. Mods please delete it if its not worth it.

I was a huge fan of Pulsar 180DTSi and 220, even now I take a second look if I spot P220 on the streets, where are those guys who created that piece of machines!

Created the image using limited Photoshop tools.

Bajaj Design team head: Guys we need to design a new version of Pulsar and name it as "x"S400 [x being any alphabet].
Bajaj Design team members: I have an idea sirji, please see the below pic for more details:

Attachment 1547103

Bajaj Design team members: There you see our new Pulsar.

Attachment 1547104

Regards,
-Badri

You seriously think that the VS400 is anyway close to the mash of 3 bikes you posted?

I've seen it in flesh and it is one of the most good looking bikes from Bajaj. i Neither Gixxer nor RTR 200 can really visually differentiate itself from their smaller or semi faired siblings. They seem to be evolutions of the same old design. Put this Bajaj next to any of its siblings and you will know how instantly it stands out (it is big & bold!!). Just like Mojo, which to me has stand out looks tho it doesn't have any comparable sibling.