[souravc]

Originally Posted by noopster

Apparently these features need to be re-activated at the DEALER'S before being handed over to the customer.

Wherever the VW dealers are involved there are these shortcomings !
I hope that with the new training centres coming up , the dealership personnel would be better trained and would be able to improve their performance. The customer's buying experience truly needs to go up by a few notches , its so pathetic if I compare it to say a Honda !

[nileshch]

Anybody know if this feature exists in the Indian version of the Vento?

If yes, anyone experienced this? I have not, at least till now. Should try it.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by nileshch

Anybody know if this feature exists in the Indian version of the Vento?

If yes, anyone experienced this? I have not, at least till now. Should try it.

Attachment 603364

I'm pretty sure that is an option only on cars which have ESP. So I doubt the Vento or Polo would have it.

[nileshch]

Originally Posted by akshay1234

I'm pretty sure that is an option only on cars which have ESP. So I doubt the Vento or Polo would have it.

Wouldn't ESP help in stabilizing the steering rather than maintaining the engine RPM?

I have noticed this though -- on a slope if I lift off my foot from the brake and accelerator when descending, the Vento keeps the engine running and goes down slowly, without knocking or slowing down, or even speeding up.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by souravc

Wherever the VW dealers are involved there are these shortcomings !
I hope that with the new training centres coming up , the dealership personnel would be better trained and would be able to improve their performance. The customer's buying experience truly needs to go up by a few notches , its so pathetic if I compare it to say a Honda !

That may be the case but sorry- it doesn't let the company off the hook.

I have visited the Chakan factory- they seem to take so much pride in what they have created. There are visits organised for MBA students, even schoolkids. And believe me, it is something to savour. I for once appreciate my car a lot better after being taken through the entire cycle of its "birth".

So why should a dealership be any different? As an automobile company, does my job stop at MANUFACTURING a great car? The marketing, selling and service of the vehicle is every bit as important. A car is a unique combination of a product and service in this regard.

If the dealers are a sorry bunch, VW has to take more than their share of responsibility for that. Training and motivating sales staff at dealerships is certainly smething VW should play a big role in. What sense does it make to say, We make great cars. Sadly our dealers are idiots who don't know how to sell them?

I have maintained from the beginning that the reason VW dealer staff come across as arrogant or inept is because of poor product knowledge and not having a view into the production pipeline (availability of models, accurate waiting periods etc.) Empowering your dealer staff is the only way you can ensure, as a company, that your customers are happy.

It's heartening that not all VW showroom staff behave the same way: in fact in Pune and Bangalore at least it seems we ave a decent alternative that should keep the "bad" dealer on their toes.

What's funny is that nobody at VW seems to care: Vento owners have been screaming themselves hoarse all over these forums and I for one have never heard of someone from the company (yes we know you're here) step up in an official capacity and accept that there is a problem and share some plan for resolving it. Well: all I can say is- your loss. Do you seriously think anyone who's anything but delighted with his ownership experience (of which, believe me, pre-sales is a big part) would ever go for the same brand again in future? How long will your "German engineering" fable last? Already the likes of BMW and Audi are stepping into your territory aggressively, and with cars getting cheaper in real terms than ever before, chances are you have closed THIS sale but lost a customer for life.

Apologies if I sound like a soapbox speaker- it's just something I needed to get off my chest for a while now.

[bala80]

Hill Hold Control doesnt have anything to do with the engine RPM. It holds the vehicle momentarily for defined period of time (few seconds) on an incline to help you release the hand brake and drive on as you would normally do on a level surface without having to half-clutch.

There is no way this feature will be available in the vento. Problem is the manual that we get hasnt been customized for the indian models.

What you described below is just the way diesel engine behaves. They maintain a anti-stall RPM in every gear which is programmed in the ECU. For example, engage the 3rd gear and remove your foot from the ACC pedal, your car will continue to coast at 30 kmph (approx) speeds. They neither slowdown nor speed up.

Originally Posted by nileshch

Wouldn't ESP help in stabilizing the steering rather than maintaining the engine RPM?

I have noticed this though -- on a slope if I lift off my foot from the brake and accelerator when descending, the Vento keeps the engine running and goes down slowly, without knocking or slowing down, or even speeding up.

Edit - @ Noopster - Well said, couldn't agree with you better. I hope the concerned people read this and do the needful.

[xingamazon]

Originally Posted by noopster

So why should a dealership be any different? As an automobile company, does my job stop at MANUFACTURING a great car? The marketing, selling and service of the vehicle is every bit as important. A car is a unique combination of a product and service in this regard.

If the dealers are a sorry bunch, VW has to take more than their share of responsibility for that. Training and motivating sales staff at dealerships is certainly smething VW should play a big role in. What sense does it make to say, We make great cars. Sadly our dealers are idiots who don't know how to sell them?

I do understand your passion and so do all the auto enthisiats share the same feeling like what you have explained. But the actual ground reality is very very different, believe me I have been very close to this topic thats why I am giving this picture to you.

There are lots and lots of problem companies like VW face, if one gets to know the problem they face, one will wonder how come they are still managing to stick to India and not quit India. I am trying to put few down here.
1. Disadvantage of being a late starter in getting dealerships:
VW being a later entrant, all the actual creame of people who want to start dealership would have already gone to Maruti /Hyundai / Toyota etc.
Every dealer is required to put crores of amount into the company, its very difficult to get someone who can do this for you.
2. Education among dealers:
If you check all the dealers atleast in Tamil Nadu you will see they are those who do not have much education with them but have loads of money. These are kind of dealers VW would have not seen elsewhere, but do they have a choice to select the dealer. No they do not.
3. Dealer upper hand:
If a company has a products to see 10K per month the company has upper hand, for companies like VW / Ford / Skoda. Its the dealer who have upper hand, they dictate terms with manufacturer than the other way round.
Ask any Maruti dealer how much he gets scared on getting a call from Maruti, but for VW its a manufacturer who gets scared on gettnig a call from dealer. There are people who threaten saying I will withdraw dealership, the regional sales managers do so much bargaining to make sure the dealer is cooled down.
4. Viscious circle of car sales:
I have mentioned this somewhere else too, the car market is vicious circle. Unlike for e.g. Micromax can come with low priced mobile and capture 20% market within 2 yrs. (it actually did that)
If a car brand comes with low price its not bought, mainly because there are no service support.
But on contrary you wont get much people willing to become dealer / service centers until you attain a healthy sales.

Its very difficult to break the vicious circle, thats the reason Fiat had give it up and moved its Marketing and Sales to Tata.

But Ford fought it hard and proved it wrong by getting Figo on track(but lost its game withe NFF again )
For VW I am sure they have their set of same problems.

Believe me its a matter of crores to get a dealer, its no easy job.

[noopster]

Reg. "hill hold control", for gentle upward slopes when I engage D, the car doesn't in fact move backward when I release the brake (the forward thrust balances the gravity effect), But this is common behaviour in an AT (even the Civic does this) and I am pretty sure this isn't the hillhold offered in other VW models like the Passat.

[aghosht]

Originally Posted by noopster

Reg. "hill hold control", for gentle upward slopes when I engage D, the car doesn't in fact move backward when I release the brake (the forward thrust balances the gravity effect), But this is common behaviour in an AT (even the Civic does this) and I am pretty sure this isn't the hillhold offered in other VW models like the Passat.

Noop the Jetta has this as well.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by souravc

Turning radius is not too much of a problem , there was a comparo vid of ACI on Vento and similar cars and Vento came out best ( not a great differentiating factor though IMO as everyone's within a narrow range) - neither am I going to take any names nor would I put any link here since I am pretty much through with comparisons . I own a Swift too and would say that the Vento is 15-20% worse off than the Swift , the light steering of the car helps.
For tight parking slots , its better if you have sensors and/or cameras since the rear view mirror is crap and the boot is a bit on the higher side.
I feel very scared of smashing into flower pots or obstacles which goes beneath the view of the mirror . In Mumbai when we park our car in roadside parking , the attendants make you park in the tightest of spots leaving enough space for only a Miss India slip out of either of the front door. The steering has little or no play so it helps to straighten the car and slot home. I believe Bala80 has the tightest parking amongst most of us so I would request him to share his experience.

Originally Posted by noopster

vb-san: Vento is a dream to park. I squeezed it in a barely-there spot yesterday in my apartment complex and was mighty proud of myself. The light steering helps no end. The back is a disaster visibility wiese so you'll need rear sensors or a helpful passenger-seat occupant (luckily I have both!)

Originally Posted by bala80

The turning radius on the paper is 5.4 mts, however in practice this car is a dream to park in tight spots. As souravc mentioned this was a very important criteria in my case as my home is located on a very narrow road and I need to reverse it into my parking slot over a steep ramp. Though it is not as easy as the swift (4.8 mts), what helps in tight parking situations is the straight lines on the sides without any bulges/curves (eg-swift) and hence fairly easy to make a judgement. I usually keep the left ORVM as the reference point and the only thing you need to practice is to reverse with the help of ORVM's (if you are not already used to it!) instead of turning around in the drivers seat, which is quite useless due to restricted rear view

Thanks Sourav, Noops and Bala!
This really helps in shortlisting procedure. Back visibility is not something I am really concerned about as I am used to park using the OVRMs (the Ford Ikon we have in Kerala is quite bad in the visibility aspect as well).

[bala80]

Xingamazon - As much as I appreciated noopster's post, I think you provided a very good perspective of the other side of the coin. Very educative post, thank you very much. Having said that, I sincerely hope VW pulls it socks up and puts an end to this.

Originally Posted by xingamazon

But the actual ground reality is very very different, believe me I have been very close to this topic thats why I am giving this picture to you.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by nileshch

I have noticed this though -- on a slope if I lift off my foot from the brake and accelerator when descending, the Vento keeps the engine running and goes down slowly, without knocking or slowing down, or even speeding up.

Yes, its mighty useful in the steep inclinded slopes of the parking lots of malls in Mumbai - though I have to add that there is no "hold" feature when going uphill.

Originally Posted by xingamazon

Believe me its a matter of crores to get a dealer, its no easy job.

Extremely well put . Apart from money, the dealerships are cornered by guys with connections too . One has to just look around and pick up the local gossip on dealerships of premier brands such as Toyota, Honda, etc in any city to figure it out .
Having said that, once WW has chosen to play the game - the staff at the dealerships needs to be educated about the company, product and the features . How many Vento owners can be expected to have discussions on a forum and figure out things about their car ?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by nileshch

Wouldn't ESP help in stabilizing the steering rather than maintaining the engine RPM?

I have noticed this though -- on a slope if I lift off my foot from the brake and accelerator when descending, the Vento keeps the engine running and goes down slowly, without knocking or slowing down, or even speeding up.

ESP has nothing to do with maintaining the engine rpm. Rather it keeps a car on track and stops it from sliding or skidding by braking each wheel individually or cutting engine power a bit sometimes. I think since ESP makes the ECU capable of using brakes, HHC is offered with that only since even with HHC the ECU would have to have a small control over the brakes.

[subodh]

Originally Posted by xingamazon

I do understand your passion and so do all the auto enthisiats share the same feeling like what you have explained. But the actual ground reality is very very different, believe me I have been very close to this topic thats why I am giving this picture to you.

There are lots and lots of problem companies like VW face, if one gets to know the problem they face, one will wonder how come they are still managing to stick to India and not quit India. I am trying to put few down here.
1. Disadvantage of being a late starter in getting dealerships:
VW being a later entrant, all the actual creame of people who want to start dealership would have already gone to Maruti /Hyundai / Toyota etc.
Every dealer is required to put crores of amount into the company, its very difficult to get someone who can do this for you.
2. Education among dealers:
If you check all the dealers atleast in Tamil Nadu you will see they are those who do not have much education with them but have loads of money. These are kind of dealers VW would have not seen elsewhere, but do they have a choice to select the dealer. No they do not.
3. Dealer upper hand:
If a company has a products to see 10K per month the company has upper hand, for companies like VW / Ford / Skoda. Its the dealer who have upper hand, they dictate terms with manufacturer than the other way round.
Ask any Maruti dealer how much he gets scared on getting a call from Maruti, but for VW its a manufacturer who gets scared on gettnig a call from dealer. There are people who threaten saying I will withdraw dealership, the regional sales managers do so much bargaining to make sure the dealer is cooled down.
4. Viscious circle of car sales:
I have mentioned this somewhere else too, the car market is vicious circle. Unlike for e.g. Micromax can come with low priced mobile and capture 20% market within 2 yrs. (it actually did that)
If a car brand comes with low price its not bought, mainly because there are no service support.
But on contrary you wont get much people willing to become dealer / service centers until you attain a healthy sales.

Its very difficult to break the vicious circle, thats the reason Fiat had give it up and moved its Marketing and Sales to Tata.

But Ford fought it hard and proved it wrong by getting Figo on track(but lost its game withe NFF again )
For VW I am sure they have their set of same problems.

Believe me its a matter of crores to get a dealer, its no easy job.

I appreciate your concern and your point of view and i am totally aware about the problems underpinning the dealerships but the point you are making, I do not agree 100%. Its abut business and providing what customers want. In simple terms, if you do not overcome your problems, you lose out on business and you cannot blame it on anyone. Companies like hyundai have come and set shop in India are delivering excellent service much better than companies which have been in India for donkeys years viz: fiat, tata and HM. So i would completely disagree that VW or for that matter any other company is at loss because they are starting late. IN fact its to their advantage to learn from other companies mistakes and implement in their showrooms.

COnsidering your second point, its not the owner of dealership who needs to be educated but the staff who works for them and which is something the company should strongly enforce. Things like starting from being courteous to customer, to providing exact product knowledge for customer to make a informed decision is a basic right of any customer in todays market.

3. Dealer might have a upper hand but its all about a companies business model and alignment of their dealers accordingly. Whatever said and done, that does not hamper the way customers are treated in their showroom. In todays market, companies are always looking at securing their bottom line and therefore have weird and stringent ways to appoint dealers. If the automotive companies are willing to pump in a little money, they can get excellent people for their dealership who are not only knowledgeable but also passionate about their work. You can look around yourself and figure that out in this forum. Automotive companies also need to align their goals, vision and mission with their dealers to provide a seamless experience in product, promotion and service.

[KPS]

If you look at the Vento dispatch figures for the last 4 months May - 2403, June - 2547, July - 2846 and August - 3019 and keeping mind that the waiting periods have come down quite a bit (especially in North) I would like to articulate the view VW has missed and opportunity to have flooded the market before the launch of the ANHV (August - 4211 units) and repriced ANHC (August - 5819 units). Vento is a good car but we needed a more aggressive VW

Request for comments

Cheers

KPS