[nitkel]

Originally Posted by Samurai

However, when we think across governments, the argument from VN does have merit. Why should country X benefit from the long term investments made by country Y?

Only if it were that simple to quantify.

And all who made the effort to emigrate would know that it was definitely not due to the governmental education system or support that they could.

Let's rest this mini OT discussion.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by nitkel

Only if it were that simple to quantify.

Well, if you had read the next sentence, you would have discovered that your point was already made.

Originally Posted by nitkel

Let's rest this mini OT discussion.

Discussion about emigration is not OT in this thread. Support team will take the final decision on what is OT.

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Well, if you had read the next sentence, you would have discovered that your point was already made.

Discussion about emigration is not OT in this thread. Support team will take the final decision on what is OT.

No your point was different than the point I made in my second line.

The government does very little or mostly nothing to make a person eligible to emigrate. It's that individual person's grit and ambition backed by support from friends/family that makes it happen. So it can't reasonably claim any benefits for that. Period.

Agreed that the support team makes the call on what is OT and not.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by nitkel

The government does very little or mostly nothing to make a person eligible to emigrate. It's that individual person's grit and ambition backed by support from friends/family that makes it happen. So it can't reasonably claim any benefits for that. Period.

Oh, then you are not discussing same thing as rest of us. We are not talking about unskilled labour.

We are talking about skilled professionals trained in India, using the subsidized education system (IIT/NIT or any merit seat) provided by government of India, funded by Indian tax payers. To get the same education in USA, Americans have to carry student loan burden for decades.

I didn't go to IIT/NIT, but I did get merit in a private engineering college. So I only paid ₹9000 tuition for my 4 year BE degree. I recall comparing notes with a colleague in US and we calculated that his similar degree at an ordinary college cost 200 times compared to mine. And he still had 15 years to pay off his loan.

But if the country does not have the enough career opportunities after that education, the point becomes moot.

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Oh, then you are not discussing same thing as rest of us. We are not talking about unskilled labour.
We are talking about skilled professionals trained in India, using the subsidized education system (IIT/NIT or any merit seat) provided by government of India, funded by Indian tax payers. To get the same education in USA, Americans have to carry student loan burden for decades.

Sorry but I ain't talking about unskilled labour either.

A majority of the skilled people who emigrate didn't study in IITs, NITs and the rest of the subsidized institutions, nor did they have any merit/reserved seat if they belonged to the open category and/or were not top of the class.

They did so through private institutions solely based on their parents/guardians income which was already taxed in all probability.

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by Samurai

We are talking about skilled professionals trained in India, using the subsidized education system (IIT/NIT or any merit seat) provided by government of India, funded by Indian tax payers. To get the same education in USA, Americans have to carry student loan burden for decades.

This is not fully correct. When you study in a public university in the US and are an in-state student, you get a significantly subsidized education also in the US. A lot of American students carry loan burden because they pay for their own education (tuition and living expenses) unlike in India where our parents go to extreme lengths to pay and get the best possible education they can afford.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by nitkel

They did so through private institutions solely based on their parents/guardians income which was already taxed in all probability.

This is mostly what I've seen as well. While obviously there have been several graduates who have emigrated, who were from the institutes of national importance where their education was subsidized, everyone I know personally, who has emigrated after school, college, or through career shifts have been schooled at private educational institutions with no government funding, or were working at private companies. And since most of us were raised in Bangalore, raised using private electricity and water supply as well! (Mostly a joke, that last bit, but I think most Bangaloreans will understand given our woes with KEB/BESCOM and BWSSB!)

So I'm not sure how much justification an emigration tax can have, on top of all that private outlay on the part of their parents. All post-tax income of course. And sounds like the ones who do emigrate from the best institutions that do benefit from government subsidies represent a very small fraction.

And when has it ever been easy for someone to emigrate from India to a Western country? Perhaps a small fraction of emigrants have been actively courted and 'lured'. But I think the majority of the rest really need to work at it. I've seen most of my friends jump through hoops with the paperwork and having to work really hard for years to make the move. More than a few took loans to fund their masters degrees abroad as well.

Perhaps there will come a time when the entities, be it countries or companies, that are worried about the flight of their best people could instead think about ways to keep them here? Voluntarily, not with punitive measures or emotional appeals. Or even go a step further- attract the brightest from outside the country as well, starting with our immediate neighbors. I think it's already happening. I see a lot of foreign students applying and studying at several colleges in Bangalore.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I recall comparing notes with a colleague in US and we calculated that his similar degree at an ordinary college cost 200 times compared to mine. And he still had 15 years to pay off his loan.

I wonder if you compared notes with individuals across the globe and the college education costs they incurred. I have limited data on higher education costs in other markets (say in Europe or Australia or Canada) but I feel we seem to making the wrong assumption of US as the global benchmark and IIT/NITs (/govt institutions) as the local benchmark for education costs repeatedly on this thread.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by nitkel

A majority of the skilled people who emigrate didn't study in IITs, NITs and the rest of the subsidized institutions, nor did they have any merit/reserved seat if they belonged to the open category and/or were not top of the class.

Originally Posted by Theyota

unlike in India where our parents go to extreme lengths to pay and get the best possible education they can afford.

Good Grief... I am repeatedly saying I am talking about those who DID get subsidized education, and you guys are insisting there are people who didn't get subsidized education. I got subsidizing education, so clearly there are people like me who got subsidized education.

I am saying cow has 4 legs, and you guys are insisting not everything that has 4 legs is a cow. Of course, you are right. You have proved me wrong, let's move on.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I wonder if you compared notes with individuals across the globe and the college education costs they incurred.

Why would I talk about countries I am not familiar with? BTW, most people I know go to USA, so that is my benchmark.

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I wonder if you compared notes with individuals across the globe and the college education costs they incurred. I have limited data on higher education costs in other markets (say in Europe or Australia or Canada) but I feel we seem to making the wrong assumption of US as the global benchmark and IIT/NITs (/govt institutions) as the local benchmark for education costs repeatedly on this thread.

It's mostly free in western Europe. Even for higher education, and sometimes they get paid monthly allowances on top! So they in fact graduate with almost no debt.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by nitkel

It's mostly free in western Europe.

Not in Britain, where students also graduate with debt.

[amitoj]

Instead of levying a tax on other countries for benefiting from subsidized education provided in India, it would be easier for Indian government to impose mandatory service for those receiving subsidized education within India before allowing them to emigrate. I believe doctors already do something similar where they have to practice in a rural area (at least it used to be the case several years ago)

Getting other countries to pay is nothing but a pipe dream.

[Waheedy]

Being a professional in the middle east & a future immigrant to the west, i can safely confirm that the amount of remittance being sent back to India, is way more than what we could have afforded/contributed back there, to which the more seasoned here can confirm, stands true, even after they renounce their Indian passport.

So my two cents would be, that if Developed countries were to pay Developing countries for the brain gain, then in most probability they would also try to save on their money drain.

So to me the current scenario appears like a win win situation for both countries and people like us, who are able to secure a better standard of life along the way.

Cheers..!!

[androdev]

I recently visited Durgapur SAIL (steel authority of India) factory and I saw a gentleman watching YouTube review of his potential new hatchback at his desk. He is a metallurgical engineering graduate from IIT Kharagpur. I don't recall his name that well, I think it's Sundar Pichai or something.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by androdev

I recently visited Durgapur SAIL (steel authority of India) factory and I saw a gentleman watching YouTube review of his potential new hatchback at his desk. He is a metallurgical engineering graduate from IIT Kharagpur. I don't recall his name that well, I think it's Sundar Pichai or something.

Was he taking care of his parents and in laws?