[Crank]

Originally Posted by KnightRider77

Why not give the Verna a try then? I heard they've tweaked the suspension a bit, and it's a VFM car at the price range considering the equipment list that comes with it.

I didn't consider Verna for the following reasons.

1. Stability not so good
2. Ride not up to mark
3. Lesser performance
4. Overall build quality is not as good as Vento or Sunny or Rapid

I am going to do a TD of Sunny. Will update soon on that.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by Crank

Did a TD of Vento TDI few days back. Engine seemed to be smoother to start and move around within 30-40 kmph. More than that Diesel starts sounding more. The clutch was a bit hard and I particularly felt a bit difficult in shifting from 1-2 and 2-3. Not sure whether it was a problem with the test vehicle. Wife felt the seats were a bit hard, though the ride quality was good considering the fact that the TD was done on a rough road with a lot of potholes.

I felt, for almost 12L OTR Chennai, the kit I get in the Vento is very less. Even the navigation cum bluetooth add on to the highline is a separate Garmin unit and does not come integrated with the ICE. Due to this the phone call button on steering is just a dummy. Felt that the plastic was hard though interior looks good though not excellent. To me it looked more like a 7L car than a 12L one. The sales person said that what we pay for is only for the engine, transmission, suspension and build quality.

Before the TD I was almost sure that I'll go to a Volkswagen showroom and just order a Vento. But the TD left me thinking once again. Vento or Sunny or even City.

When will Indians get value for their money?

If you like the car mechanically, then why not try the Rapid? The elegance will be cheaper than the Vento HL by almost a lakh and you could add navigation systems / bluetooth at a much lesser cost. Well if you did not like the vento's interiors, then the sunny is far behind. If you do not want diesel, then the city s make much better sense. It does not have bluetooth either.

Originally Posted by KnightRider77

Why not give the Verna a try then? I heard they've tweaked the suspension a bit, and it's a VFM car at the price range considering the equipment list that comes with it.

In the end, the car is something both your wife and you enjoy driving in, and if the Vento doesn't fit the bill and the Verna or any of the cars do, go ahead by all means.

Verna VFM? I'm not sure about the prices of different variants, but the verna's 1.6 diesel starts some where around 11.5 lakhs OTR bangalore when I checked it out. And that is more or less at par with the vento. Yes, the verna does have better interiors and may offer some extra features, but mechanically and in terms of driving dynamics it still has a lot to cover up when compared to the VW / SKODA siblings.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by KnightRider77

Why not give the Verna a try then? I heard they've tweaked the suspension a bit, and it's a VFM car at the price range considering the equipment list that comes with it.

In the end, the car is something both your wife and you enjoy driving in, and if the Vento doesn't fit the bill and the Verna or any of the cars do, go ahead by all means.

lol - so if I plug in a few extra equipment in the Vento and increase the price marginally, it becomes VFM? Wonder if the basic aspects of the car (power/acceleration/handling/suspension/build) matter more or the equipment!

Pray, do elucidate how you find a car VFM - would be interested to know!


Edit: The tone of the post might be sarcastic, but the question is genuine!

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Pray, do elucidate how you find a car VFM - would be interested to know!


Edit: The tone of the post might be sarcastic, but the question is genuine!

Ninja I do find the Verna VFM! Its the cheapest sedan with 6 airbags on board. So if you wanted that then it is VFM. Also its quite VFM for somebody looking for a city car. The stability/dynamics of a Vento or Fiesta are in picture if you do 100+ speeds consistently but will Verna be much different if you only do 80 or so?

4000+ people every month vouch for it. Something has to be right isint it?

[Rufus_M]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Ninja I do find the Verna VFM! Its the cheapest sedan with 6 airbags on board. So if you wanted that then it is VFM. Also its quite VFM for somebody looking for a city car. The stability/dynamics of a Vento or Fiesta are in picture if you do 100+ speeds consistently but will Verna be much different if you only do 80 or so?

4000+ people every month vouch for it. Something has to be right isint it?

+1,
What might be VFM for me, may not be VFM for you. The word VFM does not have a proper definition. At the risk of goin OT let me add some points.
* For the kind of equipment they provide, Verna is a good buy. Would I buy a Verna if I was in the market for a sedan? No!( No offence meant to Verna owners). Ride & Handling are most important for me. Punto has spoilt me!!

* 95% of the aam junta don't bother about Ride & Handling. If they cared for it, Linea would've been a chart topper!! Fiat is selling low double digit numbers.

* Vento is a good car, albeit a little overpriced for what it offers. Only if VW could get their act together in A**. VW dealers are the most arrogant bunch that I've come across.

[KnightRider77]

Originally Posted by Crank

I didn't consider Verna for the following reasons.

1. Stability not so good
2. Ride not up to mark
3. Lesser performance
4. Overall build quality is not as good as Vento or Sunny or Rapid

I am going to do a TD of Sunny. Will update soon on that.

All I said was to give it a try, as in Test Drive. Don't go entirely by what experts post (with all due respect to them), because it's you who's going to spend time in the car and so make your own judgement as to whether the handling, stability, etc is what you desire. It may not be up to the exacting standards of enthusiasts but a test drive should be able to give you a fair idea to make further calls.

I myself have booked a Rapid, so there's no reason for me to be biased towards Verna. I'm just calling it as I see it.

Originally Posted by motorworks

Verna VFM? I'm not sure about the prices of different variants, but the verna's 1.6 diesel starts some where around 11.5 lakhs OTR bangalore when I checked it out.

In which case you would be right but I thought the OTR (Bangalore) price for the 1.6 Diesel SX VTVT is around 10.35L mark. At least it is according to carwale. When did you last check the price?

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

lol - so if I plug in a few extra equipment in the Vento and increase the price marginally, it becomes VFM? Wonder if the basic aspects of the car (power/acceleration/handling/suspension/build) matter more or the equipment!

Pray, do elucidate how you find a car VFM - would be interested to know!

As someone said, if power/acceleration/suspension/handling/whatever is more important then your parameters for what constitutes a VFM may differ, but I don't believe I'm being controversial by saying that for many, a VFM would offer somewhat differently tangible in terms of creature comforts and equipment checklist. Certainly, when it comes to city driving, power/acceleration and suspension may not be so important a criteria than reverse parking cameras, or ABS with EBD might be.

Anyway, the only reason I suggested the Verna was because the OP didn't seem to happy with the Vento. I would have suggested Rapid (which is even more attractively priced than the Vento) but there's really very little to differentiate the Vento to the Rapid in terms of handling and power.

[ninjatalli]

FYI - long post. Please bear.

Originally Posted by KnightRider77

In which case you would be right but I thought the OTR (Bangalore) price for the 1.6 Diesel SX VTVT is around 10.35L mark. At least it is according to carwale. When did you last check the price?

Diesel & VTVT? You got them a bit mixed up buddy!

but there's really very little to differentiate the Vento to the Rapid in terms of handling and power.

Agree on that. Even I keep suggesting the Rapid over the Vento (with a disclaimer on the A$$) to one and all.

As someone said, if power/acceleration/suspension/handling/whatever is more important then your parameters for what constitutes a VFM may differ, but I don't believe I'm being controversial by saying that for many, a VFM would offer somewhat differently tangible in terms of creature comforts and equipment checklist. Certainly, when it comes to city driving, power/acceleration and suspension may not be so important a criteria than reverse parking cameras, or ABS with EBD might be.

Can't disagree with that either. My point of raising the query earlier was - as BHPians I would probably expect the majority of the junta out here to give these factors (the first list) more importance than a set of extra equipments that one views more of a luxury factor than necessity.

Originally Posted by joslicx

Ninja I do find the Verna VFM! Its the cheapest sedan with 6 airbags on board. So if you wanted that then it is VFM. Also its quite VFM for somebody looking for a city car. The stability/dynamics of a Vento or Fiesta are in picture if you do 100+ speeds consistently but will Verna be much different if you only do 80 or so?

Honestly I don't find the Verna, Vento or the Fiesta to be VFM by a long margin. That was the original point I was trying to make. Infact I remember raising this question on this very thread a few months ago when someone mentioned that the Vento was looking VFM (due to some discounts).

What I understand from your post is you are giving importance to the 6 airbags - the value of this for you is upmost and hence the increase in value aspect. I don't.

For me, @mikon's car, the Vento TL is VFM. My only grouse - they should have atleast given ABS on that car. At a risk of getting blown away by many, I don't consider the airbags 100% necessity; certainly not on the importance level as putting on seat belts and avoiding drink&drive. Maybe I am being naive/stupid, but that is something I believe.

4000+ people every month vouch for it. Something has to be right isint it?

Well let's not get into that area - we are more well-informed than to take that as an importance stat. The numbers of Swift vs the numbers of Punto : that is a stat I'll take into consideration when comparing both cars.

As a colleague who recently bought the Verna over the Vento openly commented when I inquired the reasons - I wanted the bling factor (read:equipment). He was ready to spend the extra $$ to go for the SX(O) version.

Originally Posted by Rufus_M

+1,
Would I buy a Verna if I was in the market for a sedan? No!( No offence meant to Verna owners). Ride & Handling are most important for me. Punto has spoilt me!!

+1 to this. On both points.

[Crank]

Originally Posted by KnightRider77

In which case you would be right but I thought the OTR (Bangalore) price for the 1.6 Diesel SX VTVT is around 10.35L mark. At least it is according to carwale. When did you last check the price?

VTVT is petrol Diesel equivalent to Vento Highline with that 6 air bags is Hyundai Verna Fluidic 1.6 CRDI SX Opt. Carwale OTR Chennai for that is 12,83,052, which is almost 1.2L more than the Vento Highline Diesel. Hence it is certainly not VFM. Its even more costly considering Volkwagen's finance options - 5.99% p.a.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Can't disagree with that either. My point of raising the query earlier was - as BHPians I would probably expect the majority of the junta out here to give these factors (the first list) more importance than a set of extra equipments that one views more of a luxury factor than necessity.

+1.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Honestly I don't find the Verna, Vento or the Fiesta to be VFM by a long margin. That was the original point I was trying to make. Infact I remember raising this question on this very thread a few months ago when someone mentioned that the Vento was looking VFM (due to some discounts).

Very true. I remember posting on another thread (I hope its - Are we Indians being ripped off?). None of the cars is VFM. I came from UK a few months back and was searching for a car to replace my aged Zen. And that's when Vento came into my radar. My wife was saying that she does not see much difference on comparison with our Zen VXI regarding the kit or interior styling. I know its a bit too much. But that says clearly that she is not impressed.

Did a second TD on Vento on a much better route and a longer one. Felt now a bit more comfortable. But I am not able to go beyond 2500 rpm in any gear. My friend says, probably that's due to my driving style. I may have to hit the pedal harder.

Saw a Sunny today in the showroom. Its roomy. But again the interiors has nothing to talk about. Doing a TD today evening. Let me see whether the drive impresses me.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

For me, @mikon's car, the Vento TL is VFM. My only grouse - they should have atleast given ABS on that car.

Very true. Safety standards in this part of world is not that much cared of. Probably human value is low here as per global standards. But I see Honda and Nissan are much responsible in this sense that they offer Airbags and ABS as standard.

[Crank]

For my mileage which would be around 10000 to 11000 kms per year, Honda City S MT seems to work out cheaper than the Vento TDI Highline. I know it's a bit odd to compare a petrol car with a Diesel. But still with that kind of mileage still petrol vs diesel comes into picture, considering the goodies the City comes with. Does Vento TDI make sense here?

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Can't disagree with that either. My point of raising the query earlier was - as BHPians I would probably expect the majority of the junta out here to give these factors (the first list) more importance than a set of extra equipments that one views more of a luxury factor than necessity.

ninja that again depends on one's priorities and requirements. There are fair few bhpians who own Vernas and who are probably as passionate autophiles as any. I can understand from where you come as you do fair amount of highway running but given the traffic in our cities (and it is only going to get worse), I guess somebody who is going to spend 350 out of 360 days in City traffic might have different priorities. Then the bells and whistles or the extra equipment might matter more.

What I understand from your post is you are giving importance to the 6 airbags - the value of this for you is upmost and hence the increase in value aspect. I don't.

Yes you got it right. My running is primarily in city only and given India's track record of accidents, I always value safety over everything else. If Vento had a variant with 6 airbags I'd have gone for that even if it was even more of a non-VFM than it currently is.

For me, @mikon's car, the Vento TL is VFM. My only grouse - they should have atleast given ABS on that car. At a risk of getting blown away by many, I don't consider the airbags 100% necessity; certainly not on the importance level as putting on seat belts and avoiding drink&drive. Maybe I am being naive/stupid, but that is something I believe.

I think if airbags have lived long enough to prove their worth. Agree about seatbelts (always wear them). Thing is with accidents, well they are accidents. Can happen anywhere, anytime. It wont always be your fault. Better to be prepared (thats why I value airbags).

If you ask me, theres only sedan that is VFM in this country and that is the fantastic Fiat Linea TJet. And it does not sell!!! Ok on second thoughts there are a few more like ANHC Corporate Ed, Superb Petrol.

Well let's not get into that area - we are more well-informed than to take that as an importance stat. The numbers of Swift vs the numbers of Punto : that is a stat I'll take into consideration when comparing both cars.

Well I remember some great debates over here on TBHP and one of them was between Honda (City) fans and Fiat (Linea) fans. Some people were adamant, given the prices at taht time, that City was not VFM while Linea was. Then one day GTO quipped with his bit of mind on that issue - ultimately it is the people who decide! All said and done, any arguments for or against, sales are the fairest indicator of that is what he said. I kind of didnt agree to him at that time (as I was biased against City) but kind of agree with it now!

[Crank]

OK did a TD of Sunny XV diesel. I was pleasantly surprised with the smooth engine that was more like a petrol than a diesel. I confirmed the dCi badge after the TD. The engine was so silky smooth - it runs like a dream diesel. However I had a difficulty in overtaking and have to reduce gears to get the pick up required. But my wife very much complained on the interiors though she liked the space. She is now in favour of Vento as it looked more premium. Also I was able to hear a lot of road noise. It is certainly not like that of Vento whose noise levels are almost nil at low speeds and at high speeds its just the sound from diesel motor and not the road noise. Also the overall build, fit and finish is much better in a Vento.

The sales person vouches that the ownership cost for Vento would be too higher than that of Sunny as he had worked in a Volkswagen showroom before.

From a drive-ability point of view, Sunny seems to be of my taste. However again its big let down in the interiors. Still thinking...

Originally Posted by joslicx

Yes you got it right. My running is primarily in city only and given India's track record of accidents, I always value safety over everything else.

Airbags - City drive - something is not right. With the City speeds I feel you'll not get into such an impact in any crash that will trigger the airbags. However I am not a car safety expert. It's just my view.

Originally Posted by joslicx

I think if airbags have lived long enough to prove their worth. Agree about seatbelts (always wear them). Thing is with accidents, well they are accidents. Can happen anywhere, anytime. It wont always be your fault. Better to be prepared (thats why I value airbags).

Agreed. But its also about what impact the car can handle and how much you may be tossed around during an impact. I feel much secure in a solidly built and a stable Vento than a Verna.

Note from Team-BHP Support: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by Crank

Airbags - City drive - something is not right. With the City speeds I feel you'll not get into such an impact in any crash that will trigger the airbags. However I am not a car safety expert. It's just my view.

There is an example on this very forum of a fellow member who had an accident in his brand new Brio (the very first day itself!) while stationary. Some other vehicle rammed into him. And his airbags deployed.

The thing is, with 2 airbags maybe you are protected to a certain extent from frontal collisions. But what if someone comes and rams into you from the side? Would curtain airbags help you save a limb? If they can, then they are worth it.

Anyway all expensive cars have multiple airbags in the name of safety. Jetta has 6/8. I'd want that option on Vento/Polo as well. I'd rather carmakers prioritize things like airbags, ESP, ABS+EBD, hill control, all disc brakes etc rather than fancy gizmos like tablets/bluetooth or sunroofs (taking a dig at City ).

Agreed. But its also about what impact the car can handle and how much you may be tossed around during an impact. I feel much secure in a solidly built and a stable Vento than a Verna.

Agreed. Thats why I bought the Vento Although since no NCAP ratings are available, I cannot say how scientific my feeling of Vento being more solid and hence safer is!

[rrnsss]

Completed 4500 Km on my Vento HL TDI. 99% of the kms spent between chennai and Pollachi.

I have no complaints about my car except for the silly placement of the wiper/headlight stalk and the single reverse light.

The car feels very very stable at high way speeds, very easy to drive, have scraped the bottom only once, so smooth and comfortable and surprisingly economical to run.

The simple dash is very easy on the eye during long night drives and even the music system is very unobtrusive.


The ABS kicked in during emergency braking once , and that was reassuring.

The car just works as it says on the box...!!! No rattling, no niggles.

I am very happy with my car so far.

[ashtorque]

VW is offering 0% finance OR benefits of 80k on its Trendline model. OTR Pune price comes to about 9.2 lakh, which seems to be good deal. However, you just can't like the Trendline! One can fit nice alloy wheels, paint the mirror cowls, door handles and add a music system for extra bucks but what do you do about the ordinary looking AC knobs? Not sure whether the lack of safety features (airbags, ABS) makes the deal worth?

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by ashtorque

VW is offering 0% finance OR benefits of 80k on its Trendline model. OTR Pune price comes to about 9.2 lakh, which seems to be good deal. However, you just can't like the Trendline! One can fit nice alloy wheels, paint the mirror cowls, door handles and add a music system for extra bucks but what do you do about the ordinary looking AC knobs? Not sure whether the lack of safety features (airbags, ABS) makes the deal worth?

I would reccommend considering the Skoda Rapid Ambition Plus variant instead. It comes with ABS and driver airbag and nice AC vents. Skoda swing system is included and also body colored mirrors and door handles. I am seriously considering this via-a-vis the Vento. Mechanically the same car and you can get it within 50K of the price you mention with the ongoing discounts.