[akhil994]

As someone who has just emigrated about a couple of months back, I have been looking at this thread with a very keen eye, going through the various observations of so many esteemed members, some of who have been on both sides of the fences and share their views based on experience.

I do however feel that there is a hostile response that some members have faced with regards to their viewpoints shared in the thread recently, which is something very rare for our platform. I don't think people here can significantly change someone's rationale for choosing to or not choosing to emigrate through this forum.
People are generally convinced of their beliefs and calling them out on that is not something that is befitting of our forum.

Coming to the topic at hand, there are so many factors at play here that is becomes really tough to actually understand factors at play here behind every individual's decision and without a holistic picture, it really doesn't help.

I completely respect people's opinions for not choosing to emigrate and of course would expect the same respect for those who chose to move, without being made to feel that the decision has to be debated or justified to anyone.


I personally chose to move because of the quality of life, specifically fresh air. As someone who suffers extremely every year in Delhi due to high levels of pollution, to the point where I had become borderline asthmatic, I figured this is the best move for myself. The rest of the factors of course are an added advantage, but when one is suffering for something as basic as breathing fresh air, it really does not matter what opportunities the land offers.

Which is very unfortunate of course.


P.S As a car enthusiast, the fact is undeniable that buying that car of your dreams is so much easier in the west as compared to India.

Akhil

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by akhil994

P.S As a car enthusiast, the fact is undeniable that buying that car of your dreams is so much easier in the west as compared to India.

Finally someone had to state the obvious in an auto enthusiasts forum! Thanks

A salaried person can either watch their CM been driven in a LR Defender while they wait for 30 minutes on the road which was blocked for the CM to whiz past with a cavalcade of 10 cars or give up something in return for the opportunity to own that LR Defender abroad and enjoy it. Tread your own path.

[Malyaj]

Decisions like these look good or bad in hindsight and are not knee jerk but creep on. Not everyone who is 'settled' abroad knew that they were going to embrace it for good. Similarly not everyone who is in India did so out of a conscious decision. I fall in the second category. I will be dishonest if I said I didn't try to relocate abroad. However things never fell in place. I never got an opportunity and ultimately made peace with the fact that India is my home. The maturity that came with age helped along.

As an upper middle class person life is comfortable in India, if a little frustrating. Patience, which is a virtue in any land, is specially helpful in India, specially if you are upper middle class. I advocate patience because the feeling that your upper middle class money is not buying you a smooth sexy road, garbage free environment, freedom from honking, obstruction from VIP movement can be a bummer.

I will soon be turning 44 and now have no wish to live anywhere else. India feels like 'my home'. The people feel like 'my people' and there is the added satisfaction that I have the right to crib about the situation here because I am living here.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do without the frequent trips to the Udupi darshini or Kerala mess next door, drives to the countryside that remind me of folk tales that I read as a child in Amar Chitra Katha, Chandamama and Tinkle. Or the rehabilitating trips to Goa, Western Ghats, Nilgiris, to the various temple towns, the ghats of Varanasi and Haridwar. I am someone who is very tied to his cultural identity and the ability to answer those calls whenever I want to is something I cherish.

[GreasyCarb55]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Finally someone had to state the obvious in an auto enthusiasts forum! Thanks

A salaried person can either watch their CM been driven in a LR Defender while they wait for 30 minutes on the road which was blocked for the CM to whiz past with a cavalcade of 10 cars or give up something in return for the opportunity to own that LR Defender abroad and enjoy it. Tread your own path.

I'm happy that someone said this.

I agree with GTO and the others when they say that India is good but I personally feel like it's better for me to move abroad.

Most of my interests (be it professional or personal) are better met internationally, I've had a white or yellow Lexus LFA as my wallpaper since I first saw it in 2014, only time I had something else other than the LFA as my computer wallpaper was for a 3 month period in 2021 where my computer screen had the wallpaper of the French band Gojira.

I love travelling in India, there are maybe 3 countries in the world that even come close to India as a travel destination and I might even come back to India to retire. But I feel like I would prefer to live abroad.

I also don't want to have kids, ever. This makes it easy for me to move back to India at a later date if I choose to and experience abroad should help in getting a decent job in India if you're in your late 30's or early 40's.

If a car costs $100,000 in the US, I'm ready to pay $120,000 in India but what I'm not ready to do is spend 83 lakh (approximately $108,000) on an M340i while I could be buying a full fat BMW M5 for the same money in the US.

Will I change my views as I grow older? Maybe or maybe not but everyone has their own reasons to move or stay put.

[ACM]

So both my siblings, both significantly elder, are settled in USA and are US citizens since say 30 odd years.

I decided to stay in India. Couldn't do without the taste of Alphonso Mangoes that are not available in US.

Many (read most); of my engineering college classmates are settled in the US, the same is true for MBA classmates.

But there is an increasing percentage that.

1) Came back to take care of ageing parents.

2) Visit repeatedly to take care of ageing parents but are unable to fully commit to India.

3) Majority have female spouse who is unwilling to return to a joint household (or relative close distances) back in India vs the nuclear family in US.

4) Some thought of coming back too late, kids just won't allow it. You need to be jobless to comeback then.

5) Some took their parents to the US permanently.

6) Some take their parents on rotation.

7) If anything the smartest and dumbest minds both stayed back or came back. The lot moving abroad was not the cream by any stretch of imagination during my generation.

8) Like staying in US is mostly comprised of mortgaging ones house, today's prices demand the same for those staying out here in jobs.

9) Opportunities are equal in both places but different in nature. One can always argue that a specific subsector is better in one place but it is not essential that one take that subsector.

10) There are many advantages to life in India and equal number of disadvantages, it's about what one chooses.

11) In India one is a second class Citizen to politicians and VIPs. In US one is second class to original White Americans irrespective of being an American Citizen.

Nothing is easy in anyplace. Both have dumb and corrupt politicians, but the Govt. administration in India is ultimate in corruption and totally ineffective.

It's never a single persons decision, the family dynamics decide. Spouse, children, parents all pull in different directions.

[Alfresco]

If you are a professional (not a businessman/entrepreneur) then you shall go and stay wherever your work takes you.
Keep an open mind and go and live in a place wherever it is in the World.
It has all become seamless nowadays and so it doesn't matter where you are.
Make a decision based on your age, job description, family responsibilities and interest.
It's your life and totally your decision.
It is very similar to people who think of retiring early and going to live in the mountains. What will you do once the novelty factor has worn off?

Remember, the people in the armed forces go and stay wherever their work takes them, whether peace or forward posting.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by ACM

In US one is second class to original White Americans irrespective of being an American Citizen.

The original Americans are Indians

Jokes apart, many Indians end up living like second or third-class citizens because of the uncertainty of the GC process. They don't invest in good cars or even furniture because in the back of their mind they always fear losing their visa and returning on short notice. Even worse is the condition of people who are stuck in low-paying jobs with bad bosses. Have personally experienced many Indian colleagues getting exploited because they are not in a position to say No and end up doing the dumb/useless work that we in India have happily rejected. Oftentimes, the exploiter is also an Indian or Asian, not a white.

[V.Narayan]

Taking this lovely thread a bit of topic. We Indians often complain of being held up in the proverbial traffic for half an hour for some lordly Chief Minister to pass by. I've been driving around India since c.1978/1979 before most BHPians were born and despite living in Delhi NCR I must have waited maybe 15 times in 30 years. I kid you not. And Delhi has several times the opportunity than other big cities with the President, Vice President, PM, Cabinet Ministers, visiting heads of State, Delhi's own CM etc. Infact in the last 10 odd years or so it has declined even further and the cops have at least got sensible about blocking the route in stages.

Yes petty politicians with their cavalcade of Fortuners bullying you on the road are a nuisance no doubt and our feudal mentality is alive and well. I am not questioning any members' own experience. Just sharing mine living as I do in the politicians paradise. Other capital cities simply cannot be worse than Delhi. Just want to separate fact from emotion.

And at least in Delhi the hold up is never for 30 minutes. At best 5 minutes. Not saying that's acceptable just sharing the facts as I have experienced them over a long period of time.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Other capital cities simply cannot be worse than Delhi.

Having spent my childhood in Delhi and staying very close to India Gate, I can tell that Delhi is much better at handling VIP transport compared to other cities, possibly because the cops are more experienced in that matter. I remember traffic being completely stopped only for high-profile movements like the PM, President, and when the Queen was visiting.

On the contrary, I have been held up much more frequently in Bangalore. Here I've seen the cops keeping the signal green for one side for several minutes even for the free passage of Sr. cops. My mom's office was very near to the commissioner's office and this used to be a regular occurrence.

[FiatDiesel]

Migrating to other country is personal choice, however sometimes it leaves my personal conscious baffled. I have lived in Europe for reasonable time and had managed teams consisting of primarily Indians. Most of them young, recently married, emigrating eventually to Europe. I came across one guy(let’s call him A) in 40’s with fairly young children and an old father to look after, keen to emigrate to Europe. His sibling was in US. A had settled life in India with his own house etc. i checked with him, how he plans to take care of his father once he is migrates. 6 months in US, 3 months in EU, rest of 3 months he doesn’t know and still he migrated.
Well who I am to think or judge about it but the thoughts about his father made it painful. Senior citizen, shuttling between continents to whims and fancies of his children.
My only suggestion will be, in case you have responsibilities at home in India, please give them due thought and respect, rest is karma.

[Sandy Damodaran]

Originally Posted by Alfresco

If you are a professional (not a businessman/entrepreneur) then you shall go and stay wherever your work takes you.
Keep an open mind and go and live in a place wherever it is in the World.
It has all become seamless nowadays and so it doesn't matter where you are.
Make a decision based on your age, job description, family responsibilities and interest.
It's your life and totally your decision.
It is very similar to people who think of retiring early and going to live in the mountains. What will you do once the novelty factor has worn off?

Remember, the people in the armed forces go and stay wherever their work takes them, whether peace or forward posting.

Bingo! This kind of reflects my attitude. I have a pretty transactional relationship with everything except family and friends.
As of now, I really prefer staying here and hence Iam here. If at a later point in time a different country suits my requirement, I'd go there in a heartbeat.

I'd say just go with what feels right at the moment. Getting emotionally attached to a country isn't something I'd recommend to anyone. For any country.

[airguitar]

Have you ever been made to feel that you were not an original citizen of that country or that it wasn't your country even after making it your home ? Will you always have a nagging feeling that it isn't your country and that you are a guest 'anyway' ? This is one of the biggest fears I have from emigrating to another country ( though my love for India is a bigger factor than anything, I dont' mind living for a few years and being back and strictly being back at that )

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by akhil994

P.S As a car enthusiast, the fact is undeniable that buying that car of your dreams is so much easier in the west as compared to India.

Agree to this, buying a car is lot more easier elsewhere. But then there is a problem, dream gets bigger too! As an example if Mustang is a dream car in India, In US i would dream something higher. While owning a Mercedes C class is a distant dream in India, you can easily buy one in US, but would not be a dream car after settling down and getting to know about cars in US. Also felt buying a dream car in a place where you have your near and dear ones is far more fulfilling than buying one in a remote land where you have smaller circle.

[nandrive]

After losing everything to land reforms my grandfather built his life from scratch often having only one or two meals a day for many years. I guess stories of partition victims may be much worse. Looking at the things happening around history could repeat itself, I hope it doesn't. Even if it repeats, I don't want to be as helpless as my grandfather. Don't get me wrong I am very patriotic but having a backup plan if I could is not a crime. In my case I still believe I would return after few years but will definitely keep the option to go back if situation demands.

When I left the job in India my organization hired for my position, so indirectly I helped a fellow Indian to get a high paying job by vacating mine. If we want to see India as a dominant force, we should spread across the world and contribute positively for the cause.

[akhil994]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Finally someone had to state the obvious in an auto enthusiasts forum! Thanks

A salaried person can either watch their CM been driven in a LR Defender while they wait for 30 minutes on the road which was blocked for the CM to whiz past with a cavalcade of 10 cars or give up something in return for the opportunity to own that LR Defender abroad and enjoy it. Tread your own path.

That is what we are, aren't we? A bunch of auto enthusiasts and of course that would factor in our decisions as well. I am already eyeing at leasing a CLA here, which I wouldn't be able to do back in India.

Originally Posted by GreasyCarb55

I'm happy that someone said this.

If a car costs $100,000 in the US, I'm ready to pay $120,000 in India but what I'm not ready to do is spend 83 lakh (approximately $108,000) on an M340i while I could be buying a full fat BMW M5 for the same money in the US.

Will I change my views as I grow older? Maybe or maybe not but everyone has their own reasons to move or stay put.

That is so true. The difference cost and ease of purchase of getting that M340i in India vs in the west, is so huge, that it definitely plays on your mind

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Agree to this, buying a car is lot more easier elsewhere. But then there is a problem, dream gets bigger too! As an example if Mustang is a dream car in India, In US i would dream something higher. While owning a Mercedes C class is a distant dream in India, you can easily buy one in US, but would not be a dream car after settling down and getting to know about cars in US. Also felt buying a dream car in a place where you have your near and dear ones is far more fulfilling than buying one in a remote land where you have smaller circle.

A slight disagreement here. Buying a mustang is only a dream because of the sticker price in India. Is the car worth 90 lakh on road ? No way in hell!

My dream cars have always been the AMGs, maybe even the Porsche 911. Where am I better placed to buy those cars, considering a normal salaried individual? Not in India for sure.

The thing is, from my perspective, I see myself as someone who is starting from scratch and building up equity for myself and family from scratch. House affordability is such a big issue in India now in the metro cities. So I ask myself this (and again all of these are short term questions, based on my current situation) :

Where can I buy a house/real estate and establish equity faster and easier - Not in India

Where can I actually build a base, establish wealth and grow my net worth quicker - Not in India

Where can I also fulfil my passion of driving nice cars ? - Not in India

Where can I have clean air and water ? - Definitely not in India (considering Delhi as the parameter)

The last question has been so pertinent, that my father had been pushing me to move even before I thought about it, only because he saw me suffer every year for 3-4 months with severe cough and breathing issues.


All of this does not mean that I am deriding my country! Heck I am proudly Indian, but personal circumstances sometimes do not leave you much of a choice and you have to take the hard decisions. In my case it was driven by my health, for someone else, it might be completely different. But yes you are right, those hard choices do come with consequences, but then isn't that the case with everything in life?

Originally Posted by nandrive

When I left the job in India my organization hired for my position, so indirectly I helped a fellow Indian to get a high paying job by vacating mine. If we want to see India as a dominant force, we should spread across the world and contribute positively for the cause.

That is quite a unique perspective!