[Theyota]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you have faced in your land deeds, police dealings etc. My experiences by and large have been different. I believe in a when in Rome do as the Romans do. When in India use middle men, get your work done and move on. I at least am not here to reform a system. When in France always have a French white skin lawyer with you in all business matters - that is the way they work. When in USA be conscious the other guy might be carrying a gun in his coat inner pocket.

What you are essentially saying is that you accept the fact that our country is corrupt and you use middlemen in order to get your stuff done thereby further contributing to the corruption in the system. How can this be an argument against the thought process of the OP you are addressing?

For getting stuff done in India, yes, I too use middlemen. But that is not something I am proud of and I would never boast about it.

[Surya1]

We can't blame anyone else I guess. We as the people make the country, if everyone is honest on their part all will be like in Utopia. At least >90% people because cent percent is not possible anywhere in this world.

[gvarma9989]

Originally Posted by MercFan

Life in US as a dependent will be frustrating, in each and every aspect we will be remembered that we are D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-T-S, expect for volunteering, H4 visa holders are not allowed to do/earn anything.

SF is a beautiful place, never seen such a city which is built into nature.
You feel as if you are living in a huge amphitheater.

If you love outdoors and road trips, there are plenty of places/activities to keep you busy for years ahead.

Immigration,
Short term growth will be disappointing as a dependent.
Long term, you will prosper with plenty of opportunities.

Like every other city, there are negative aspects as well.

If you have any queries related to SF, you can reach out to me.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by shashankjain16

No country is perfect, we as citizens need to make it better. And I personally would be willing more to contribute to making my country better rather than taking a shortcut and moving out.

I appreciate how you articulated your post, hence calling it out.
I like how you have not pretended problems don't exist, but rather focussed on what you can do to improve it.

[UPS_Guru]

Those who leave need a reason to leave and those who stay need a reason to stay The problem is not the place, but the perspective. The real problem is looking outward rather than inward. Unless you know yourself, your decisions will be flawed.

[kiku007]

Typical responses when someone asks if they should upgrade from their M800 to a Mercedes?

• What does the Mercedes offer more than the M800?
• What are your requirements?
• Are you able to afford the initial cost and ongoing maintenance costs?
• Can you stomach the depreciation losses?
• These are the things that the Mercedes can do better but be aware of things that the M800 can do better than the Mercedes. For example, the M800 does very well at the petrol station, service centre and a crowded single lane street.

However, in this thread.

• Why isn't the M800 enough for you? It was good for your grandfather, father and even for you till now.
• Have you thought about the friendly neighborhood service centre guy's livelihood? What will he do if you move away from the M800. He can't service the Mercedes (at least as yet.).
• Why do you want to put yourself into so much trouble to work more/make more money to upgrade?
• Why not just rent the Mercedes once in a while rather than buying it?

It is a thread about emigration and it is obvious that people will discuss the pros and cons. Relax and don't take things too personally.

P.S: I am aware that people will be sharpening their tools for my use of the M800 and Mercedes comparison. Refer to any livability, air quality, GDP index and it will be obvious. One can imagine their M800 to be like a Mercedes and treat it that way but it wouldn't make it one until Maruti actually builds a car that's as good as a Mercedes. The South Koreans and Chinese have done it.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Typical responses when someone asks if they should upgrade from their M800 to a Mercedes?

A great post @kiku007 and certainly causes one to stop and think. I'd only add that what is an M800 or what is a Mercedes will vary from person to person. What is a Mercedes - for one migrating to Canada, for another tending to his family business in Coimbatore, for another shifting to Dubai, earning some money but still being next door to home; for another joining the civil services with the power that it brings and so on. As each of us were born into very different circumstances and basket of family resources, have very different aptitudes & abilities, and different priorities of what is our Mercedes it follows that each of us have a different definition of the Mercedes. Clearly you thought through what was your Mercedes and acted on it. Good for you.

There is also the behaviour amongst us, including me, that whatever situation we are in or career/monetary destination we have reached we convince ourselves that indeed it is a Mercedes. The older we get (me, me, me) they more we convince ourselves that wherever we have reached that is the Mercedes.

PS: next time please use Lexus in your analogies

[Surya1]

I remember when I was in college my flat owner used to tell no country is better than yours, no matter how many problems are there. It will always be your home. In a foriegn land you always are and will be an alien, a man of color no matter if you speak their language or have acquired a place in there. To add he had served in Merchant navy all his life, travelled to most parts of the world. I can't agree more with him.

[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

PS: next time please use Lexus in your analogies

Lexus is taking it too far. I'd say a Dzire is a better comparison.

Originally Posted by Surya1

I remember when I was in college my flat owner used to tell no country is better than yours, no matter how many problems are there. It will always be your home. In a foriegn land you always are and will be an alien, a man of color no matter if you speak their language or have acquired a place in there. To add he had served in Merchant navy all his life, travelled to most parts of the world. I can't agree more with him.

We are taught to be patriotic, and something that we learned as children would stay with us for a long time. Like religion. It took a couple of decades before I mustered courage to leave my religion. Yet it is not easy to shake off what remains of it inside me.

Same with nationality. Am not particularly proud of my culture - am pretty neutral about it, but there is that certain Indianness inside me which I cannot shake off. However hard I tried, when I was overseas I was not able to adjust to the western way of life. Even simple things like responding to a "How's it going" from a stranger was difficult for me. It felt so artificial. Eventually I realized that I'd be living like an Indian in the USA, in some Indian ghetto, having only Indian friends.

[Surya1]

You are right, I am currently in Poland. Even though I have Polish friends but there still is some difference within that sets me more closely to fellow Indians.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Even simple things like responding to a "How's it going" from a stranger was difficult for me. It felt so artificial.

The other side of that coin. Me adjusting to India...

"Hello, How are you?"

"Hello Thad. I'm fine."

I knew very well that they had numerous health problems and were not fine, but none of this came out until I asked...

"How is your health?"

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by kiku007

I am aware that people will be sharpening their tools for my use of the M800 and Mercedes comparison.

I found your post very offensive at several levels. Enjoy your Mercedes man, best of luck.

To each his own. I love my country for whatever it is.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

To each his own. I love my country for whatever it is.

Fully agree with you.

Many of us think of our country as something intangible. Like one thinks about a parent. We don't pick our parents, yet we love them despite all their imperfection. I didn't come back to India after nearly a decade in USA because of (i) Lack of choice (ii) Wanted to be poorer (ii) India is superior (iii) India is inferior. Comparing motherland to a car is a very poor analogy.

I came back because I belong here most, I could be around my parents during their golden years. I was present when my dad passed away. As I type this, my mom (age 86) is reading her favorite magazine in the next room. Since my return, I attend most family functions, births, weddings, cremations, and anything in between. All my nieces and nephews know me personally and I have seen them grow. I am not some name they hear about in family circles. I regularly drive through places I grew up around, that feeling is way better than getting a dopamine hit from social media like.

Life is lot harder in India, compared to USA, but I find it lot more fulfilling.

[nitkel]

I believe in all this sentimental to and fro, we are deviating from the main purpose of this thread!

Let's focus more on helping people plan their emigration strategies, or understand the pros and cons of different countries in a more objective way.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by nitkel

I believe in all this sentimental to and fro, we are deviating from the main purpose of this thread!

Let's focus more on helping people plan their emigration strategies, or understand the pros and cons of different countries in a more objective way.

+1! (From someone who has no interest or knowledge about emigrating, but certainly would like to learn more just out of curiosity.)

All threads will have some posts questioning the existence or rationale of the basic premise itself- but never seen it to this extent on any other thread! I suppose that is understandable given the emotions around anything to do with the concept of nationhood. But frankly, most of the posts against seem cathartic, rather than factual points against.

I believe our parents' generation might have gone through something similar when it came to moving between states in our country. And most of the similar arguments would have been made then. But I see that today the majority don't see it as a big deal if someone chooses to make a life in another state. (And personally I'm extremely happy my parents moved from their state of birth and I grew up in Bangalore!) Perhaps the time has come when moving across countries is an objective decision with factual pros and cons as opposed to emotional?