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Old 4th April 2012, 23:22   #3151
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

@all

agreed its kinda fun but still for a newbie who goes for a drive initially will feel little scared or so,
the thing is while taking a corner at 80-90+ speeds the front digs in real tightly and holds the line but the rear is super eager to change the link and drag the car to the next lane.

I myself know this behavior can be improved or even irradicated my wider tires and stiffer sprots suspension but then question is
If I have paid 15L for the car why not I get it as STOCK ?? Many other car in and below its category dont suffer from this problem eg laura etc

Fine the car has bigger wheelbase than its competitors which gives it a edge over others when it comes to interior space

But considering that too Shouldn honda provide appropriate and CONNECTED front and rear ?

@nc

Lets not talk about the A-pillar problem
It can hide anything from a person to a bike to a Half rickshaw!

@Gaurav

well i will say 800 ka chassis is very well sorted for its class or super small hatch i might say 2nd to the alto but then theres no fun in alto cause of its dead EPS steering and so with the Old zen too!
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Old 5th April 2012, 07:17   #3152
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I will say this is oversteering. A nasty trait for all but the expert. Most fwd cars have a tendency to dig in on the front wheels. The best way to correct/minimise it (in fact the proper way to drive) is to accelerate out of corners.
+1.

Having driven the Civic 2007 model into silky smooth roads and almost all terrains which you guys would not have subjected the car to, I am happy the way it performed till now. That's my opinion based out of facts.

At high speed corners, the trick I always use was to dab brakes for a little help with EBD to correct the relative velocities of the wheels before the turn and accelerate out of the curves. I had till now no cribs about the behaviour.

And about the GC, I guess every practical person had know this before putting his money on to the car. And there is always ways to handle that. I can say that from experience.

And NO - I am not speaking for or against Honda. I penned my experiences with my car.

Last edited by GTO : 6th April 2012 at 13:53. Reason: Lets keep posts on high speed off the forum please. Thanks
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Old 5th April 2012, 11:17   #3153
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Post Re: 1,00,000 kms Milestone

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
i want to know is there any special way you drive the car.
Just back from a nearly 1,000 kms drive.

When I bought my car in 2007, I was reckless (and younger!).
In the first year I got very low FE, 8 to 10 kmpl only.
(I was spoilt by my previous Honda City 1.5, 1999 model!).

Now I am older and wiser!

I deliberately started to change my driving habits for reasons of 1) safety, 2) FE, and most important 3) Stress-free. This last point is important since my family has a history of heart-problems and I wanted to change myself to a more road-rage-free person. And I succeeded!

Other reasons:
1) 100% self-driven. I never even give it to my wife!
2) 100% stock. Not even sun-film since it means removing/refitting the door-pads.

FE for this last 1,000 kms drive was 13.4 kmpl, and includes a trip up and down the Nilgiris mountains.
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Old 5th April 2012, 11:34   #3154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipsyde
Which car is short of problems? Lauras were plagued with poor A S S and AC problems. Not to forget the DSG boxes conking off around 70-80k km mark. Verna with its vague steering. i20's with the AC and steering issues. Linea with GC issues, rusting, AC problems and clutch trouble. Why even the big guns like Mercs and BMWs have their fair share of problems like SBC in the E270, electronic problems in the early A6s etc
When I decided it was going to be the Civic I was fully aware of the knowledge that I am buying a Jap, so it's basically 15L INR for the engine and loose change for everything else. And I must say again (have put it on record in my ownership thread) that the "everything else" is worth far more than loose change. Case in point is the steering. I was also perfectly OK with the wheelbase + GC thing, although the car underwent some damage initially before I could fully learn to handle this aspect. No issues now, after 1.5 years and 24800 kms.

However, what I wasn't prepared for was the following -

1. Squeaking clutch pedal in 15 days (before the 1st service)
2. Rattling roof panel in a few more days' time
3. HASS *refusing* to accept that there is a problem, sometimes (I can live with incompetence but not without empathy/acknowledgement)
4. The more complex/costly bits seemingly going out of peak working condition so soon (well within warranty itself, leave alone extended warranty)

If you notice, 1-3 aren't major issues arising out of the complexity of the vehicle. And after spending 15+ these things rankle. Regarding 4, I did mention that the 800 was far less complex, so it's OK and you raise very valid comparisons indeed. Point #4 is a simple expectation reset that I need to do, I guess.

And finally, I still love driving the car except when roads are really bad. That's what counts at the end. Like Prof. said I've tuned my driving style to suit this car's quirks (mainly GC and rear suspension). For example, I'll stomach it and go slow without pushing if I think the road surface isn't ideal and not work myself up over it. This attitude change is still a work-in-progress.

Quirks are different from (perceived or real) malfunctions. One hopes things can be better but that doesn't imply that current behaviour is faulty. Sub-optimal, perhaps, but not faulty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806
I am a surprised reading this, did you get the suspensions checked, although my Civic is newer but i have taken with full load (Four adults + Luggage) over 1500Kms long drive which includes fast 4 lanes highway and bad yet to tared roads and never the rear gave a feeling that its going to step out of the way.

The speeds we did were much higher that 90, you could look at my TL for more details. Never did the car scrape or felt wobbly at any speed on any terrain.
The rear stepping out behaviour that I've observed is not speed-dependent. It's about the rear wheels hitting a bump mid-corner or edging a rut/ridge etc. I've wilfully made the rear skip sideways even at 40-ish kmph. One just needs to find the right imperfection on the road.

There are absolutely no issues on good (or even half-decent) roads usually.

I've had the misfortune of navigating the car on roads like Gajendragarh - Kushtagi - Sindhanur, where trucks were zig-zagging to avoid craters and tractors were driving with their left wheels off the road because the earth beyond the road shoulder was smoother than the road! The car sailed through brilliantly with nary a hit to its underside.

These aren't the issues at all. What I've observed with the rear are 2 very specific situations (4/5 pax + luggage and quick manoeuvres/overtaking; rough roads which can make the rear tyres catch the edges of these imperfections and skip sideways). Like I said earlier I will treat this behaviour as sub-optimal and not faulty. I never mentioned these even once to HASS because they really can't do anything about these. The fix, like you've all pointed out is better rubber and suspension bits. That time shall come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jatinpatel
@mayank that might be because your is the face-lifted civic with changes to the mounting points to rear shocks it might be that Honda might have tweaked the rear suspension geometry a bit or they might have stiffened the shocks.

Mine is an 07 pre facelift
suspension is in top nick got it checked and re-torqued at Honda itself.
Mine's a post-facelift (July 2010 mfg.) car. Tyres and suspension are absolutely stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartcat
What Jatin is saying is true. Civic is tail happy - the rear end loses grip before the front does. Although, I consider this trait to add to the fun factor, rather than feel nervous. Because of the tail happy rear, Civic will rarely understeer in corners - the front end simply digs in.
Surprisingly, I've encountered understeer as well even when not carrying too much speed into the curve or accelerating too hard out of the curve.

This was a curve en route my daily commute in Hyderabad. I always had to back off the throttle a little and turn into the curve a bit more than I started off with. Perhaps it's a reducing radius curve and I didn't really notice it, or it could just be the stock tyres (which I think are fairly good, truth be told), or maybe I just chickened out every time. I definitely don't think I used to carry too much speed into this corner.

Net-net - considering FWD and neutral toe at front and the insane power surge at those easily attainable high revs - I'm happy with the car's front-end's behaviour. The steering is to die for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks
And about the GC, I guess every practical person had know this before putting his money on to the car. And there is always ways to handle that. I can say that from experience.
GC is a non-issue like I said earlier. In fact I never even "blamed" Honda for not "fixing the GC" with the facelift because I am convinced that that was not the intent behind the facelift. And you can't beat geometry/physics.

Regards,
spadix

Last edited by GTO : 6th April 2012 at 13:55. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 5th April 2012, 11:48   #3155
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I will say this is oversteering. A nasty trait for all but the expert. Most fwd cars have a tendency to dig in on the front wheels. The best way to correct/minimise it (in fact the proper way to drive) is to accelerate out of corners.

Civic has two features - as has been pointed out a very long wheel base, and also Honda refused to compromise on the handling by increasing the height and/or put in stiffer springs. After some time slowing down when entering a speed bump or pothole becomes second nature.
Well, my experience with civic has been understeering than oversteering. I have faced this issue many times, when the car tends to get into the outer edge of the curve even if the steering wheel is directed correctly. I think most FWD cars will have this problem, if driven fast around a corner. Oversteering is more of an issue with RWD cars, where the real wheels steps out when front wheels are turned causing the car to almost turn the other way.

Last edited by vasoo : 5th April 2012 at 11:51.
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Old 5th April 2012, 15:41   #3156
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

As i stated above the ride of Civic is good, have never felt anything in fast speed straights or corners and both front and rear keep the line. On cases where the road is uneven the rear looses traction not because of suspension setup or any design flaw, i believe it looses line because of road being uneven and the rear tyres struggle for grip and hence feel they are loosing direction.

This could be the case in any other car, so if i take my Baleno on a fast corner and there happens to be a small speed beaker in the corner or road surface being uneven both front and rear seem like they have lost direction for a fraction of a second and immediately they are back to normal.

That being said, the only area i feel bad in Civic is soft suspensions, as when going over a big speed beaker if the speed is on the higher side the suspensions compress so much that they give a massive THUD. Post warranty i would contemplate changing to some stiffer suspensions.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 5th April 2012 at 16:06.
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Old 5th April 2012, 18:56   #3157
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The ABS on the civic behaves like a over protective parent. It kicks in way too early.

I am comparing it to the vrs where the ABS kicked in just at that prefect moment when I used to feel that I might lose it.

The civic's simply kicks in even before understanding what's happening

Last edited by normally_crazy : 5th April 2012 at 19:00.
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Old 5th April 2012, 20:19   #3158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806
This could be the case in any other car, so if i take my Baleno on a fast corner and there happens to be a small speed beaker in the corner or road surface being uneven both front and rear seem like they have lost direction for a fraction of a second and immediately they are back to normal.
It recovers quickly, no doubt about that.

The European cars are a bit better at not losing it in the first place, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy
The ABS on the civic behaves like a over protective parent. It kicks in way too early.

I am comparing it to the vrs where the ABS kicked in just at that prefect moment when I used to feel that I might lose it.

The civic's simply kicks in even before understanding what's happening
Stock tyres or something else? I've experienced ABS kicking in early only when braking over bad surfaces. Perhaps the tyres lift off the ground momentarily or something, at speed.

Regards,
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Old 5th April 2012, 20:33   #3159
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Default Re: 1,00,000 kms Milestone

Quote:
Originally Posted by manim View Post
Just back from a nearly 1,000 kms drive.

When I bought my car in 2007, I was reckless (and younger!).
In the first year I got very low FE, 8 to 10 kmpl only.
(I was spoilt by my previous Honda City 1.5, 1999 model!).

Now I am older and wiser!

I deliberately started to change my driving habits for reasons of 1) safety, 2) FE, and most important 3) Stress-free. This last point is important since my family has a history of heart-problems and I wanted to change myself to a more road-rage-free person. And I succeeded!

Other reasons:
1) 100% self-driven. I never even give it to my wife!
2) 100% stock. Not even sun-film since it means removing/refitting the door-pads.

FE for this last 1,000 kms drive was 13.4 kmpl, and includes a trip up and down the Nilgiris mountains.
Thank you for sharing your experiences Manim, appreciate it.I too find fast and furious style of driving stressful and go easy on the Civic than i do in my old 800.I also believe the 'key' to have a well maintained car is not to hand over the car keys to anyone else to drive :-).

Though my Civic was bought used so i cant say how many people drove it but from the point i got it i am gonna make sure it more or less remains in my hands only (except for service etc ).

thanks
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Old 5th April 2012, 20:39   #3160
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadix View Post
It recovers quickly, no doubt about that.The European cars are a bit better at not losing it in the first place, though.
What do you think could be reason behind this?

I thought as Japanese cars are lighter hence when going over a small hump at speed the wheels leave the ground for a fraction of second (maybe for a inches) giving the driver the feeling that the car has lost traction. Europeans being heavier car do not leave the ground even for a fraction of second hence this is never a problem. This has been my theory, not sure right or wrong.
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Old 5th April 2012, 21:53   #3161
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramanak View Post
What was the max speed and where did you manage to try it?
Oh Boy!!!Did the vehicle not show any hints of toppling??? How big an arc was the U-turn? What were the precautions you took?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
You need to tell us more on these experiences, now that you have let the "cat out of the bag".

The technique that you have described for turning is probably the best one to adopt.
I don't want to state about the speeds and where it happened, as its against our forum rules. I can say is that Civic is limited at a certain speed, and we have tested it and found it loses it sheen almost near to that figure and then onwards it screams and struggles for every inch of acceleration. But the girl is well behaved except for her screams .

You can imagine taking an RX100 and maxing it out on the third and fourth gears with smokes belching from the back and vehicle screaming aloud.

About the U turn consider it to be like a break in the median and you turning in without applying brakes to the other side. It was on NCT5 when we testeed it, except for a bit of tyre squeaks the car never lost its direction.

The EBD really helps in such scenes where the relative velocities of each tyres are different - especially when you take insane curves.
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Old 5th April 2012, 22:27   #3162
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Default re: Honda Civic : Maintenance, Service Costs and Must dos

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
About the U turn consider it to be like a break in the median and you turning in without applying brakes to the other side. It was on NCT5 when we testeed it, except for a bit of tyre squeaks the car never lost its direction.

The EBD really helps in such scenes where the relative velocities of each tyres are different - especially when you take insane curves.
No offence but if a break in median type of turn at insane speeds did not have the car lose it's poise - I find that hard to believe EBD or no EBD !
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Old 6th April 2012, 06:51   #3163
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
No offence but if a break in median type of turn at insane speeds did not have the car lose it's poise - I find that hard to believe EBD or no EBD !
No offense. I know. I can vouch for your feelings. Probably my mention of median made it imply the two fast lanes, it was more spread out than that.We tried these with varying speeds gradually increasing till we find a point where the car begins to wander.We did take some videos, let me see if I can get my hands on it. It was over a few years ago we did these circus.




I am getting a slight plasticky rubbing/creaking sounds from the steering area inside the cabin. Anybody with the same experience?

80K service is nearby. Last year the car ran for only 6500Km, the least ever in its stay with me.

Last edited by laluks : 6th April 2012 at 07:04.
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Old 6th April 2012, 12:34   #3164
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post

I had driven around the car at insane speeds, locked the speedo at its highest for over some minutes, made it cry that it cant accelerate further, et all just for the fun sake of the R18 engine.

Had taken corners at insane speeds of over 160+, with the stock NCT 5, the trick I always use was to dab brakes for a little help with EBD to correct the relative velocities of the wheels before the turn and accelerate out of the curves. I had till now no cribs about the behaviour.

And an insane test we had subjected the car to was to make an U turn at 120+ and the car held its cool. This was not done on the streets, but with enough precautions to see if it misbehaves. It never did and held its cool.
The best place to try these stunts, and check the handling capabilities of a car in general is to head to Fort Aguada in Goa. There is a helipad just off the fort where you can go round and round in circles if you want to. I'd recommend taking things slow in the beginning (lots of things can go wrong), and slowly increasing the pace till the chassis or the tyres start protesting.


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Old 6th April 2012, 14:06   #3165
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Originally Posted by laluks View Post
I am getting a slight plasticky rubbing/creaking sounds from the steering area inside the cabin. Anybody with the same experience?
I get a tinkling sound from behind me - rear seat somewhere. It's constant and it's irritating. I am going to depute a person to sit on the rear sit and I will keep driving till he doesn't pin point where the noise is coming from
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