[overdose14]

Originally Posted by doctorkats

Hello Safariphiles!

Here is a feel of what I have experienced so far:
3.0 v/s 2.2

Looks (exteriors and interiors):
Both look equally handsome,macho and strong.
The 2.2 biege interiors looks brighter than the grey interiors of the 3.0
Biege however does threaten to get dirty sooner than grey.
Personally I prefer the instrument panel of the 3.0,seems more classy especially when illuminated.
The old grill of the 3.0 also I feel was better.But the new one does break the monotony a bit.
The spare wheel cover of the 3.0 is way better looking than the new one on the 2.2 (looks like an M&M candy gem).
The new one however has a more convenient zipper and velcro system rather than a plastic clip on buckle as seen on the 3.0
No changes in aircon vents (but the chilling and air throw is much better on the 2.2).Aircon fan is as noisy.
No changes in the jump seats etc.
Plastic quality and all is unchanged.
From the rear the 2.2's bottom view looks a little odd because of the protrusions designed to protect the differential.
On the road:
I have driven a 3.0 EX 4x4 for nearly 8000km in 3 and a half months and a 2.2 EX 4x2 for 254km in a day and a half (excluding a 10km drive on the 29th of
Sep).
The 2.2 engine is definitely more silent than the very harsh 3.0
In cabin engine NVH is hardly felt.
The first gear shift has been a problem in 2 of 3 vehicles that I have driven.
Gear throw distance on the 2.2 is less pronounced than the 3.0
Clutch as soft as the 3.0 but still inadequate for the engine power.I think they have retained the 280 dia on the Luk clutch/pressure plate assembly.(?Needs
confirmation)
Both the 3.0 and the 2.2 are very good and smooth cruisers.
Without a doubt the 3.0 pulls much better on the highway than the 2.2
No change in high speed overtaking.
Wind shear noise on the 2.2 after 100 kmph is unbearable.I noticed this on all three 2.2's driven.I'm at a loss to figure why.Maybe window beadings?
The power steering on the 2.2 seems smoother and more responsive, though both have Rane power steering systems.This makes the car move a bit at high speeds
at a slight movement of the steering.Feels a little dicey.
At a speed of 150kmph the 2.2 feels shaky and dangerous to drive.The engine however, at that speed is smooth as silk.
Surpisingly the 3.0 feels more torquey than the 2.2
I dont know if these TD vehicles have been deliberately detuned a bit to slow down wear and tear because of abuse
The first and second gear pull on the 3.0 is better than the 2.2
Braking quality is the same on both.(driven both without ABS/EBD)
The last 2.2 I drove had no rattles at all on the tail gate and less noise from the door trims.
The suspension on the 2.2 seems softer and more silent over pot holes and bumps than the 3.0, maybe because these were brand new vehicles.

as I've written earlier after asking more than 10 persons who took test drive and 4 were 3L owners complained about 4th and 5th gear performance all took test drive for at least half and hour. i think gear box ratio have been changed.
and 2.2L now matched innova smoothness and is definitely a very good buy.

Doc i our case vehicle was rock solid even at 150+ (speedo) and i think bhp figures are at crank.

[doctorkats]

2.2 instrument cluster;loud?


plastic (ahem!) quality




tampered odometer or detuned?


new rubber dampeners on the 2.2 to cut out door rattles

no dampeners on the 3.0

new scuff boards



brighter biege cabin
no change in jump seats

after burning serious rubber



p.s: sorry the pics didn't post well at all.either i suck at it or imageshack sucks

[doctorkats]

Originally Posted by aadix

hey doc, which one would u suggest?

mean to say,if u had a option to pick up either the 3.0 or the 2.2, which one would u pick up?

I would go for the 3.0, leave the stereo on to drown out the engine noise and buy the power box and harness Steer is getting tested.
Seriously.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by doctorkats

I would go for the 3.0, leave the stereo on to drown out the engine noise and buy the power box and harness Steer is getting tested.
Seriously.

I dont agree to your point of view.3.0 is too crude and unrefined to me and the boom in the cabin is seriously annoying.3.0 also calls for more gear shifting from the poor gearbox that vibrates and the clutch is not too inviting to play with after moreso if you have other cars in your garage and they are sedans like in my case accent and verna which have light controls.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Those that have driven the 2.2 before have maintained that the engine is a totally different animal altogether. I also dont see how the narrow-band 3.0 can be more fun to drive than a revvy 2.2. IMHO these observations are probably a result of:.

What I've noticed is that cars with huge lag feel really fast when the turbo hits. So, to an agressive driver, it feels fast but is a pain in the city traffic. My Eclipse turbo was just like that.

Likewise, a car with a flat torque curve will actually feel slow because power delivery is linear. No kick in the pants but just a steady surge. anyway, at the end of the day the numbers dont lie. So...out with the numbers please...somebody.

The light steering may be a result of the reduced weight on the front axle due to the alloy engine.

[BUSA]

So...out with the numbers please...somebody.

Safari 3.0 Dicor - 0 - 100 - 19secs
Safari 2.2 Dicor - 0 - 100 - 15secs(claimed by Tata)

4 secs faster, surely 2.2 is the way to go no matter what people say on this forum, i would not want to buy a car with a engine which is being phased out from the car.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I dont agree to your point of view.3.0 is too crude and unrefined to me and the boom in the cabin is seriously annoying.3.0 also calls for more gear shifting from the poor gearbox that vibrates and the clutch is not too inviting to play with after moreso if you have other cars in your garage and they are sedans like in my case accent and verna which have light controls.

1. 3.0 is a bit crude and there is a boom in the cabin @ §1600~1700.

2. Gearbox is anything but poor and doesnt vibrate. It is a pretty good box by most standards, except for the throw which is longish.

3. I normally drive an automatic car, not even a geared sedan with a clutch. I have no issues with the clutch - every vehicle is different and its a bit unrealistic to expect a 3 litre truck to behave like a tiny sedan.

You will appreciate the clutch travel when you have to go off-road and have to control the torque to get out of sticky situations.

However lets go back to the 2.2. Its 3.something seconds faster to the hundred as the 3.0 does a 100 in 18.something.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by doctorkats

new rubber dampeners on the 2.2 to cut out door rattles

no dampeners on the 3.0

Doc

Those rubber dampers are not to cut out door rattles - they WILL however cut down wind noise at higher speeds. I've been looking to do something like this for the wind noise, now its a straight Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V from the 2.2!!!

PS: Wind noise in the 2.2 may be more noticeable because there is less engine noise!

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Doc

Those rubber dampers are not to cut out door rattles - they WILL however cut down wind noise at higher speeds. I've been looking to do something like this for the wind noise, now its a straight Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V from the 2.2!!!

but someone was complaining that there is much more noise above 100 in the 2.2 as compared to the 3.0??

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

And I'm positive that later Dicors were unrestricted.

They werent. The latest Dicor Boy on the forum, Mr. Himanshu Lawyer Goswami should be able to confirm this.

[Rahulk76]

Originally Posted by overdose14

i think gear box ratio have been changed.
and 2.2L now matched innova smoothness and is definitely a very good buy.Doc i our case vehicle was rock solid even at 150+ (speedo) and i think bhp figures are at crank.

I guess its time I put in my 2 cents (observed from 3rd Oct)

Here is the few detail straight from the Book apart from what i have posted before

1. BORE @85*96
2. 103KW@4000RPM
3. 320NM@1700-2700RPM
4. GEAR RATIOS
   1. 4.10 (This is really more than 3.0)
   2. 2.2
   3. 1.37
   4. 1.00
   5. .77 & REVERSE @3.75
5. CLUTCH SINGLE DRY (same as 3.0ltr)
   1. Let the clutch release bearing oil dry up and it will be lil rough and hard again As long as the clutch rel bearing sleeve is oiled at reg interval,its silky)
6. ALTERNATOR RATING 125 AMPS (rated down from 135amp 3.0ltr)

Views expressed below is on a vehicle which hasnt properly runin and is brand new.. therefore likely to be biased. They may improve or worsen as the vehicle goes through first service and so on...

• Steering feel & feedback on the new TD vehicle is better than before
• Better NVH (only time will tell how long it lasts)
• I mostly drive with windows down except hot sunny day, My trained ears could easily hear the strain on engine between 2500-3000 rpm. Maybe it will improve after runin period and 1 or 2 services.
• extremely linear power delivery though engine revs free.
• I disagree comparing/matched it to innovas smootheness
• Seems like they have reworked on the synchromesh making it smoother to throw gears around.(tata's cant make superb gearboxes so dont compare it with jap or us or european cars)
• Worse part.. didnt actually feel the power of 140 horses
• Makes it better than before to drive in city conditions

To cut the story short, I didnt find it very peppy to drive with, but kinda better. Gossips are going on about wait n watch..seriously.I am thinking of trading in my dicor with the new avtar by next diwali, if all goes well with the 2.2

On a lighter note, I could see lots of existing 3.0 ltr wealthy owner trading in their dicors of the current year for the new one. So in Pune..who so ever has faith in 3.0 can approach dealers for a good deal on 2nd hand dicor....
Cheers....

[doctorkats]

Steeroid:
1. 3.0 is a bit crude and there is a boom in the cabin @ §1600~1700.

2. Gearbox is anything but poor and doesnt vibrate. It is a pretty good box by most standards, except for the throw which is longish.

I agree.The gear box on the 3.0 is good and crisp.

3. I normally drive an automatic car, not even a geared sedan with a clutch. I have no issues with the clutch - every vehicle is different and its a bit unrealistic to expect a 3 litre truck to behave like a tiny sedan.

I second that.The clutch is pretty soft for a vehicle that size.

You will appreciate the clutch travel when you have to go off-road and have to control the torque to get out of sticky situations.

Like this....?
[img=http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1669/dsc02299zp0.th.jpg]



However lets go back to the 2.2. Its 3.something seconds faster to the hundred as the 3.0 does a 100 in 18.something.[/quote]

(twenty characters)

[Rahulk76]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

They werent. The latest Dicor Boy on the forum, Mr. Himanshu Lawyer Goswami should be able to confirm this.

Allegedly.. One of the 3.0 ltr DICORS I have seen in Pune does 160 on Expressway with a/c on effortlessly and well planted on the tarmac @2600rpm.
Anyways..

Has anyone booked new 2.2 on this forum....?

[BUSA]

Has anyone booked new 2.2 on this forum....?

Turbanman has booked a 2.2 VX

Dockap - Thats a awesome pic, currently my wallpaper

[dkamath]

Have any of you got a chance to take a look at the LX? Is the body cladding and bumpers colour same as that on the grill (i mean, handsome grey, or the earlier dull gray itself)?