[shramik]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

For whatever reasons known to Tata, engines tend to fail or engine heads need to be replaced on XTAs.

I am personally in touch with one owner from Bangalore whose 45k run XTA's entire engine had to be replaced. That too with a rebuilt one. And the whole experience has been harrowing to say the least.

I myself am a XT owner. Would I buy a pre-owned Tata? With over 50k on the odo? With the way majority of Indians treat their cars and TASS's reputation? No.

I have been a Tata confirmed car loyalist since the first "92 Tata Estate, followed by over 2 dozen Tata models including the Nano...... That is why I opted for the Hexa XTA, delivered in September 2017. I have never regretted the decision now with over 50,000 Kms, almost all long distance. The car is completely reliable, performance is superb at high speeds, stability is excellent. I may point out that this car was a replacement for my Mercedes W 124 petrol, so the connotation of my comparison may be noted. I may now consider the Harrier to replace my VW Polo. I beleive all the negative comments I have read on the Hexa were largely over-hyped.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by prasanna_indaje

We are mixing up two separate topics here.

I did not tell our fellow BHPian to strictly avoid the AT. I told him to 'try' sticking to MT if possible. What I said was on basis of considerable discussions that I have seen on the Telegram group, with multiple Hexas from the 2017 & 2018 batches facing the issue.

Originally Posted by shramik

I have been a Tata confirmed car loyalist since.....I beleive all the negative comments I have read on the Hexa were largely over-hyped.

Good to know that you have had such multiple happy ownerships.

I have spent 2 million bucks on my Hexa, with an intention of a long term ownership. That's proof enough about how much I admire the product.

Originally Posted by TD_GHY

I am getting a Hexa XT 4X2, February 2017 model at 9.5 lakhs that has done about 1 lakh kms.

If in case, you happen to compare pre-owned Hexa prices online, do note Mumbai and Bangalore have higher road taxes to the tune of > 1 lac and > 1.5 lac respectively than Guwahati. (For XT variants)

[ram87pune]

Guys I think we should first advice him on what to do with regards to the 3 years old Hexa and then debate about the reliability of the engine on Hexa automatics.

So here are my 2 cents on whether @TD GHY should go ahead with this Hexa.

1. I frankly think that the quoted price of 9.5 lakh is a bit steep considering the fact that it is almost 50% of what was the original price of the brand new XT 4*2 in February 2017. To me a price of 7-8 lakh seems Ok.

2. 9.5 lakh is justified only if the said car is in mint condition with brand new tyres, extended warranty, detailed service history and a thorough checking of all the mechanicals.

3. I am assuming the car has done most of its running in the hilly regions of the North East which warrants a checkup of the clutch as well even though the clutch on the Varicor 400 is known to be troublefree for about 2 lakh kms.

4. A daily running of close to 100 kms in that region would have put the car through a lot more stress than say 100 kms of daily running between Pune and Mumbai. But there is no clarity on that.

5. Checking if all the parts which were a part of periodic and batchwise recall by TML have been changed. My Hexa is July 17 manufactured and I had to change front wiper motor, complete exhaust assembly along with 2 software updates to the infotainment system and one for the engine to reduce the gargling noise.

If all the above mentioned criteria are satisfied by the said Hexa then only 9.5 lakh is justified IMO. The most important thing to have would be the extended warranty without which I would strongly recommend the OP to look elsewhere.

All the best with your hunt buddy and keep us updated.

[locusjag]

If I were the OP, I would have taken the Hexa for a multipoint inspection to a TASS. A 100 point or a 150 point inspection should suffice right, to expose any hidden gremlins?

Why wasn't this solution already offered? Am I being naive in trusting Indian OEMs' Service Centers?

Anyway, this is the modus operandi that I employed to evaluate used cars for myself and at least 10 friends in the USA (and I received a $150 referral cheque in 2017 from my favorite used car dealer after the 10th deal was struck through me).

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

I did not tell our fellow BHPian to strictly avoid the AT. I told him to 'try' sticking to MT if possible. What I said was on basis of considerable discussions that I have seen on the Telegram group, with multiple Hexas from the 2017 & 2018 batches facing the issue.

Thanks for confirming the head replacement news you shared was based on hearsay. Will be more than happy to see any concrete evidence, rather than quoting WhatsApp and Telegram groups.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by prasanna_indaje

Thanks for confirming the head replacement news you shared was based on hearsay. Will be more than happy to see any concrete evidence, rather than quoting WhatsApp and Telegram groups.

You can yourself join the Telegram group. Its free. All you need to be is a Hexa owner. And see for yourself.

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

You can yourself join the Telegram group. Its free. All you need to be is a Hexa owner. And see for yourself.

I am part of relevant groups related to Hexa (not all !) from 2017. There are photos and invoices for many repairs. But none of them are enough to generalize the issues.

[damodar]

I have a Hexa XTA bought in March 2017 which has completed 37000km. My only parts replacement till today have been a cracked exhaust bracket twice and an AT gearbox vent mounting as a part of factory recall.
I usually drive in the sports mode and keep pushing to the redline once in 1500 km so as to keep the excess carbon build up in check. Inspite of pushing the engine to it's limit I have not encountered any leaks from cylinder head.
The engine head replacement on certain Hexa's could be because of low coolant level. Some over enthusiastic TASS can even replace the head even if there is a minor leaking from the cylinder packing, which could have been rectified easily by tightening up the head bolts with the correct torque.
AT gearbox wouldn't effect the functioning of the engine as it's role starts from the output shaft and instead of a clutch the torque converter is mounted on the flywheel.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

Also, try sticking to MT Hexas. I've found the AT Hexas to give problems to their owners more than the MT ones. From engine head to complete engine replacement.

About engine heads being changed, I felt it it's necessary for folks here to know if it is true.

Before sharing stuff, let me make an amendment to what I said. Engine head changes have been observed in both AT and MT variants, not just ATs.

Secondly, I made an assumption that many owners would be aware of this. Apparently they aren't. And that is the reason, I feel it's better they are made aware.

This post is not to put people into panic mode, or start a campaign against or malign Tata. It's to make owners aware that such an issue can crop up in any Hexa. Why I say any? Because Tata has no answer as to why it happens. And we would like to know why it happens. And maybe assured that it would be resolved by Tata if it crops up after the warranty is up.

One of the reasons this issue probably hasn't come out in the open is Hexa's low sales figures. Most of the head changes are done quietly with no debates. Hell, one uninformed owner reported this change, photos of invoice in tow, where TASS replaced the head under the guise of 'service campaign'

My last post was shared on Hexa's telegram group by a fellow owner and a discussion was sparked. We wanted to know if this issue is common and what is the cause.

Only a couple hundred members are active in this group. So the numbers I report are from those, not the whole odd 26,000 Hexas sold. Issues are reported in 2017 & 2018 year models. No known issues yet in 2019 makes.

For reasons unknown to us owners and even TASS, a leak is observed between the engine head and exhaust manifold. This is accompanied by a decrease in oil levels and overheating. In some cases, I guess changing the gasket does the job. But most of the owners who reported have undergone an engine head change. Now as it usually is with Tata, the job is done smoothly or with some hiccups for owners under warranty.

1. Currently I am aware of 11 owners, whose Hexas have undergone engine head changes. You can make it 12 by adding BHPian jalsa777's Hexa to it.
2. 1 gasket change. I guess this is done if the issue is found early and head change can be avoided.
3. 2+ owners are now reporting leaks. But nothing further can be concurred unless the lockdown is lifted and TASS opens up.

Sharing a link to video of a leak.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wr...XFkfjIZF0jbzG7

A similar issue in the Storme, jump to 2:10 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQC3377-4Zg

Here's how it looks

This post is to inform Hexa owners on and off the forum, that this issue exists, and so they won't find themselves on unfamiliar grounds if they face it. The reason I say 'exists' is because there's zero clarification from Tata and hence, it can crop up in any Hexa.

Some owners would find no leak, just a greasy residue in the same location. No need to panic, just clean the area and check after a couple hundred kms are clocked to be safe. Here's a pic from a 2017 XT with 50k on the ODO.

[shramik]

The video shows the manifold gasket leaking, not the head gasket.
In any case, diesel engines are known to face problems if the cylinder head is "faced" or "surface ground" during maintenance or if there is a suspicion of head being "warped", as is known to happen in aluminium heads if overheating occurs.
When "faced", the compression ratio will increase as the combustion chamber volume will reduce. A diesel engine already has a higher compression ration compared to petrol engines, where head surfacing is not unusual.
Perhaps this is why Tata Motors MAY have have issued an advisory, that at the slightest suspicion, heads may be changed instead of any attempt to try to face them.
As far as my experience is concerned, my Hexa was delivered on 25th September, & has covered 52,000 off Kms, predominantly long distance. I have faced absolutely no form of engine related problems, nor anything from the transmission.
I compare the Hexa to be very close with my Mercedes W 123 & W 124 in terms of comfort, reliability & performance, which the Hexa has replaced.
I can claim some fundamental knowledge of cars, having prepared my own cars in the "70s & "80s for racing/rallying.
I firmly beleive that all speculation of the Hexa's reliability etc are compounded unfounded, & that the car is superbly designed, engineered & out together.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by shramik

The video shows the manifold gasket leaking, not the head gasket.
In any case, diesel engines are known to face problems .......
Perhaps this is why Tata Motors MAY have have issued an advisory, that at the slightest suspicion, heads may be changed instead of any attempt to try to face them.

First of all, my above post was to let people know a certain issue has been encountered by some owners.

Secondly, if some believe a robust diesel engine, plonked in a 2 million rupee car, with less than 50k on the ODO to give such issues, with no explanation from Tata to the affected customers, to be one-offs or 'normal', then it's fine with me. It's a free country. No one's being forced here.

But, even I get the right to believe, that there's probably some issue in this scenario, which maybe even Tata haven't figured out yet, because there's more than just 14 cars to have faced this issue and it's been seen in the Safaris too.

[Theyota]

Even at 8L this car is not worth it as you will soon have to do the timing belt work/gbox synchros and a whole lot of other work that comes with 100k ( the notional half life of a car).

Rest assured you will regret busting so much money on a high mileage market flop model.

What is the basis for this comment? We are not in 90s to change timing belt at 100K. If 100K is half the life of a car, then there would be no taxis in India today. Economically they wouldn't make sense for their owners.

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

First of all, my above post to let people know a certain issue has been encountered by some owners..

How are you concluding that this issue is applicable to all cars ? Are these issues fixed by Tata or are these cars rotting till now ?

If you search in youtube, every car ever produced will have 100s of such issues. That doesn't make the car or brand a lemon. Let's take your example, when your car had issue , AutoMatrix fixed the issue. It's a different matter that they had some logistics issue and the parts were delayed. Are you saying this happens only in Tata OR does the starter motor goes bad in all Hexa's? A BIG NO.

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by prasanna_indaje

How are you concluding that this issue is applicable to all cars ? Are these issues fixed by Tata or are these cars rotting till now ?

If you search in Youtube, every car ever produced will have 100s of such issues. That doesn't make the car or brand a lemon. Let's take your example, when your car had issue , AutoMatrix fixed the issue. It's a different matter that they had some logistics issue and the parts were delayed. Are you saying this happens only in Tata OR does the starter motor goes bad in all Hexa's? A BIG NO.

1. I didn't say it's applicable to all cars. I said since the cause of the issue hasn't been disclosed by Tata, 'any' Hexa could face it.

2. Irrelevant to the matter at hand.

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

1. I didn't say it's applicable to all cars. I said since the cause of the issue hasn't been disclosed by Tata, 'any' Hexa could face it.

2. Irrelevant to the matter at hand.

1. Any car, even brand new could face issues, like the one you faced. As far as the issue is resolved by the dealership all is good. If someone needs any explanation , they can follow up with the manufacturer. Then when the manufacturer responds, enlighten the whole world about it. If someone does simple internet search and comes with some random examples that is just redundant and not helping !

2. Very relevant. This is what is being done