[modisan]

Hi

My first sought advice on something mechanical in the car (last time was for tyres). My Punto MJD FTA 2011 16082011 (don't punto lovers want more details?) has done 91k now (mostly city, 20% highway drive, using metro for last 6 months so couldn't cross 1l).

I am facing issues with gear shifting which I find very hard to shift now. Showed it to SA Sushil at Kashyap Fiat about a month back who found it normal. Recently, I got it serviced at Torque with a pick-up and drop as I could not find time to go there (my first pick n drop service for Punto). As a result, could not explain this issue to him and they didn't point it as well. However, met the driver when he came to drop the car, asked him about it wherein he advised clutch replacement with some costing which I forgot whether it was 7k or 15k.

Now, I haven't replaced any clutch component so far as I didn't know that it typically require replacements post 60-70k (seen on this thread today post a colleague expressing surprise on me not having replaced it so far). There is no slippage on pressing clutch. Could not take it to the service centre this weekend too.

Had taken it to Kashmere gate for a side window replacement last week. Saw a mechanic nearby and discussed with him (didn't have much to do for that one hour anyways). He didn't have a very good look at it but nonetheless advised to change clutch plate+pressure plate+bearing costing around 3k (ORIGINAL from a shop from across the road) and labour of another 3.5k

Please advise if a hard gear shift means clutch thing needs replacement? Likely damages? Any short-cuts advisable?

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by modisan

Hi

He didn't have a very good look at it but nonetheless advised to change clutch plate+pressure plate+bearing costing around 3k (ORIGINAL from a shop from across the road) and labour of another 3.5k

Please advise if a hard gear shift means clutch thing needs replacement? Likely damages? Any short-cuts advisable?

FIAT ASC charges 2.5K + tax for clutch change. Parts cost 4700 for clutch disk and pressure plate, another 600 for release bearing. Total around 8K for parts+labor. I don't understand how original parts can be available for 3k. I've heard that the TATA clutch kit is about 1k cheaper and fits on the Punto, would not advise it.

If the gearshift is hard with the engine switched off, there could be a problem with the gear cables/linkages. If the gear slotting is hard with the engine switched on , could be a clutch problem requiring replacement.

I had similar symptoms and got the clutch changed at 80K. There was no slippage, probably the bearing or the fingers on the plate went bad.I think you've run enough with this clutch with your predominantly city drives.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by modisan

Please advise if a hard gear shift means clutch thing needs replacement? Likely damages? Any short-cuts advisable?

IIRC the clutch is hydraulic in your car and if so get the gear oil change and bleed the gearbox to have it free of air.

Then check if slotting is difficult. If yes then you'll have to change the clutch plate, pressure plate and clutch release bearings.

Even after changing the above you still feel it isn't ok, then you'll have to shifter linkages and bushes.

[modisan]

Originally Posted by sdp1975

FIAT ASC charges 2.5K + tax for clutch change. Parts cost 4700 for clutch disk and pressure plate, another 600 for release bearing. Total around 8K. I don't understand how original parts can be available for 3k. I've heard that the TATA clutch kit is about 1k cheaper and fits on the Punto, would not advise it.

If the gearshift is hard with the engine switched off, there could be a problem with the gear cables/linkages. If the gear slotting is hard with the engine switched on , could be a clutch problem requiring replacement.

I had similar symptoms and got the clutch changed at 80K. There was no slippage, probably the bearing or the fingers on the plate went bad.I think you've run enough with this clutch.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

IIRC the clutch is hydraulic in your car and if so get the gear oil change and bleed the gearbox to have it free of air.

Then check if slotting is difficult. If yes then you'll have to change the clutch plate, pressure plate and clutch release bearings.

Even after changing the above you still feel it isn't ok, then you'll have to shifter linkages and bushes.

(Another first for me - multi-quote! I sure am on a steep learning curve )

Thanks for quick responses sdp1975 and a4anurag.

sdp1975 - that estimate is not very high! I never trusted that guy much anyways, most likely that would be his closest match to FASS stuff. BTW, can we actually get Fiat original clutch from outside FASS? Shall surely check out the engine off test once I get home today!

a4anurag - Thanks for advise. Gear oil was changed during service 10 days back but would again go there this weekend and try it out, if it is possible now. In fact even the pick-up didn't improve much after this service. I drove to Mussoorie and back last weekend (9 days back, explains the pick-n-drop service as it became a must for that trip).

I never felt clutch to be an issue till about a month back during gear shift has been hard/very hard/normal/smooth in a random pattern.


From both advices above combined it seems issue should be either off-engine or on-engine one. Hoping the worst doesn't surface

[sdp1975]

Originally Posted by modisan

sdp1975 - that estimate is not very high! I never trusted that guy much anyways, most likely that would be his closest match to FASS stuff. BTW, can we actually get Fiat original clutch from outside FASS?

Fiat dealers in Bangalore do sell OTC spares, don't know about other cities. You can also purchase the clutch kit online from 99rpm.com.

If you're giving it to an outside garage, make sure he has experience with clutch replacement. There was a case on t-bhp where a poorly done job by a FNG ( alignment not done properly after the clutch change ) lead to gearbox damages and leaks on a civic.

[GrayBerry]

Dear Friends,
I paid for extended warranty during purchase of my Punto and have the invoice given by Prerana motors (now vecto motors) in Bangalore. However Extended Warranty has not been updated on their system.
Last week my AC compressor stopped working (after 2.5 years of purchase), and sad part is that I could not locate extended warranty booklet nor the certificate.
Will Vecto motors respect the invoice, update their system and grant extended warranty? Need your advice to get through this issue.
Thanks & Regrads,

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by GrayBerry

I paid for extended warranty during purchase of my Punto and have the invoice given by Prerana motors (now vecto motors) in Bangalore.

Do you have the receipt of the EW amount payment? If so then that should help the dealer to trace the EW certificate no which can then be updated in their system. If dealer still plays hard, then writing a mail to Fiat for getting a duplicate EW certificate should help.

Its quite late you have realized that EW details are not updated for your car. You need to be proactive mate esp when it comes to Fiat.

[90Horses]

Originally Posted by GrayBerry

Dear Friends,
I paid for extended warranty during purchase of my Punto and have the invoice given by Prerana motors (now vecto motors) in Bangalore. However Extended Warranty has not been updated on their system.
Last week my AC compressor stopped working (after 2.5 years of purchase), and sad part is that I could not locate extended warranty booklet nor the certificate.
Will Vecto motors respect the invoice, update their system and grant extended warranty? Need your advice to get through this issue.
Thanks & Regrads,

There are some nice chaps at Vecto, ask for Dayanand (Crm) he will sort out the issue.

[modisan]

Originally Posted by sdp1975

If the gearshift is hard with the engine switched off, there could be a problem with the gear cables/linkages. If the gear slotting is hard with the engine switched on , could be a clutch problem requiring replacement.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

IIRC the clutch is hydraulic in your car and if so get the gear oil change and bleed the gearbox to have it free of air.

Then check if slotting is difficult. If yes then you'll have to change the clutch plate, pressure plate and clutch release bearings.

Even after changing the above you still feel it isn't ok, then you'll have to shifter linkages and bushes.

Checked the gear shift offline and found it to be OKayish but not very OK.

Also drove it yesterday to office to recheck all slotting combinations and found it to be irregularly hard i.e. same shift from N to 1 or 2 to 3 would feel comfortable sometimes but difficult at other times.

Seems clutch change is inevitable. Will get it checked for offline/engine-off status too with added knowledge now.

There was another problem too. Some 2 weeks ago, on starting, there was big noise from bonnet as if something stuck in fan. Opened the bonnet and realised that the noise was coming from under the top left end. Thought of taking it to dealership immediately but noise subsided after 10 minutes. Thereafter, every morning (i.e. whenever I use it) when started there is this noise but much less now which subsides after 10 minutes. What could be it?

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by modisan

There was another problem too. Some 2 weeks ago, on starting, there was big noise from bonnet as if something stuck in fan. Opened the bonnet and realised that the noise was coming from under the top left end. Thought of taking it to dealership immediately but noise subsided after 10 minutes. Thereafter, every morning (i.e. whenever I use it) when started there is this noise but much less now which subsides after 10 minutes. What could be it?

Looks like Fiat's Achilles heel "the Timing Chain" is the reason here. Search the forum to find out what sort of monetary, mechanical and other damages this darn thing can do when it fails.

Don't drive any further until this issue is resolved.

[modisan]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

Looks like Fiat's Achilles heel "the Timing Chain" is the reason here. Search the forum to find out what sort of monetary, mechanical and other damages this darn thing can do when it fails.

Don't drive any further until this issue is resolved.

Scary! Just read some posts in some threads. Seems will have to dedicate more time reading this. However, this issue was there before last service some 12 days back (when it was picked up and so I could not mention to them) and they did not detect it.

Wondering if any such damage is covered under extended warranty? Mine is Emotion 2011 (not Emotion Pack).

[GrayBerry]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Do you have the receipt of the EW amount payment? If so ,.......... when it comes to Fiat.

Originally Posted by 90Horses

There are some nice chaps at Vecto, ask for Dayanand (Crm) he will sort out the issue.

Thanks, will work wiht Dayanand and if required will reach out to Fiat India.

[modisan]

Per feedback above, took Punto to torque fiat in gurgaon yesterday. Though timing chain noise was there for only about 1-2 minutes at start and gone by the time I reached there and told them about it, they suggested a change. Didn't want to take any chances so asked for it. Trying to attach prov bill picture here totalling to 10.2k. Adhesives worth 3200!! Guy says these are some special rings/packing.

Also told them of hard gear/clutch issue. Guy checked and told master cylinder was leaking and needs to be changed. Cost 1800 plus labour (which he didn't know). Asked him if clutch plates were OK? He asked if it were not changed yet. When I said no, he peeped into open bonnet and said of course they are gone too!! I told service manager to ask his guys to have a better look and advise if it can run another 10k with master cylinder replacement itself. He said fine but forgot to transmit the message. Had a meeting to rush to so I asked them not to touch any clutch part and just do the timing thing. Now timing is done and I am wondering if I can get the thing done outside. Any good mechanic in gurgaon? Source of parts? 99rpm had it. How long do they take to deliver? Do they support with getting them replaced with a network of mechanics? Sorry for asking too much.

Sorry for typos in previous post. Will try to review before posting through app next time.

Attaching picture if provisional bill here. They agreed to a good discount of 2.5k on it as its my 3rd visit in 3 weeks (for brakes, then service, now timing chain and clutch still pending)

[vibbs]

You can defenitely try 99rpm to source the parts however make sure that you get the replacement done by a trusted experienced mechanic if getting done outside Fiat.

I had recently ordered a Linea drivers arm rest for my Punto from 99rpm and they shipped it in 3-4 days. So I believe them to be reasonably quick. Of course it will depend on availability too.

[lapis_lazuli]

My car is almost 31k kms, and I want to get the brake pads changed. It's still running on the stock pads. I enquired at the various ASS, and while the brake pad costs are same at all outlets, at 3289, the labour varies like crazy.

Mind you, I am just asking for the brake pad change, and not the disks.

The various response I got:

1) Kashyap FIAT: This is the authorised, flagship outlet. This highly arrogant Service manager, Lalit Gaur, states it is a staggering 750 + taxes almost 900 Rupees as labour for changing pads alone, and skimming is 1100 rupees plus taxes which he "guarantees" will be required. Yeah, right!

2) Oberoi FIAT : 450 plus taxes

3) Tuli FIAT : 400 plus taxes

4) DRS FIAT Gurgaon: 650 plus taxes

5) FNG : 150

6) DIY Priceless.

I wrote to Mangesh and asked for the recommended labour rate. He forwards the mail to a new Territory manager, Tanuj Gupta. He doesnt reply. I sent a reminder, to which Mangesh promptly replies, saying Tanuj is sick, so can't reply now. Fine. No problem I will wait. Endlessly even !

The only consistent person I have interacted with, so far, from FIAT, is Mangesh. But, despite his best efforts, it always feels like he is intentionally suppressing info and his feelings of helplessness with the various ASS. Stubborn, stubborn ASS!

My point is, even with all the talks of a centralized DMS "Dealer management System" for transparent rates, once again, it has been proved it is far from reality, as far as implementing it is concerned. I had posted the authorised rate card earlier, if you remember, and not a single dealer follows it.

How much do you typically pay for this job?

FIAT hasn't changed....

I am going DIY or FNG way, with OEM pads sourced from Batra Automobiles in Delhi.

The car: ripens well! No complaints! I have sworn not to post <another smiley> any more accounts of mileages I manage to extract from the 1.2 mill; and yes, it has new shoes: CEAT Milaze...very silent!