[Samurai]

Originally Posted by androdev

I saw a gentleman watching YouTube review of his potential new hatchback at his desk. He is a metallurgical engineering graduate from IIT Kharagpur.

You really have very low opinion of IITians...

This is a true story that happened to my former colleague (settled in US), who is also from IIT-KGP. Few years ago he had renewed a old friendship with an old batchmate who never left India. The batchmate asked him to visit him at his workplace somewhere near Jamshedpur. When my colleague landed at Kolkota, he expected his next ride to be a taxi, but he was shocked when he was taken to a private jet to fly to Jamshedpur. His India based batchmate could command a private jet to pick up a friend.

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by nitkel

It's mostly free in western Europe. Even for higher education, and sometimes they get paid monthly allowances on top! So they in fact graduate with almost no debt.

What is free and for whom?

Tuition fee for public schooling (local language only) is free. I vaguely remember, tuition fee at university is dependent on income range. This is for Italy. Don't remember tuition fee being free in Germany either. I've heard something on this lines only in Nordic countries, but don't think its at all levels.

It certainly is not as expensive as what you pay across the pond.

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by narayans80

What is free and for whom? -----
It certainly is not as expensive as what you pay across the pond.

It's free in public schools in France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. for primary and secondary education. For citizens and even for children of PR and, in some cases, long term visa holders.

Regarding public universities, free in some and not so in others. Still the costs are comparable to universities in India.

Of course private schools and unis will be more expensive.

[download2live]

Elections will be concluded soon in Australia. And no matter which party come to power, it is expected that migration floodgates will be opened to prop up the economy and soften the blow of oncoming recession.

If anyone is planning to file a PR the it might be a good time to keep an eye on the incoming changes in rules.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Not in Britain, where students also graduate with debt.

Not to negate your post which is factually correct, but let me put things in perspective.

'Home' students in the UK pay a flat rate of about 9 grand / 12.5k US a year. They get a loan at index rate +3% on this. They also get similar loans for living. The UK PPP income is about 50k US. A student essentially pays 25% of the per capita income as tuition fees. Loan repayments only kick in if you earn above a hurdle rate, and are forgiven after some years (15?) if you haven't earned enough by then. It's hard to imagine a cushier system that isn't free.

Indian IIT annual fees are 2.3 lakhs / 3000 USD on average. India's PPP income per capita is about 7k USD. So an Indian pays 42% of annual average income for a decent technical education, as opposed to 25% in the UK. Mind you, this is what counts as 'heavily subsidised' in India. Of course, in India private colleges charge way more.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Not to negate your post which is factually correct, but let me put things in perspective...

Thanks for that. I'm British, but so old that, had I gone to University, it would then have been free, with a grant to at least contribute a major part of the cost of living. I was lazy: I didn't get there.

I did not have any children, so I never had any reason to know the details. My personal/political view is certainly that it should still be free, but that is irrelevant and nothing but a wild dream in any conceivable present-day British government.

Thanks for the detail and perspective.

[ads11]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Not to negate your post which is factually correct, but let me put things in perspective.

'Home' students in the UK pay a flat rate of about 9 grand / 12.5k US a year. They get a loan at index rate +3% on this. They also get similar loans for living. The UK PPP income is about 50k US. A student essentially pays 25% of the per capita income as tuition fees. Loan repayments only kick in if you earn above a hurdle rate, and are forgiven after some years (15?) if you haven't earned enough by then. It's hard to imagine a cushier system that isn't free.

I'd hardly say it's cushy. I have senior colleagues at work who have had their monthly pay go down last month due to the change in the student loan repayment structure and these are people who've already been working nearly a decade post undergrad (forget masters).

Here is a breakdown:

For example, if you did a three-year course at £9,250 a year and got £6,378 a year for a maintenance loan, you'd graduate with £46,884 of debt. That's before you add interest, which is between 9% and 12%.

And that's taking some very average figures on the cost for halls, which having worked in halls at Imperial and at Manchester, I can only say has gone up massively as the older cheaper halls are all knocked down in favour of Holiday Inn style identikit offerings (honestly there's a viral story here about a student who worked out it was cheaper to live in a Holiday Inn than uni accommodation).

Furthermore while the current system has you repaying your student loan for 30 years, those starting uni from this year will be repaying for 40 years after they graduate before the loans get wiped off. And they're lowering the earnings threshold at which you have to start repaying.

It's hardly a cushy system I'd say, and definitely untrue to say that students in the west graduate without debt (far far from it in the UK at the very least). In fact as Thad points out, the whole system is ridiculous. Each successive govt just seems to ignore the ballooning student debt bill and kick the can down the road.

What you've seen at uni's in the UK is that they've adopted the worst elements of the US system in a race to justify the threefold increase in fees (I was the last year of the ~£3k/yr fees), with a bloated management structure and focus on building new swanky halls and canteens instead of actually paying the academic staff.

Anyway, that's my UK academia tangent for this thread done.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by ads11

I'd hardly say it's cushy. I have senior colleagues at work who have had their monthly pay go down last month due to the change in the student loan repayment structure and these and are people who've already been working nearly a decade post undergrad (forgot masters).

Meh, cry me a river. Did your colleagues not know that increased repayments mean that net income decreases? Floating rates work like that. Really hope that wasn't a finance degree they got.

The British seem to whine every opportunity they get, after mismanaging the hell out of their economy, their politics, their immigration for decades.

Of course it's cushy. I literally pointed out how Indians pay a lot more in PPP for their education, and that's the 'heavily subsidized' government education we're talking about. Private education in India is up to 10x more expensive. This is strictly a first world problem, of their own making.

Having lived in that country for a decade, give or take, it amazes me how British students are happy to take on debt. Part time jobs for students, paying a decent minimum wage, are easily available. Yet you will only find EU (well not anymore) students or Asian students working them. Locals will take on a temporary job to buy a new car or phone, but that's it. Now that the debt's biting them on the bum, everyone's all OMG why is the world so unfair.

If you choose to take an easy loan over working the hours, that's really your own outlook.

NB. My vitriol isn't directed at you ads11 or Thad. I'm just appalled by how entitled some first-world people (and their problems) are.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

... ... ... I'm just appalled by how entitled some first-world people (and their problems) are.

Well, my aged perspective is that those people used to get jobs, post-graduation, and start on a long slow struggle to be able to afford to buy a house on a mortgage. Now they leave college with a mortgage-size debt. Concrete boots anybody?

How is this a factor in this thread anyway? Most people are going to be considerably past college days by the time they emigrate, are they not? But they have to consider the present/future kids.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Well, my aged perspective is that those people used to get jobs, post-graduation, and start on a long slow struggle to be able to afford to buy a house on a mortgage. Now they leave college with a mortgage-size debt. Concrete boots anybody?

My (slightly less) aged perspective is that these folks are unlikely to find sympathy from the people of a country that is less than a sixth as rich. No one in the UK is ever without a social net that Indians are literally dying for.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Concrete boots anybody?

Hahahaha sorry but that reminded me of John Roselli and Jimmy Hoffa.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

How is this a factor in this thread anyway? Most people are going to be considerably past college days by the time they emigrate, are they not? But they have to consider the present/future kids.

Most Indians who immigrate now, or at least on this thread, are knowledge workers. In a few years, such people can afford private schooling, and houses and cars bought without debt, even in the UK. Few things in this world are as powerful as a first-gen Indian immigrant's work and saving ethic, compounded by a white-collar degree.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Few things in this world are as powerful as a first-gen Indian immigrant's work and saving ethic, compounded by a white-collar degree.

Things are changing man, many people who are migrating especially from reasonable backgrounds no longer want to just work super hard and save at any cost. They want to explore and enjoy themselves as well.

Case in point my brother and me. Both knowledge workers with similar job profiles and around 2 decades of experience Only difference being I am in India with he being in USA for his entire working experience.

We actually have similar savings. And no he cannot afford to send his kid to private school or buy a house in cash.

He lives a reasonable life. Not lavish but he lives like a typical US upper middle class couple would live.
He travels around has decent cars live in a good house a decent neighborhood.

The penny pinching work your ass off for the future generation desi stereotype may not be as widely applicable.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

My (slightly less) aged perspective is that these folks are unlikely to find sympathy from the people of a country that is less than a sixth as rich. No one in the UK is ever without a social net that Indians are literally dying for.

I'm not asking for sympathy for them. This is entirely about the future of people from here who join them --- and the subsequent costs.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

He lives a reasonable life. Not lavish but he lives like a typical US upper middle class couple would live.
He travels around has decent cars live in a good house a decent neighborhood.

The penny pinching work your ass off for the future generation desi stereotype may not be as widely applicable.

Haha fair enough. I bought a sports car when I began working. However, you'll find that because these immigrants are tech/fin/med workers, their average income is high. Their children thus grow up with upper-class comforts, and will also likely inherit a house. They are unlikely to be the 'first to go to college / university, first home owner in the family' sort.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I'm not asking for sympathy for them. This is entirely about the future of people from here who join them --- and the subsequent costs.

As above, immigrant children begin with advantages compared to the average homegrown ones. Less concrete boots, more swimming in jeans.

[Akshay6988]

Folks need advice on money transfers to and fro India to Ireland (EU countries). My sister is going for masters and to pay college fees n such, I'm seeking advice here.

Should I let the educational loan financing bank handle all of the process ?
Should I approach any forex agency for these transactions ?
Any recommendations for trustworthy agencies are welcome ! I've gotten recommendation for R.R.S.B forex agency, has anyone used their services ?
Also what can be the most convenient and cheaper option to transfer to money to someone in Ireland ?
I really appreciate all the help.

[dragracer567]

If the remittance is less than INR 6,50,000, then wise.com is a good option. I frequently used it to send money to my Indian account when I lived in Belgium and still use it from Spain, they generally give very competitive rates and are quite reliable.

For remittances out of India, there is a limit of 6,50,000 INR (not for remittances into India).

Originally Posted by Akshay6988

Folks need advice on money transfers to and fro India to Ireland (EU countries). My sister is going for masters and to pay college fees n such, I'm seeking advice here.

Should I let the educational loan financing bank handle all of the process ?
Should I approach any forex agency for these transactions ?
Any recommendations for trustworthy agencies are welcome ! I've gotten recommendation for R.R.S.B forex agency, has anyone used their services ?
Also what can be the most convenient and cheaper option to transfer to money to someone in Ireland ?
I really appreciate all the help.