[-xplora-]

Originally Posted by m8002?

Creta had a clear positioning(SUV looks with quality interiors). BR-V doesnt. Even in this thread, for features it compared with Brezza, ecosport but for pricing with Creta!

Care to throw some light on the extra "features" and "clear positioning" of Creta vs BR-V except Interiors and AVN (includes revcam/sensors) ? Bear in mind that Creta is almost 1 lac more expensive than BR-V. Here I am only talking about Petrol AT. BR-V looks much better from front than Creta, back of both are fine, its the proportions where Creta looks better, but it is smaller and claustophobic, so do I want a larger vehicle which gives me more comfort or stand outside and look at it all day and think it should have been more SUV proportionate ?

BR-V will trump Creta if same pricing is considered.

Personally, I think even Creta is overpriced and wouldnt buy it but many people dont think so. And Creta/Duster/Terrano prices are so high isnt justification for BR-V to be priced high. Maruti learnt that lesson with S-cross pricing and corrected it soon. Will Honda do it? They already have it priced 20% less than the City in Indonesia...the price point where it rightly fits. Why this special treatment for India?

S-Cross has dated looks, is not positioned by the company as an SUV and does not have an AT. So Maruti reducing price of S-Cross is their own wrong doing. If the same car had better looks SUVish and modern front and 1.6 AT, there was no need to reduce the pricing.

Coming to Indonesia, this has been discussed earlier. Every market is different. In India "SUVish" vehicles command a premium over sedans or hatch-backs of the same category, it is everywhere, but in India it is higher. In Indonesia they do much higher volumes of such form factors vs sedans like city. Plus we do not know their taxing / excise structure. They might feel that city is 20% more expensive than BR-V, look at India !

Frankly, even I am in the market for a 7 seater and was eagerly waiting for BR-V. But the product is so underwhelming and overpriced for what it offers. Many (including me) feel that Honda is taking us for a ride(and an expensive ride at that ) with a rebadged Mobilio. They should have priced it a little above Ertiga in current form or build a good platform ( wider with Honda City features ) and then launched at this price.It would have nicely fit in the slot emptied by Innova.
It quacks like a duck, walks like a duck but Honda sharpens its beak and wants me to believe its an eagle? Not happening!
P.S. Duck is just an analogy. No intention on the looks of the vehicle or offend any owners. I really find the BR-V decent in the looks dept.

Well its simple, don't buy the BR-V.

"quacks like a duck...walks like a duck" is untrue. I have just completed a 1.5 hour TD of the CVT and I can tell you this:

Its better than Creta Petrol AT, Ecosport Petrol AT and Honda City Petrol AT. I don't have much of a need of a 6-7 seater neither budget is an issue, but I prefer BR-V over Creta anyday in terms of its handling, braking and CVT+Paddle shifters. I am not comparing Diesels here, as Honda has much to learn from Hyundai and Fiat in that space.

[SmartCat]

There you go - the mystery of "Honda BR-V is 20% cheaper than Honda City in Indonesia" too has been resolved

As a result of government incentives and taxes, Indonesia’s roads are dominated by multi-personnel vehicles such as the locally produced Toyota Avanza, Toyota Kijang and Daihatsu Xenia. These seven-seater MPVs with high ground clearance are perfectly suited for Indonesia and other emerging markets where families are large and roads suffer from frequent floods and pot holes

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/add4fb30-0...#axzz4AUx7f15k

I am getting a bit bored (finally) of this "Honda BR-V should have been priced at par with Ertiga" topic though. I'm just glad people don't think BR-V should be priced at par with this -

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

BR-V will trump Creta if same pricing is considered.

I didnt get the point. Are you telling at a fixed price point of 14Lacs, the BR-V variant is better than the Creta variant?

Originally Posted by -xplora-

Coming to Indonesia, this has been discussed earlier. Every market is different. In India "SUVish" vehicles command a premium over sedans or hatch-backs of the same category, it is everywhere, but in India it is higher. In Indonesia they do much higher volumes of such form factors vs sedans like city. Plus we do not know their taxing / excise structure. They might feel that city is 20% more expensive than BR-V, look at India !

Atleast the sales guy there can try convincing the customer with a few features like City is wider-more shoulder room, better quality interiors, better equipped.
Whats the Indian sales guy going to tell? Poorly equipped, no shoulder room, poor quality but hey Honda calls it SUV. So pay 10% more than City.

Originally Posted by -xplora-

Well its simple, don't buy the BR-V.

"quacks like a duck...walks like a duck" is untrue. I have just completed a 1.5 hour TD of the CVT and I can tell you this:

Its better than Creta Petrol AT, Ecosport Petrol AT and Honda City Petrol AT. I don't have much of a need of a 6-7 seater neither budget is an issue, but I prefer BR-V over Creta anyday in terms of its handling, braking and CVT+Paddle shifters. I am not comparing Diesels here, as Honda has much to learn from Hyundai and Fiat in that space.

For your specific need of a petrol AT, BR-V might be a good buy where Creta is much more expensive. But most of us here are talking in general about the pricing vs features vs quality in the car and not of one specific variant.

[-xplora-]

Originally Posted by m8002?

I didnt get the point. Are you telling at a fixed price point of 14Lacs, the BR-V variant is better than the Creta variant?

Simple example, lets compare BR-V AT + 1 lac of after-market stuff vs Creta petrol AT. Or any Petrol versions with cost-difference to be used to add/update features in BR-V. Diesel I am not considering as I like Hyundai's Diesel way better than Honda's.

Atleast the sales guy there can try convincing the customer with a few features like City is wider-more shoulder room, better quality interiors, better equipped.
Whats the Indian sales guy going to tell? Poorly equipped, no shoulder room, poor quality but hey Honda calls it SUV. So pay 10% more than City.

Dude, atleast argue with some basis not for a reply's sake. The Indian sales guy has 10 things to say about BR-V which Honda City does not have ! Viz:

- 6-7 seater
- 6 speed MT and tweaked CVT
- 16 inch diamond cut wheels
- Better NVH levels
- 210mm CG
- Longer and Taller
- And yes contrary to your thinking BR-V is wider than the City
- rear overhead AC blower
- Much more airy cabin
- Tumbling, reclining seats give you multiple options of boot space and sitting

But if you are still stuck on the reverse sensors and plastics, I cannot help it

For your specific need of a petrol AT, BR-V might be a good buy where Creta is much more expensive. But most of us here are talking in general about the pricing vs features vs quality in the car and not of one specific variant.

All variants of Creta v BR-V equivalent are about 80k to 100k more expensive not just AT.

[AmarPaithankar]

I got to see the BR-V at Deccan Honda, Pimpri-Chinchwad and my first impressions are:

1) Driver's seat height adjustment has good range (50mm travel as mentioned by the sales staff)
2) Due to a low waist line, side visibility is very good. For better understanding, sit in a Ford Eco Sport or a Hyundai Creta both of whose waist line is higher
3) Petrol engine is super silent with a linear power delivery, although frequent gear shifts are required in city. 145Nm torque could be bettered?
4) 6-speed gearbox has short throws, but shift action is notchy. This is not acceptable in a vehicle with a price of above Rs. 14 Lakhs
5) The all important and USP of the BR-V: 3rd row seat has adequate leg room but seating is still uncomfortable due to poor under thigh support.
6) Second row seat comfort is not segment best. EcoSport, Brezza and Creta have far more comfortable second row seats
7) A big flaw is Honda is not offering reverse camera or sensors even for top end versions. I feel these are a necessity for a large car like the BR-V
8) Had Honda given "magic seats" (as in the Jazz), utility of the BR-V would increase manifold. the third row seat folds but does not tumble. This does not liberate a flat loading bay.
9) Music system of the BR-V as compared to the Tiago top end model pales severely. There is no CD player!!!!

What Honda have done with the BR-V is nothing short of cleverly repositioning the Mobilio MPV as a crossover and they have succeeded in doing so.
Major sheet metal changes to the front have given the BR-V it own identity.
The rear resembles the new CR-V which is again class.

[-xplora-]

My today's BR-V CVT Extended TD thoughts:

First of all, many thanks to Emerald Honda, was the first one to do TD of the CVT and that too for 25-30km and 1.5 hours. Also many thanks for a superb 5 star review by Aditya & Rehaan which gave a lot of insight in making the decision and going in for a TD.

At Home:

The CVT was a Silver one, for those who want understated / blended chrome, this is the color to go for.

First thing I had to check if my parents could sit in and get out of the car easily. My dad sat in the front for a minute and in the back for a minute. My mom sat in the back for a minute. Only one statement from dad "buy it". They did not bother which brand it was, what was it called, weather it was AT or Manual etc. I am mentioning this cause, this aspect especially for people older than 60 is right at the top. For my parents its the only condition. They loved the fact that it has extra seat and space. One thing he did say was where is "the screen" and "gps". To which I had to circumvent that by saying it will be in "our" car

Fit and finish of this car was better than the one in the official review and the TD of the diesel that I did at the same dealer. I have taken pictures of the fuel-lid lever area, door rubber linings, wheel bay, panel gaps etc. to give a comparative idea, will post it seperately. Audio system was tested using 320kbps MP3s, did not try FLAC, should have. The audio is pretty decent considering its a stock. Was it super/audiophile. Nope.

Drive in Traffic:

The iVtec is silent and is a drastic change from their Diesel version, NVH levels seemed a bit better than City. It was not bumper to bumper but reasonable traffic. Drive in D mode was smooth as silk. The car would reel forward at 5km speed with no throttle, which I think is useful in bumper to bumper traffic. Over-taking is a breeze, no need to step on the gas as the iVtec is peppy enough. The ECO light automatically turns on and off when you are in the "Eco-band". I think its a good feature to have and it helps on the learning curve a lot especially for standard city / leisure drive, helping extract more mileage.

The infamous "rubber-band" effect:

Obviously, this is inherent to all CVTs, and in the BR-V, it was there, but is significantly less than City's CVT. I think they have tweaked / re-calibrated the belts or the system itself. You can only feel it if you are driving it like a diesel truck, i.e. heavy foot. Medium throttle push is just fine. Also timing makes a difference. If you push the throttle at the right time when the revs of the lower gear (well its a CVT, so will call it gear-ratio then) are 3.5k-4k mark it smoothly shifts without the rubber-band, but the opposite situation will create that effect. Was it intrusive ? Not at all. To my pleasant surprise it is very livable, infact you won't notice it unless you want to drive like an enthusiast in the D mode.

I did the "ghat-road" manouver requested by smartcat quite a few times in D mode at 40 / 60 / 80. At higher speed the rubber-band effect is more pronouced. I think it has to do with the ratios, to get more mileage. But it was fine. Was it at par with a manual, nope I would still prefer the manual.

In the D mode, for a few times I did feel the need to use the paddle-shifters, simply because the CVTs ECU vs my manual thinking/judgement were not 100% matching all the time. But I guess its a matter of a bit of learning curve as well. That is why we have the "S" manual mode.

Paddle-shifters / S mode:

Same manouver was tested in "S" mode and it did make a difference. The paddle-shifters are not at all a gimmick. To get the thrust, down-shifting gives good engine braking and additional torque. There is a bit of learning curve, but I adjusted to it in minutes. CVT + Paddle-shifters in S mode in the BR-V is fun to drive from an AT perspective. Is obviously not as much fun as my MJD MT.

A nifty little feature of holding the + paddle shifter for 2 seconds puts it in Auto mode comes in handy. Guess it might be there in all Honda CVTs. The engine does become noisy when its revved up in manual mode.

Other points:

Braking and Handling both are very good, better than Creta Petrol AT.

Suspension is on the stiffer side, But handling is brilliant, its a good balance. Only large pot-holes and bumps will give you the thud, smaller undulations is not an issue. No other car comes even close to the suspension and handling of the Linea and I guess Fiesta, at this price point. I wonder what is so different that Fiat/Ford did that Hyundai/Honda/Maruti etc. cannot replicate. Of course I am taking into consideration the difference in GC.

BR-V felt pretty planted on the road and I drove it past 110km speed. Body-roll was not that pronounced even for the third-row person. However, he did mention about "bumpiness" when larger pot-holes were hit. Braking is pretty decent. Considering its a longish car for its proportions, the braking was in a straight-line from 90km speed to stand-still.

Additional Info:

This dealer has got 300 bookings. Out of which CVT AT are around 60-70. Most of the other bookings are either V or VX, E and S are very few. They will let me know the delivery schedules for CVT today. Mine being the first booking, hopefully will receive it sooner. My expectation is by end of June / first-half of July.

They informed me that price has increased from 1st June owing to 1% TCS and 0.5% Kisan kalyan tax.

[Doylthippo]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

My today's BR-V CVT Extended TD thoughts:

OMG. Your write up is in such a way that, i felt as if i have taken the test drive of V-CVT .
Will be waiting for your complete ownership experience here .

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

My today's BR-V CVT Extended TD thoughts:

Super comprehensive review of the highway manners of BR-V CVT!

The only question left to ask is - does wind/tyre noise intrude too much into the cabin at, say 100 kmph? Hyundai cars (even old gen ones) have noticeably hushed cabins. I'm guessing this black cladding with grooves help in reducing wind noise caused by ORVMs (just conjecture, not sure)

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The original 1.6L Earth Dreams i-DTEC mill wasn't compatible with India's diesel back when it was brought to our country for the first time. Hence the original engine was re-bored and downsized to a 1.5L unit which was modified extensively to make it compatible with India's diesel.

Also, the 1.6L diesel comes under a higher excise tax bracket in our country. It would have made all the 1.6L-powered cars even more costlier. (Link (Honda BR-V : Official Review))

My point is - Hyundai offer 1.6 on the Creta and Suzuki offer 1.6 on S-cross and so why not Honda not offer the 1.6 on their so called premium crossover 'BR-V'. What's the differentiating factor from the Mobilio apart from some cosmetic changes and interior changes?

[SmartCat]

Here is a flashy headlight mod for BR-V

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Also, the 1.6L diesel comes under a higher excise tax bracket in our country. It would have made all the 1.6L-powered cars even more costlier.

Originally Posted by searacer932

What's the differentiating factor from the Mobilio apart from some cosmetic changes and interior changes?

Good points, both. The right solution would have been to introduce a 120 BHP version of 1.5 iDTEC engine with tweaks to the turbocharger (like we have a 75 BHP and 90 BHP versions of the national engine) on the BR-V.

So Mobilio will appeal to those with FE on mind, while BR-V might appeal to those who want power. Mobilio is clocking a steady 600 per month (equal to Lodgy sales). Mobilio (with Amaze interiors) opening up to commercial sales could easily take its sales to 1000 - 1500/month.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

- And yes contrary to your thinking BR-V is wider than the City

Is it really? I have not seen the BR-V from close but isn't it as wide or narrow as the Brio from inside?
Exterior width as seen in the specifications can be misleading but if you consider the shoulder width inside, Honda City is a fairly wide vehicle and I doubt if BR-V matches this.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Guna

Is it really? I have not seen the BR-V from close but isn't it as wide or narrow as the Brio from inside?
Exterior width as seen in the specifications can be misleading but if you consider the shoulder width inside, Honda City is a fairly wide vehicle and I doubt if BR-V matches this.

BR-V is wider than the City, mostly probably because of the extra cladding. But, City's seat width is much wider than that of BR-V. The seat base extends almost to the doorpad. So its basically very clever packaging in the City that gives you a great back seat.



BR-V's 2nd row seat width is comparable to that of Ertiga. It's not too bad though.

Brezza/Creta/Duster etc backseat are wider than the BR-V, but the length advantage is just approximately equal to the length of an average low end smartphone. For example: the rear seat width of BR-V is 127 mm while the rear seat width of Rapid/Vento is 131 mm - that's a tiny 4 mm difference. Now I really haven't heard anybody calling Rapid/Vento an "essentially a 4 seater".

Rear seat width of BR-V is unlikely to be deal breaker for anybody who likes the BR-V. But yes, its a huge negative for those who don't like the BR-V in the first place

[-xplora-]

Originally Posted by Guna

Is it really? I have not seen the BR-V from close but isn't it as wide or narrow as the Brio from inside?
Exterior width as seen in the specifications can be misleading but if you consider the shoulder width inside, Honda City is a fairly wide vehicle and I doubt if BR-V matches this.

Exterior specifications wise also it is wider than the city. Internally the door frames and plastics total width is a shade thinner than the city, so it will be wider inside.

Having said that, the width of the seat is totally a different thing, just like in Ecosport there is quite a bit of space between the back seat and the door which in-turn makes it a two-seater at best in the back or in BR-Vs case 2.5 seater in the back, not that Honda city or any other car for that matter is comfortable for 3 in the back seat anyway.

Oh I got it. Its the seat tumble levers that require the space between the seat and the door, i.e. the seat base has to be at a reasonable distance from the door plastics, Unlike a 4-5 seater. So seat width of a 6-7 seater will be a little less IMHO.

[SmartCat]

^^

Correction: It's 127 & 131 cm, and hence a difference of 4 cm (not mm). Rear seat width of all cars available on Autocar India

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

Exterior specifications wise also it is wider than the city. Internally the door frames and plastics total width is a shade thinner than the city, so it will be wider inside.

Having said that, the width of the seat is totally a different thing, just like in Ecosport there is quite a bit of space between the back seat and the door which in-turn makes it a two-seater at best in the back or in BR-Vs case 2.5 seater in the back, not that Honda city or any other car for that matter is comfortable for 3 in the back seat anyway.

Oh I got it. Its the seat tumble levers that require the space between the seat and the door, i.e. the seat base has to be at a reasonable distance from the door plastics, Unlike a 4-5 seater. So seat width of a 6-7 seater will be a little less IMHO.

External dimensions(width) quoted by manufacturer is at the widest point. BRV is externally wider than mobilio due to wider track and the external cladding. Cabin width of Brio/Amaze/Mobilio/BRV is actually same.