[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ZinFluent

Could this be due the bent alloys or could this be a suspension or axle issue? What would be the best way to diagnose the rear end of the car completely?

You should check all 4 alloy wheels for run out. Ideally damaged wheels should be replaced not repaired by attempting to hammer them back into shape. Depending on the damage incurred that kind of treatment can possibly throw them out of alignment and they may no longer run true causing vibrations and even air leaks if the wheel's lip/edge on which the tyre bead is seated does not make good contact. Repaired alloy wheels are an iffy proposition, YMMV of course. Get the wheel bearings checked too.

[ZinFluent]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Are you getting the rear wheel alignment checked? Is there any uneven tyre wear of the rear tyres?

Yes, in the last 3 months, the alignment and balancing has been checked multiple times with the most recent one being 10 days back. The last check was quite a thorough one and the technician assured that there is nothing wrong with the alignment of all 4 wheels.

He pointed out one of the two repaired bent alloys as the culprit. He then repaired one of those two alloys and mentioned the bend in the other one is very minor and does not need a repair. After repair of 1 alloy, fitted it back reducing the tyre pressure in all 4 tyres to 29 psi while earlier I used to maintain 32 psi. There was a noticeable difference after this however assuming the tyre pressure to be quite low, I raised it to 32 psi for the front 2 tyres and 30 psi for rear tyres. This is where the issue resurfaced again.

As for the uneven tyre wear, I have changed tyres only about 400 kms back to hard to notice any uneven wear as of now.

Originally Posted by R2D2

You should check all 4 alloy wheels for run out. Ideally damaged wheels should be replaced not repaired by attempting to hammer them back into shape. Depending on the damage incurred that kind of treatment can possibly throw them out of alignment and they may no longer run true causing vibrations and even air leaks if the wheel's lip/edge on which the tyre bead is seated does not make good contact. Repaired alloy wheels are an iffy proposition, YMMV of course. Get the wheel bearings checked too.

Can you suggest the best way to get alloys checked as the wheel balancing machine always shows OK after addition of little weights here and there

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ZinFluent

Can you suggest the best way to get alloys checked as the wheel balancing machine always shows OK after addition of little weights here and there

Bro, wheel balancing and truing are two different things. Balancing is a dynamic adjustment with the tyre mounted and done on a machine which spins the wheel at speed to emulate running. Truing is comparatively static to remove a what is called a run out. Do you remember bicycle repairwalas tightening spokes to remove wheel wobbles? That is truing.

I think it's best to have the wheels checked at a good tyre shop or even a Honda dealer. Be careful with the Honda dealer he may try and rip you off. In case he suggests a replacements it may be more cost effective for you to buy after market wheels of the same dimensions including diameter (15" for the City IIRC), width (for e.g. 6 or 6.5"), offset, lip/bead profile (normally 'J') and PCD. Do make sure that you get wheels of the exact dimensions as the factory ones. The good thing is you get to use more attractive designs and there are some really nice wheels out there. Do NOT buy cheap Chinese rims/wheels.

PS Good brands are - Lenso, Momo, Enkei among many others depending on your budget.

[self_driven]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Any update?

Not yet. As the car is used daily, I will be taking it to the ASS next week when I have some free time. will surely post an update here.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by ZinFluent

Yes, in the last 3 months, the alignment and balancing has been checked multiple times with the most recent one being 10 days back.
...
There was a noticeable difference after this however assuming the tyre pressure to be quite low, I raised it to 32 psi for the front 2 tyres and 30 psi for rear tyres. This is where the issue resurfaced again.

As for the uneven tyre wear, I have changed tyres only about 400 kms back to hard to notice any uneven wear as of now.

Originally Posted by R2D2

Bro, wheel balancing and truing are two different things.

Apart from checking the repaired wheels for runout as R2D2 rightly suggested, have the wheel bearings inspected. Also, get the bushes of the rear suspension arms checked. And what are the camber values of the rear wheels?

[ZinFluent]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Bro, wheel balancing and truing are two different things. Balancing is a dynamic adjustment with the tyre mounted and done on a machine which spins the wheel at speed to emulate running. Truing is comparatively static to remove a what is called a run out. Do you remember bicycle repairwalas tightening spokes to remove wheel wobbles? That is truing.

I think it's best to have the wheels checked at a good tyre shop or even a Honda dealer. Be careful with the Honda dealer he may try and rip you off. In case he suggests a replacements it may be more cost effective for you to buy after market wheels of the same dimensions including diameter (15" for the City IIRC), width (for e.g. 6 or 6.5"), offset, lip/bead profile (normally 'J') and PCD. Do make sure that you get wheels of the exact dimensions as the factory ones. The good thing is you get to use more attractive designs and there are some really nice wheels out there. Do NOT buy cheap Chinese rims/wheels.

PS Good brands are - Lenso, Momo, Enkei among many others depending on your budget.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Apart from checking the repaired wheels for runout as R2D2 rightly suggested, have the wheel bearings inspected. Also, get the bushes of the rear suspension arms checked. And what are the camber values of the rear wheels?

Thanks a lot for your inputs I will get the wheels and bushes of rear suspension checked this weekend. The wheel bearings were checked at Honda service center recently upon my insistence however they are clear as per their claim.



As for the camber values, does this image help determine anything wrong?

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ZinFluent

Thanks a lot for your inputs I will get the wheels and bushes of rear suspension checked this weekend. The wheel bearings were checked at Honda service center recently upon my insistence however they are clear as per their claim.

If the bearings, assumed to be all 4 wheels, check out OK you need to check the tyres as well. You said the wheels were hammered err coaxed back into shape. Tyre damage?

As for the camber values, does this image help determine anything wrong?

Very clearly it is not alignment issue. All seems ok.

Remember, castor and camber cannot be adjusted in many cars especially at the rear wheels. So don't worry. Actually if any non-adjustable values are off normal then it may point to possible chassis or suspension component damage.

Your car's suspension and wheels have obviously suffered some impact evidenced by the wheel damage. Please get all suspension components and tyres checked. This is a simple process of elimination.

[ZinFluent]

Originally Posted by R2D2

If the bearings, assumed to be all 4 wheels, check out OK you need to check the tyres as well. You said the wheels were hammered err coaxed back into shape. Tyre damage?



Very clearly it is not alignment issue. All seems ok.

Remember, castor and camber cannot be adjusted in many cars especially at the rear wheels. So don't worry. Actually if any non-adjustable values are off normal then it may point to possible chassis or suspension component damage.

Your car's suspension and wheels have obviously suffered some impact evidenced by the wheel damage. Please get all suspension components and tyres checked. This is a simple process of elimination.

If there is indeed a damage to any suspension components, will it be visible to the naked eye or will it possibly require opening up the entire rear setup? The reason I ask is the Honda service center here is always very busy and getting them to do a thorough check up of anything is a tough ask due to sheer numbers of cars they service on a daily basis.

Unfortunately I do not know of a reliable FNG around who I can take a chance upon for this work.

I am thinking to mount one of the rear tyres on the spare steel wheel and do a trial run for few days. That will help determine if the repaired wheel is indeed the culprit.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ZinFluent

If there is indeed a damage to any suspension components, will it be visible to the naked eye or will it possibly require opening up the entire rear setup? The reason I ask is the Honda service center here is always very busy and getting them to do a thorough check up of anything is a tough ask due to sheer numbers of cars they service on a daily basis.

If the damage is extensive it may be visible but most are not unless the components are dismantled and examined/tested by an experienced technician.

Unfortunately I do not know of a reliable FNG around who I can take a chance upon for this work.

Try another Honda dealer in your city. For FNGs you may want to consult other car owners. A significant number of Indian car owners have their cars attended to by FNGs.

I am thinking to mount one of the rear tyres on the spare steel wheel and do a trial run for few days. That will help determine if the repaired wheel is indeed the culprit.

Thing is you don't know which side of the car has the problem i.e. rear right or rear left or both. You can have the tyre mounted on a steel rim, balanced and by mounting the wheel on both sides of the car sequentially check for unusual behaviour.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by ZinFluent

As for the camber values, does this image help determine anything wrong?

Nope. This is for the front axle. The rear axle values hav not been checked/photographed.

Originally Posted by R2D2

Very clearly it is not alignment issue. All seems ok.

Remember, castor and camber cannot be adjusted in many cars especially at the rear wheels. So don't worry. Actually if any non-adjustable values are off normal then it may point to possible chassis or suspension component damage.

Rear axle alignment issues (especially camber and tracking) come up with worn out bushes, especially in case of independent rear suspensions. Chronic issue with the Indica & Indica V2. Had noticed rear wheel alignment issues with my Accent Viva at one time too. Back then 4-wheel aligners were not common, so the "thread" method and fixing the front aligner units on the rear wheels were the usual workarounds.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Back then 4-wheel aligners were not common, so the "thread" method and fixing the front aligner units on the rear wheels were the usual workarounds.

Yes, I've seen both methods in use, the thread method very commonly with older generation cars like the Amby, Standard Herald and Premier Padmini.

I used to wonder about the accuracy but the those cars being simple machines somehow put up with pretty rough adjustments. Ditto for using front alignment units on the rear because the alignment machine would have values only for the front wheel alignment. The mechanic/tech would have to have prior knowledge of the rear values too.

[dailydriver]

Car: Zen Estilo Lxi, 2010

Problem: The steering wheel needs extra turns for even small changes in direction. If a turn required a 5° movement of the steering wheel earlier, the same needs a 10° turn now (for instance).

What changed: This is being noticed in the last 3-4 days after I got the front lower arms and stabilizer bushes changed, followed by wheel balancing, tyre rotation and alignment.

What hasn't changed: The steering mechanism wasn't touched during the service. No change in driving conditions, tyre pressure (checked) etc. The steering hasn't tightened/loosened, nor has the return to centre action.

There just seems to be some disconnect for a while between the steering wheel and the front wheels.

Please help.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

Car: Zen Estilo Lxi, 2010

Problem: The steering wheel needs extra turns for even small changes in direction. If a turn required a 5° movement of the steering wheel earlier, the same needs a 10° turn now (for instance).

What changed: This is being noticed in the last 3-4 days after I got the front lower arms and stabilizer bushes changed, followed by wheel balancing, tyre rotation and alignment.

What hasn't changed: The steering mechanism wasn't touched during the service. No change in driving conditions, tyre pressure (checked) etc. The steering hasn't tightened/loosened, nor has the return to centre action.

There just seems to be some disconnect for a while between the steering wheel and the front wheels.

Please help.

There can be a few reasons
1. Play in the linkages. This is very easy to diagnose. If the wheels take time to start turning then there is a play. Check it by rotating the steering when the car is stationary. Get some body to check the wheel movement while turning the steering wheel . If the wheels turn smoothly then there is no play. If the wheels turn after some time then there is a play.

2. The bushes have not been tightened properly, so that they first compress and then the linkages move.

In both these cases once the wheels start moving, the wheels will move as before.

So go back to where you changed the bushes and get the steering linkages checked.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

The steering wheel needs extra turns for even small changes in direction. If a turn required a 5° movement of the steering wheel earlier, the same needs a 10° turn now (for instance).

It is called steering play - it is normally about 2-5 degrees depending from car to car. But if you feel a 10 degree play something is wrong in either:

a) The quality of parts used during the suspension overhaul.
b) Not all affected components may have been replaced
c) A shoddy job during reassembly

Either way take it back to your FNG to get it checked.

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by Aroy

There can be a few reasons
1. Play in the linkages.

There is indeed some steering play. It takes a moment before the wheels respond to steering movement.

The bushes have not been tightened properly, so that they first compress and then the linkages move

Only stabilizer bar bushes were changed last week. Steering mechanism wasn't touched.

Originally Posted by R2D2

Either way take it back to your FNG to get it checked.

Originally Posted by Aroy

So go back to where you changed the bushes and get the steering linkages checked.

Went to the MASS and came back cursing them.

The mechanic agreed that there was indeed steering play. He wanted to open the steering assembly to check for faults and if necessary, replace it. The SA, on the other hand, felt the steering was smooth and there was no need to worry. His contention was that the torn bushes of the lower arm would have accumulated dust and therefore the steering could have tightened earlier. With the new arms, the movement has smoothened. Obviously, I am not convinced at all.