[desertfox]

Fixed flange is more reliable for sure, but now there are more moving parts all the time. the front axle rod will rotate always.

In the MM550 as well people were discarding the free floating hubs here in Delhi.

The fuel consumption may go up a bit but who cares ?

Its more fun in a Jeep.

Dont have the time otherwise I would have gone and got my Thar today.
Maybe tomorrow or day after or ask the Sterling Motors guys to send it home.

[cpbopanna]

Originally Posted by manveet

Request senior Jeepers to please comment on this. The background context, as well as the pros and cons of this development. I was not aware that these hubs were a source of complaint.

Is this an improvement on the Thar?

4WD Mahindras always had fixed flanges, the free-wheeling hubs were Lambda, after-market. Fixed flanges result in the front wheels turning the front drive-train until the transfer case even in 2WD mode, i.e. front axles, front differential, front propeller shaft, etc. This causes unnecessary friction, load on the drive-train and thereby loss of mileage.

However, the fixed flanges were cheaper for the manufacturer, vis-a-vis free-wheeling hubs.

In lockable free-wheeling hubs, as the name suggests, in the free-mode, the wheels turning do not effect the drive-train, but the only effort required is to manually lock the hubs (when 4WD is required) and manually unlock the the hubs (when 4WD is no longer required).

The auto locking hubs on the Thar eliminates the need for manual locking our unlocking the front hubs for 4WD use or other wise.

Maruti Gypsies first came with free-wheeling hubs, if I remember right, some time in the late 90s, they switched over to fixed flanges.

Probably the reason is cost saving, I do not know.
Insofar as the Mahindras are concerned, only a hard-core off-roader will be able to confirm whether the switch to fixed flanges was driven by technical considerations or otherwise!

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by manveet

Request senior Jeepers to please comment on this. The background context, as well as the pros and cons of this development. I was not aware that these hubs were a source of complaint.

Is this an improvement on the Thar?

My Thar has a problem with this. I have not done anything about it yet. I will comment further when I know something definite.

[vivekjayasheel]

I read on an american off-roading forum that fixed flanges are better than free-wheeling hubs, because critical moving parts remain lubricated. The slightly higher fuel-consumption is cheap insurance.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by cpbopanna

Probably the reason is cost saving. Only a hard-core off-roader will be able to confirm whether the switch to fixed flanges was driven by technical considerations or otherwise!

Dear cpbopanna - of course there is a huge cost saving because the complete disengagement mechanism is eliminated so no warranty hassles + all the complicated logistics of importing sub-assemblies is also eliminated. Introduction of flange is done for cost saving only. Period. Then they sell the "new" vehicle "at the same price as before" and "existing customers can also change over". Come on now! HaHaHa! .

From a "hard-core off roader" (Palar Challenge / EXAMM / AKC) perspective, all of us know that we want rock solid reliability. In other words, we want that front wheel to turn when we need it the most in off road situations. We (at least I) don't really care if the front axle shafts / front differential / front propeller shaft keep on turning even when I am in 2WD. Therefore, from sheer reliability point of view, nothing matches the flange (if it is engineered properly so that it works properly).

"As usual", I am attaching a picture of "my baby" with the flange when I did the EXAMM / AKC. EXAMM / AKC was the acid test of the vehicle at that time, I took absolutely no chances. See for yourself! I have tested upto 162 kmph on expressways with the front aggregates turning, there was never even a hint of coefficient of rolling resistance / NVH increasing. I had used the flanges taken straight off a "competitor" vehicle, pre-checked and found totally conforming to engineering requirements. Even the 6 fasteners, including their method of attachment, was engineered for this application. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[desertfox]

Exactly. When the 4x4 mode is engaged one needs to be absolutely sure that it is indeed locked and engaged. Without a 4WD locked in a tough off road situation if one drives on it can be a unncecessary difficulty that can be avoided if you get stuck. Why not be sure ? It is always better to have a more reliable mechanism I would advocate that specially in the absence of a 4WD engaged indicator lamp as well.

As for the extra drive train roll, well it is no longer a CJ3B. Technology today is more advanced you dont even feel it on the highway, I have driven so many full time 4WD vehicles for years, you dont feel it at all.

As for city driving these days, one is very lucky if there is a clear road to drive at 50 kmph you thank your lucky stars. So it really makes an insignificant amount of difference.

But I still need a few queries answered from Thar owners.

Can a gear lock be fixed in a thar ?
has anyone fitted a lock on the glove box lid ?
How much do a set of 5 x alloy wheels cost to mount OE tyres i.e. 235/70/R16 ?

[Thar4x4]

Originally Posted by vivekjayasheel

I read on an american off-roading forum that fixed flanges are better than free-wheeling hubs, because critical moving parts remain lubricated. The slightly higher fuel-consumption is cheap insurance.

I don't think this is a better way to lubricate the 4WD mechanism, I use my Thar 10% for off-roading and 90% for daily commute. I engage 4H once in a month on bad roads (construction site near my home) to keep the mechanism lubricated and I guess that is enough.

Replacing auto locking hub (after market cost more than 10 K) with fixed flanges and adding some brackets and dashboard buttons (can be done in 2/3 K from fabricator) is certainly not welcome change.

What about the major issue Brake. No upgrade.

B pillar will not fall off and AC buttons are working perfect in current version, auto locking hub issue is where rear and will stop Thar from running but every Thar have brake issue which is totally ignored after lots of complaint here on TBHP and on FB as well.

Manveet, My apologies if the above content is OT on your ownership thread but I can't stop myself from writing this.

Thanks,
Vishal.

[Kandisa]

Some visuals of the changes have been posted here by cpbopanna: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...thar-crde.html
Expected the thread in the 4x4 vehicles section though.

[cpbopanna]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

Some visuals of the changes have been posted here by cpbopanna: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...thar-crde.html
Expected the thread in the 4x4 vehicles section though.

My apologies - posting it in the appropriate thread now!

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by manveet

please comment on this. The background context, as well as the pros and cons of this development. I was not aware that these hubs were a source of complaint.

Is this an improvement on the Thar?

Auto locking hubs are know for their unpredictability and sometimes they have mind of their own. I must have seen more than 10 failures (including falling off of these hubs on highway, coming out from axle while offroading, not engaging when required).
In national Mahindra Offroad trophy challenge, they had to change few Thars back to back because of aforesaid issue (hubs were not engaging).
last month one of our offroader friend had to complete the trail in three wheel drive because one hub fell somewhere on the way to trail.
Welcome change from Mahindra

Shubhendra

[desertfox]

Three wheel drive ! Incredibily brilliant. Never heard such a thing before. No damages ? Front diffrential damage, drive shaft damage ?

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Three wheel drive ! Incredibily brilliant. Never heard such a thing before. No damages ? Front diffrential damage, drive shaft damage ?

No Damage, completed entire trail and 150 kms back journey, failed to complete few obstacles though !

[desertfox]

Got my Thar today. Rocky Beige.

Initial observations :

Good ones.

This AC can cool.
Its a Jeep thing ! Fun to drive.
Improved interiors, door panel trim, AC switch etc. are good.
Agency service excellent. They even sent a driver to drop my Bolero home which is being sold today.
There is a locking box under the passenger seat! Great.

Negative side :

The CRDe engine is not a whizz. Scorpio mHawk engine is much better. CRDe is a huge improvement over the DI engine but no real extra ordinary pep here.

The canopy makes a lot of noise. Too much simply.
On speed breakers the vehicle bounces a lot. Reduced tyre pressure to 30 psi, a little improvement.
A funny squeaking sound coming at every bump, perhaps one of the front shockers is bad.
Rattling sound from a few other places in the vehicle too.

Will drive it around a bit and then get the niggles sorted out.

I guess I am going to install a Hyderabad hard top in it.

[invincible7]

Originally Posted by desertfox

Got my Thar today. Rocky Beige.

Initial observations :

Good ones.

This AC can cool.
Its a Jeep thing ! Fun to drive.
Improved interiors, door panel trim, AC switch etc. are good.
Agency service excellent. They even sent a driver to drop my Bolero home which is being sold today.
There is a locking box under the passenger seat! Great.

Negative side :

The CRDe engine is not a whizz. Scorpio mHawk engine is much better. CRDe is a huge improvement over the DI engine but no real extra ordinary pep here.

The canopy makes a lot of noise. Too much simply.
On speed breakers the vehicle bounces a lot. Reduced tyre pressure to 30 psi, a little improvement.
A funny squeaking sound coming at every bump, perhaps one of the front shockers is bad.
Rattling sound from a few other places in the vehicle too.

Will drive it around a bit and then get the niggles sorted out.

I guess I am going to install a Hyderabad hard top in it.

Congratulations for the most talked about purchase here over past few weeks. Do post some pics of the changes you feel with the new Thar.

I am sure you have plans to modify it to suit your requirement - hope to see a thread around it soon.

[mobike008]

Congrats Desertfox in acquring the Mahindra THAR.

Wish you many happy miles on same.

P.S: If you would like to share detailed ownership information on same. We request you to start a dedicated thread in the ownership section.

Have fun, Enjoy !!!