[GTO]

I seriously do not understand about what is `not being a driver's car', a stick used to beat Corolla with. I have been driving Corolla for 19 months now, and so far I have thoroughly enjoyed it.

Vasudeva, I enjoy driving my Jeep the most from my garage, but that doesn't make it a drivers car. I think the Corolla & the Civic, as similar as they are, actually appeal to different types. For ride comfort, practicality, gizmos and better after-sales, the Altis it is. But as an enthusiast, I prefer driving the Civic. Let me tell you why (this is AFTER a spirited LONG night drive in the Altis):

- The Civic loves to high-revv. That's also the way I like to drive. The Altis engine doesn't (though it is more than powerful enough and has far superior driveability).

- The Civics steering is far more direct than the Altis'. At high speed, the Altis steering was still too light and devoid of feel.

- Cornering : The Altis understeers very (very) easily. Body roll is on the higher side too.

- Seating position : the low slung drivers seat of the Civic is to my taste.

I reiterate, am not trying to say that the Civic is a better car. Heck, for 99% of customers out there, the Altis is better....without a doubt. I am only trying to address your question on what makes a drivers car.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by GTO

(this is AFTER a spirited night drive in the Altis):

Can we have a detailed review of the Altis from you now GTO.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by GTO

Vasudeva, ... a drivers car.

Thanks a lot. But does `drivers' mean all drivers or some types of drivers. By saying `not a drivers' car', a person must state as to how a driver is defined!

Second: my observation was on the old Corolla, which was also not a `driver's car'. Have not driven the Altis, so cannot honestly say whether it drives better or worse.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Thanks a lot. But does `drivers' mean all drivers or some types of drivers. By saying `not a drivers' car', a person must state as to how a driver is defined!

Ah, good point. Let me rephrase that to silly high-revving drivers who like to stay at the top end. The smarter torque / driveability loving kind will prefer the Altis.

The Altis is an exceedingly practical sedan, way more friendly to live with on a daily basis than the Civic, and the one I'll recommend to more people than I do the Civic. But a diehard enthusiast will still be happier with the Honda.

Second: my observation was on the old Corolla, which was also not a `driver's car'. Have not driven the Altis, so cannot honestly say whether it drives better or worse.

Okay, I have posted this before and will post it again. The Altis, for all its newness, really feels like an evolved version of the older Corolla. Same engine, identical wheelbase, similar side / rear profiles. It is a massive improvement without doubt. But it retains a lot of qualities of the older Corolla and is identical in many ways. Major areas of improvement are within the ride quality, interiors (including amenities) and build.

(this is AFTER a spirited night drive in the Altis):

Will do, sir.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by GTO

Ah, good point. Let me rephrase that to silly high-revving drivers who like to stay at the top end. The smarter torque / driveability loving kind will prefer the Altis.

Major areas of improvement are within the ride quality, interiors (including amenities) and build.

I also have guessed (but could not confirm) that a driver's car is close to what you have defined.

Second: major areas of improvement that I could see were interiors (seen from my own eyes), ride quality (hearsay). On build quality however and overall look, I beg to differ. While it definitely looks more classy, I personally feel the fake wood finish of the old Corolla was better than the fake wood finish of the new one. Also, horror: I could perhaps see an uneven gap on the front driver side dash where the dash meets the windscreen.

[discobiscuit]

It is a very close to battle to even call one of them a winner.

Both cars will sell well in the market. If Honda doesnt plan on lowering their ex-showroom prices, it will push customers away from themselves and into the open arms of a toyota dealer.

To be honest, like GTO has mentioned, besides the low torque producing nature of the civic (in comparison to the Corolla) there really isn't any other drawback to the civic. And imho the civic looks far better (exterior and interior) than the new Corolla.

Both are winners. Go with whatever floats your boat

[GTO]

Originally Posted by discobiscuit

To be honest, like GTO has mentioned, besides the low torque producing nature of the civic (in comparison to the Corolla) there really isn't any other drawback to the civic.

There are actually (low rear seat / ground clearance / softie of a rear suspension). Search around the forum to know more.

[lancer_rit]

Originally Posted by GTO

There are actually (low rear seat / ground clearance / softie of a rear suspension). Search around the forum to know more.

The rear seat is low, and the arched roof as well is pretty low, when one gets in/out of the civic. OTOH, it has a lot of knee room, a flat tunnel section, and is more comfortable for the 5th passenger than most other cars in the segment - something of a dichotomy ?
I wonder if a padded seat cover can improve the low seating ?

[Ym-enjn]

Originally Posted by GTO

Ah, good point. Let me rephrase that to silly high-revving drivers who like to stay at the top end. The smarter torque / driveability loving kind will prefer the Altis.

The Altis is an exceedingly practical sedan, way more friendly to live with on a daily basis than the Civic, and the one I'll recommend to more people than I do the Civic. But a diehard enthusiast will still be happier with the Honda.

That explains a lot of things including why many says that Altis is better but then they vote for Civic. Also it explains why Altis for Head and Civic for Heart, and the likes that Altis for practicle and Civic for young etc etc.

Welcome to the head (Altis) and heart (Civic) war club. But for lucky me no war, my head and heart both sing Altis.

[navin]

Originally Posted by GTO

I am only trying to address your question on what makes a drivers car.

To some degree it depends on your driving style. I like to change gears early and hence prefer cars with good low end torque (sub 4000rpm) to something that clatters at 7500 rpm.

Another example: F1 drivers dont follow the same rules (read as racing line, revs for gear change, etc..) as most other drivers (which is why Stig is most probably NOT a former or aspiring F1 driver).

Disclaimer: Some cars like the vRs offer both (good low end torque as well as a free revving engine) but that is not the object of this thread.

I have driven both the Altis and the Civic and both cars have that "something special" feeling missing.

[Path_Finder]

Originally Posted by GTO

....I reiterate, am not trying to say that the Civic is a better car. Heck, for 99% of customers out there, the Altis is better....without a doubt. I am only trying to address your question on what makes a drivers car.

Well said. The Altis is the all-rounder whereas the Civic is a niche - for that 1%. Unfortunately most Civic buyers or those who go after it do not understand this fully.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Path_Finder

Well said. The Altis is the all-rounder whereas the Civic is a niche - for that 1%.

Well, the market seems to echo that sentiment. The Civic recently suffered a month-on-month decline to an all time low. 15 months in a row of falling sales!!

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by Path_Finder

Well said. The Altis is the all-rounder whereas the Civic is a niche - for that 1%. Unfortunately most Civic buyers or those who go after it do not understand this fully.

Looking at the sales figures of Civic and Corolla in the largest market-US, it would be safe to assume that they are roughly equally preferred, neither is in a `niche' segment (appealing to a few only), and thus from this it would seem that the number of two (or more) kinds of `drivers' are roughly more or less equal.

[swageo]

Originally Posted by GTO

- The Civic loves to high-revv. That's also the way I like to drive. The Altis engine doesn't (though it is more than powerful enough and has far superior driveability).

I don't follow this statement about reving. What made to feel that Altis doesn't like to get rev'd.

[himanshukalia]

I will vote for Civic 1.8 AT because of extreme reliability of vtech engines("a more than 15 million made so far and not single warranty claim")
Also civic has paddle shift for sporty feel