[snaronikar]

Originally Posted by diabloo

With his 'usual kind' Sehwag scored 4760 runs at an average of 53.48 with 2 triple centuries. He scored most of these runs as an opener when the 'experienced' chickened out at the prospect of opening the innings. To call his 2 triple tons as fluke is an insult to the exclusive club of Bradman & Lara, the only two other to score 2 triple 100s in their career. And Sehwag is yet to cross the age 30. What can you say about the 'experienced' who use the bat more as walking stick rather than to score some runs?

The pot should look at its color before calling the kettle black .

What do you call the failures in this test for Sehwag? Before making these comments, just look at the history of his and make a comment. Don't do it for the heck of doing it. Also, these were the same players who won test matches in WI/SA/Australia/England for the first time. What more do you ask for? Just losing in one game, the world will not come to an end.

And Sehwag is a senior player not by age, by experience.

[rks]

Indians lose as expected. As the SA commentators Peter Kirsten and Kepler Wessels pointed out, the Indian batsmen simplly did not have the technique to cope with the SA pace attack on this pitch, whicn offered some help. But it was still a good batting pitch and the Aussies, for instance, would have slaughtered this SA attack.

In the words of one of the SA commentators (I think Kepler) "Pathan was the only Indian batsman who showed some techinique in the first innings". To be fair to Dravid, he got an unplayable delivery in the first innings. But in the second innings, Dravid failed to deal with the pace and bounce of Morkel. Ganguly was unlucky to be given out and did very well. Dhoni was lucky to be let off twice and got to a fighting 50.

Pathan again showed impressive technique in the second innings and had plenty of time to deal with the pacemen. I sincerely hope he is not either dropped or shunted to the top order. It is time we showed faith in our younger players and Pathan amply justified that faith in recent Test matches. Jaffer should be dropped and Tendulkar brought in, if fit. If not, I say bring in Rohit Sharma or Kaif or Yuvraj in place of Jaffer. Dravid should be told to open. Regarding the bowling, RP Singh is still struggling and maybe Ishant Sharma should be recalled if fit.

[diabloo]

Only Sachin used to get the greatest deliveries & the most unplayable bowling. Now Dravid too

As if the bowlers forgot to bowls those deliveries those to other batsmen

FYI, in the 1st innings, Dravid's eye failed him. He played all over the delivery, which was pitched middle-off stump & hitting off stump.
Don't tell me nobody can play those. If so bowlers would have bowled that delivery all day long.

Another day, he could have easily played it. On that day he missed it.

Originally Posted by rks

To be fair to Dravid, he got an unplayable delivery in the first innings.

[akroy]

Originally Posted by diabloo

Only Sachin used to get the greatest deliveries & the most unplayable bowling. Now Dravid too

As if the bowlers forgot to bowls those deliveries those to other batsmen

FYI, in the 1st innings, Dravid's eye failed him. He played all over the delivery, which was pitched middle-off stump & hitting off stump.
Don't tell me nobody can play those. If so bowlers would have bowled that delivery all day long.

Another day, he could have easily played it. On that day he missed it.

Diabloo, Have you ever bowl those deliveries? My dear friend, it is not easy to bowl them... It takes years years of practice to get there, people like Akram, McGrath, Hadlee etc are result of those dedicated hard work. Still it is not easy to bowl them everytime. It requires assistance from the pitch for slight deviation and also late swing to make it lethal. Sometimes when the deviation from pitch is more then also batsman will play and miss but cannot edge it. It is the small deviation which beats the bat. Bowlers practice that art even when there is little assistance from pitch using there grip and how ball leaves the hand. Hence not everyone can become a Wasim, Waqar, Hadlee, Kapil...

BTW, I have played cricket till school level and tell you it is not so easy negotiating those deliveries which just deviate a little after pitching and at that pace and bounce.

tell you what, Dravid indeed got an unplayable delivery. 9 times out of 10, the best batsman will be out either bowled or edge it back
(I remember some similar deliveries like Ishant to Ponting in last series, McGrath bowleds Lara in 2003WC, Prabhakar bowled Salim Malik in Faislabad ODI-1989, Akram to Dravid in 99-Chennai test).

Sir, It is very easy for us to comment. Try it out sometime, you will start appreciating Dravid's contribution to cricket.

Abhi

[normally_crazy]

ak - I guess only Sehwag has the ability to negotiate that kind of bowling.

[snaronikar]

@Diabloo: Why are you so anti-Dravid at all the time? I'am pondering on this point from a long time. Could you care to explain.

[rks]

Originally Posted by diabloo

FYI, in the 1st innings, Dravid's eye failed him. He played all over the delivery, which was pitched middle-off stump & hitting off stump.

As akroy pointed out, those deliveries are very difficult to bowl at that kind of pace. If the ball pitched middle-and-off, it would likely have gone on towards middle and leg if it didn't deviate and Dravid would have been preparing to work it towards the on side. The deviation towards offstump at that pace would make that ball unplayable, unless the batsman somehow guessed that it would move (which likely even the bowler could not have guessed). If a spinner bowls such a delivery, it is easy for the batsman to guess the spin from the bowler's action and has time to make the adjustment even after the ball pitched.

In my opinion, there is no doubt that Dravid has slowed down a bit. Nevertheless, I think he should be asked to open because Jaffer is too vulnerable on these kinds of pitches. Jaffer will probably do well on dead pitches (e.g. Kanpur could be one such pitch) but in the long run, Jaffer will be a liability to the team. Pushing Pathan to open would be criminal after what have already seen so far. Pathan is a valuable lower-order batsman and can contribute with the ball when conditions help swing bowling. On this pitch, it was more like movement off the seam than in the air, and the faster and more accomplished SA pacemen were way ahead of the Indians, as were their batsmen.

[MaserQ]

The Indians were caught by surprise - they misread the pitch and the tactics employed by SA. They made it clear that they would pepper the Indians with short stuff and as such, our batsmen were caught on the back foot every time a swinging full length delivery was bowled at them.

Secondly, the SA batsmen play spin a lot better these days and I dont think we had a plan for each batsman, ie, homework not done correctly. RP and Sree looked wayward as well. I would drop RP, he looked clueless in the 2 tests he has played.

The next test is crucial as we need to go all out for a win and that means playing 5 bowlers. The composition on the team depends on the pitch as picking Pathan as 3rd seamer on a dead track is meaningless. I would pick Jaffer again. You don't discard people based on failures in 1 single test. But yes, opening with Dravid is something to be looked into, if only for that final test as it gives us the option to play Yuvraj AND the fifth bowler.

[rsjaurr]

How many times NZ/SA/Eng etc have given us spin friendly pitches to play on and beat the *hit out of their own team within 3 days?
Ist SA team was given dead pitch in 1st match to have some batting practice against our spin bowlers and then in 2nd match green pitch was provided where they can make hay even when sun doesn't shine!

Then India went with 5 bowlers including 3 fast bowlers and still chose to bat 1st on a pitch where they were mentally not ready even though they have won matches on similar kind of pitches.Infact they should have strengthen their batting due to Sachin's absence.

In the end it was lack of commitment and their mind focussed somewhere else which led to batting failures,in both innings.India should have scored much more in 2nd innings than they actually scored.

This is nothing new and quite often India has given these types of performance just after some splendid ones.Thats why team has not figured in top 3 quite often in rankings.

Another aspect is selection which we all know.In spite of getting out within 20overs in 1st innings and within a day in 2nd innings,no batsman has been punished.Agree bowlers were also guilty by letting SA score close to 500 but certainly Jaffer and/or Dhoni should have been made to sit out.There has to be hard punishment for these kind of performances to avoid future repetitions.

On the other hand SA planned it very well.They made sure that by the time they play against quality spinners at their own den they had some good practice under similar conditons by haveing a series against Bangladesh.

[snaronikar]

SA are playing in India and Indians should prepare the pitches suitalble for our bowlers. In other countries, the curators will be asked to prepare the pitches suitable for their home team. In India they have never done this before and will not do it in future also. I feel the BCCI/Selectors and curator has to be blamed as they had not prepared the pitch which supports our bowlers.

Hope they have done so in Kanpur which supports our kind of batsmen and bowlers.

[MaserQ]

There was an article on cricinfo about Gavaskar telling off the Indian players who chose to skip the optional net sessions between the 1st and 2nd tests to attend/promote...wait for this...their IPL teams!

I am sorry but if an Indian player choses his club to his national duty, then there is something really wrong here. I know it is the first season of the IPL and the owners are desperate to get a good start and that involves heavy promotional activity, BUT not at the expense of players missing out on national commitments.

I would have forgiven the Indian team for the odd loss to someone like South Africa who seem to have done their homework on all Indian counterparts. But this is inexcusable! Hell, no one talks about the ongoing series any more.

Even the media are more interested in airing non-stop footage/interviews/launches/promotional activity/commercials of these teams. And cricketers who are supposed to provide the entertainment have given way to their bollywood counterparts dancing away merrily to their banks.

Those 3 days in between tests were a missed opportunity for the team to sit down with their coach to get their strategies right. But hey, if the BCCI says its ok to campaign for the IPL...who are the players to say no?!

Cricinfo - Gavaskar slams India's players for IPL distractions

[diabloo]

India lost 2nd test by an inning & 90 runs. Nobody notes down whether how deliveries were played or remaining. Or how much time was spent and how much was remaining. So however long Dravid stays at the wicket, its inconsequential if he doesn't score runs.

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

And Dravid played more deliveries than Sehwag in both innings - so how can you say - shots played by a batsman who likes to hang in there ?

Comment on 1st Test:

Originally Posted by diabloo

"Take away Sehwag's special innings and India have been outmatched as a team against South Africa."

Sehwag didn't click in 2nd test and India were in doldrums. Lets see what Sehwag does in this test.

[diabloo]

If there are only 2 fielders and there is a wide gap between them, Dravid always hits the ball directly to one of those fielders. Even after scoring 10000 runs in ODIs & another 10000 runs in Tests, he hasn't worked on this his in(dis)ability. Thats why I can't trust him to deliver the goods.

Originally Posted by snaronikar

@Diabloo: Why are you so anti-Dravid at all the time? I'am pondering on this point from a long time. Could you care to explain.

[rsjaurr]

Originally Posted by diabloo

If there are only 2 fielders and there is a wide gap between them, Dravid always hits the ball directly to one of those fielders. Even after scoring 10000 runs in ODIs & another 10000 runs in Tests, he hasn't worked on this his in(dis)ability. Thats why I can't trust him to deliver the goods.

Your statement is self-contradictory.Now tell me,how come he has scored these runs by hitting straight to these fielders.

BTW India has again got it wrong in this match.They should have gone with 3 spinners with only Irfan Pathan being the lone fast bowler especially after Kumble's absence.That would have strengthen the batting also.

[diabloo]

Sorry I didn't mention the time taken or the deliveries faced . Only thing commendable is that he has managed to keep himself fit and since India play large numbers matches, he gets time & deliveries to score those runs. Another thing commendable about him is he re-discovers his wicket-keeping skills when his scoring rate goes down .

Originally Posted by rsjaurr

Your statement is self-contradictory.Now tell me,how come he has scored these runs by hitting straight to these fielders.

Does it matter who else plays if Sehwag clicks?

BTW India has again got it wrong in this match.They should have gone with 3 spinners with only Irfan Pathan being the lone fast bowler especially after Kumble's absence.That would have strengthen the batting also.