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Old 17th September 2018, 03:35   #1651
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Make sure the valves are not leaking air. It is unnatural for properly inflated tyres to burst, unless air is leaking slowly and deflating the tyres. Valves are made of rubber and due to constant exposure to sunlight, harden up and crack causing air to leak. Hope valves were replaced when tyres were changed. For people who do a lot of highway driving it is good to keep an analogue gauge and check tyre pressure once in 15 days or so. That way you will know if any tyre is leaking air. Just checking pressure before start of a highway journey can sometimes conceal the fact that there is a small leak.
Thank you for this! I will double check with the tire shop, however I seem to recall them using new valves. I have to agree, it doesn't hurt to check tire pressures every few days especially if heading out on a long highway trip.
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Old 17th September 2018, 09:43   #1652
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Has anyone fitted a foreign ICE on the Crysta, or any vehicle as a matter of fact?
There are no ICEs made in India anyway and all the connections and ports are standard internationally. As long as your father has the face plate and depth measurements, an 12V head unit will work. A couple of things that need to be kept in mind though are:

1. The DVD format it reads since DVDs are region specific.
2. In case it has inbuilt maps, check the update procedure and the accuracy of those maps in India. Garmin, for example isn't as good as MMI here.
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Old 17th September 2018, 11:58   #1653
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

Thank you dear BHPians Shreyas Agarwal, 4x4addict, SPARKled, geotracks, CrippledLucifer, Santoshbhat, vkochar for sharing your experiences and thoughts related to Crysta tyres.

After posting about the incident here, I checked with Crysta owners in my friends circle whether they faced similar issue with the tyres. No one reported about uneven wear, but one friend had a tyre burst (similar to what CrippledLucifer and vkochar told) on Sep 8th morning. His was a Dec 2017 Crysta 2.8 Z with 17" rims which had done around 9,500 kms. Luckily the burst was not on a highway. He was doing around 50-60kms when rear right tyre burst. He used to do wheel balancing/alignment properly as per schedule specified by Toyota.

Bridgestone India (for Toyota) investigated the matter based on pictures shared by Toyota service advisor and closed it saying that it was not a manufacturing defect. Their diagnosis was "Sidewall cut penetration by some sharp external object & runflat". Please find some pictures of the tyre.

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-img20180914wa0003.jpg

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-img20180914wa0004.jpg

Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-img20180914wa0006.jpg

We were seriously considering Innova Crysta 2.8 Z automatic as a replacement for our 2010 Volkswagen Vento which we use for highway/long distance runs in our family. But after reading and hearing about the quality and tyre related issues from multiple Crysta owners, I am having second thoughts now.

One reason for thinking about switching to Toyota was the stupendous service support that they used to give and the way they deal with the such issues. But in this particular case, why is Toyota not issuing an official recall to replace the tyres of the affected batch of Crystas. It might not be a manufacturing defect, but Toyota only selected and installed a tyre size that was not suitable for the vehicle right? Many experts including our official review had pointed out potential issues because of these tyres. Why should a customer pay for a mistake that Toyota did (wrong tyre choice).

Some time back, I remember Ford replacing MRF tyres which had done < 10,000 kms free of cost to customers. They informed all the customers through SMS and many people got their tyres replaced at Ford dealerships without paying a penny. The replacement offer from Ford - if I remember correctly - was not for a serious issue like tyre burst. It was related to some road noise or vibrations I think.

If Ford can do that for its customers, why cant a giant like Toyota do it for customers who paid more that 25 lakhs for the 2.8 Crystas.
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Old 17th September 2018, 16:42   #1654
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post

We were seriously considering Innova Crysta 2.8 Z automatic as a replacement for our 2010 Volkswagen Vento which we use for highway/long distance runs in our family. But after reading and hearing about the quality and tyre related issues from multiple Crysta owners, I am having second thoughts now.
Just have 7 airbags in G model, like in Z model and one will find a lot of customers..with a better set of more reliable 16" tyres.
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Old 17th September 2018, 18:22   #1655
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post

We were seriously considering Innova Crysta 2.8 Z automatic as a replacement for our 2010 Volkswagen Vento which we use for highway/long distance runs in our family.
There is no better Car for Mid-Row this side of 100L except Innova in my experience. Toyota's reliability and service are great. And if you maintain your car, it retains its value far better then others. There have been many competing products but Innova has always been the leader. There cannot be so many people doing mistakes.

Tyres are an easy fix and can happen to any brand and on any Car. This is from today, my colleague was going from Ahmedabad to Gandhidham on a Ford Endeavour and the tyres were Geolandar from Yokohama, supposedly best for the segment.
Attached Thumbnails
Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review-whatsapp-image-20180917-10.58.41-am.jpeg  


Last edited by Turbanator : 17th September 2018 at 18:27.
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Old 17th September 2018, 18:42   #1656
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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This is from today, my colleague was going from Ahmedabad to Gandhidham on a Ford Endeavour and the tyres were Geolandar from Yokohama, supposedly best for the segment.


That is a shocking sight!. I have never seen a tyre so badly ruined .

Do you have more details on how this happened? Yokohama Geolander, as you have mentioned, is one of the best ones available.
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Old 17th September 2018, 19:17   #1657
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post

Can any existing owners confirm whether they are facing similar issues or is this is a one off case?
My 2016 Innova Crysta 2.4V has completed 35,000Km. My service advisor says I can easily do another 20,000km. Got it verified with leading tyre shop in Chennai.
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Old 17th September 2018, 23:00   #1658
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post
Thank you dear BHPians Shreyas Agarwal, 4x4addict, SPARKled, geotracks, CrippledLucifer, Santoshbhat, vkochar for sharing your experiences and thoughts related to Crysta tyres.

After posting about the incident here, I checked with Crysta owners in my friends circle whether they faced similar issue with the tyres. No one reported about uneven wear, but one friend had a tyre burst (similar to what CrippledLucifer and vkochar told) on Sep 8th morning. His was a Dec 2017 Crysta 2.8 Z with 17" rims which had done around 9,500 kms. Luckily the burst was not on a highway. He was doing around 50-60kms when rear right tyre burst. He used to do wheel balancing/alignment properly as per schedule specified by Toyota.

Bridgestone India (for Toyota) investigated the matter based on pictures shared by Toyota service advisor and closed it saying that it was not a manufacturing defect. Their diagnosis was "Sidewall cut penetration by some sharp external object & runflat". Please find some pictures of the tyre.

Attachment 1799455

Attachment 1799456

Attachment 1799457
That's clearly tyre (s) manufacturing defect. The sidewall is so weak that it crumpled when driven hard & the rubber wall got torn.
Bridgestone is going the Firestone way in India.

You are correct Toyota should have recalled these tyres but Indian management has brushed the issue under carpet (taking a leaf from Japanese management in Unintended Acceleration issue) & the Govt authorities won't bother in India.
IMO you should go for Innova Crysta, but go for tyre change to Michelin or Continentals.
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Old 17th September 2018, 23:12   #1659
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post
One reason for thinking about switching to Toyota was the stupendous service support that they used to give and the way they deal with the such issues. But in this particular case, why is Toyota not issuing an official recall to replace the tyres of the affected batch of Crystas.
Toyota is known for its high handedness in India. Their service network is good and affordable ONLY for regular services and other routine replacements. They have had the audacity to keep mum many such issues which are due to product defects and supplier quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post
If Ford can do that for its customers, why cant a giant like Toyota do it for customers who paid more that 25 lakhs for the 2.8 Crystas.
Because they don't bother, simple as that.
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Old 17th September 2018, 23:54   #1660
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Make sure the valves are not leaking air. It is unnatural for properly inflated tyres to burst, unless air is leaking slowly and deflating the tyres. check tyre pressure once in 15 days or so
To my knowledge, if the valves are leaking air, tyres can get deflated or you can feel the difference while driving/ riding. Typical situations like a puncture on a tyre will make the tyre get deflated and become flat. In both these situations, it may not lead to a tyre burst. The burst can happen due to, some part of the tyre not able to withstand the inside air pressure and it gives way.
Tyre burst or any other problem on the tyre can be due to manufacturing defect and also can be influenced by other external factors. IMO, the root cause of these problems can be identified by the manufacturer by doing a wholesome analysis of "many tyre bursts". The tyre manufacturer should take the issue seriously and in coordination with Toyota, should do the "root cause analysis".
It is indeed a very good practice of checking air pressure of the tyres every fortnight and also before you are going for a long trip. A visible check on all the tyres before you take the vehicle out every day can be helpful.
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Old 18th September 2018, 00:50   #1661
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post
"Sidewall cut penetration by some sharp external object & runflat". Please find some pictures of the tyre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Ford Endeavour and the tyres were Geolandar from Yokohama, supposedly best for the segment.
Dear both, I really don't see anything wrong in both the above cases except one part and that is driver's negligence. Having a rear tyre deflated and not being easily detectable it is quite a common trait in the cars these days; especially the ones which have a nice NVH and low(er) profile tyres or bigger rims. I used to think that my a## can detect any issue with tyres but I miserably failed with Hexa and drove one for a few kilometers with a deflated tyre on the highway.


Both the owners must have not even realized that they are running a deflated tyre (Note: Both the tyres are rear ones) and when they realized, it was already too late.



To be very frank, it is simply over my head that a tyre sidewall can damage to this extent if the vehicle is stopped just after the puncture has occured, some things require a few events to happen before their occurance and these cases are one of them. Driving is the second thing on this earth in which a man always thinks he is the best one, I know many people who ignore the symptoms like minor shakes etc and then complain that the component was faulty - but never accept that they ignored a few initial symptoms. My take is simple, I won't go ahead and blame the tyre; I am with Bridgestone guys on this one.



Coming to Ecosport Tyres:
Ford is replacing the 17 inch tyres on Titanium+ trims of Ecosport free of cost for the ones which have developed a bulge; if there is no sign of a major hit. The tyres which are being replaced are the Bridgestone Ecopia make.


One person in my circle had a major hit in a pothole with slightly underinflated tyre. When he visited the dealer of the city where he was at that point of time, the dealer clearly denied the claim. Once back, we simple interchanged the tyre with one on another rim, now we had a bulged tyre on a rim with no signs of damage - they replaced it happily; and I told the story on the forum because I am least bit concerned if Ford stops doing this even at this moment
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Old 18th September 2018, 02:21   #1662
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by daniel_sam View Post
Thank you dear BHPians Shreyas Agarwal, 4x4addict, SPARKled, geotracks, CrippledLucifer, Santoshbhat, vkochar for sharing your experiences and thoughts related to Crysta tyres.
Very scary! That tire looks in even worse shape than ours. I suppose riding on 17's didn't help the case either.

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Both the owners must have not even realized that they are running a deflated tyre (Note: Both the tyres are rear ones) and when they realized, it was already too late.
This is not true at least in my case. As I mentioned, I was the one driving the vehicle and immediately noticed something was wrong. For starters, the sound in the cabin instantly changed when the tire burst and from a drivers perspective, the car began losing speed almost immediately.

Maybe it's shoddy tires or maybe it's just sheer awful luck, who knows? Let's see how our new Michelin's hold up.
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Old 18th September 2018, 07:56   #1663
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

It seems the suspension on these SUV's are shifting more secondary shocks back to the tyres instead of absorbing the shocks or transferring it back to the chassis. This is done to enhance ride quality but this feature of comfort also extracts a price in terms of tyre durability. Also softer sidewall tyres were another accessory to absorb shocks but these also can tear easily if the rubber dries out with age and loses its original flexibility and even when they are put under same stress conditions these tyres can tear unexpectedly.
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Old 18th September 2018, 13:51   #1664
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

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Originally Posted by obed5579 View Post
My 2016 Innova Crysta 2.4V has completed 35,000Km. My service advisor says I can easily do another 20,000km. Got it verified with leading tyre shop in Chennai.
Thanks obed5579. It seems 16" tyres on the 2.4 is perfectly fine. Issue seems to be only with the 17" tyres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
There is no better Car for Mid-Row this side of 100L except Innova in my experience. Toyota's reliability and service are great. And if you maintain your car, it retains its value far better then others.
True. That's exactly the reason why we thought of going for the Innova. The after sales experience with Vento was not at all pleasant. Exorbitant spare part pricing, frequent breakdowns, and many bad experiences at the service centres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Tyres are an easy fix and can happen to any brand and on any Car.
If it is just a random incident it is fine. But we saw many owners with 17" wheels reporting the blow out right? Owners with 16" tyres are not facing the issue. That's why I am suspecting the impractical tyre size they selected for the Z variants as the culprit here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
Both the owners must have not even realized that they are running a deflated tyre (Note: Both the tyres are rear ones) and when they realized, it was already too late.
Checked with my friend. He confirmed that he heard sound from the tyres when it failed and he immediately pulled over to the side and stopped the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
"Sidewall cut penetration by some sharp external object & runflat".
This is the diagnosis from Bridgestone looking at just the pictures of the tyres without any physical inspection. It could be a standard line they use to put the blame on the customer.

It is quite possible that the blow out actually happened by hitting a sharp object. But since many people reported the same issue, we always think about the wrong tyre size/tyre with manufacturing defect angle. But when you think further, since Toyota already tried to rectify the issue with new cars, first by switching to 16" wheels on all variants and then by bringing back 17" rims with harder side wall tyres, we can safely assume that they are already aware of the issue.

It would be a nice gesture from Toyota if they could do something for the existing owners who is at risk running on the soft side walled 17" rims.
They might lose some money when they do the recall and replace the tyres. But ultimately, they will get the goodwill and confidence of the customer and it will only add to brand appeal.

On a lighter note, if they build the brand like this, they can increase the prices even further when they launch the next Innova
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Old 18th September 2018, 22:58   #1665
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Default Re: Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review

One question to ask is, so many other brand vehicles have tyre sizes 17” rims or larger, but why only Innova Crysta’s 17” rim size has been plagued with the tyre issues.

2 top reasons could be:

(i) Most likely: The stock tyres that Toyota purchased from the tyre manufacturer for the 17” rims, genuinely had quality issues. For a variety of reasons which can be debated, neither stock tyre supplier nor Toyota ever admitted to the tyre quality issue (recall). Consider this - not seen a lot of posts from Innova Crysta customers with 17” rims who had issues with stock tyres, complaint after they switched the stock tyres with alternates of their choice (this is true for my Honda City too, after I replaced stock defective MRFs [please refer my earlier post] with Yokohama)

(ii) Probably: The thin side walled tyres may be OK for sedans (Mercs, BMWs, Volvos etc.) but on a truck chassis (ladder on frame) like that of the Innova Crysta, this (thin side wall) may just not be “suitable”. Reason, if we look at the other comparable (heavy) SUVs like Fortuner, Bolero, Scorpio, Endeavor, XUV etc. all have thick walled tyres with big rim sizes and no issues (may be a few outliers) reported by customers at all.

Hence in summary, quality of stock tyres (batch of the 17" tyres) sold to Toyota is questionable OR thin side wall tyres are just not suitable for ladder on frame type of ‘heavy’ vehicle. The bad Indian road also contribute to increasing the chances of tyre damage on thin walled tyres worn on a ‘heavy’ vehicle like the Innova Crysta. This also could explain why the lower variants of the Innova Crysta (16” rims) having thicker side walls (assuming no manufacture related quality issues) are able to take more ‘beating’ on bad Indian roads.
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