[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by silversteed

It's not just a chip, it involves some hardware, including a GPS antenna. It's the quality of the antenna that decides the signal strength captured by the GPS hardware.

Thats why I said, if number of satellites registered are same.
GPS accuracy depends on number of satellites the GPS can register. It does not matter what is the signal level as long as it is above the threshold.
Speaking of inbuilt antennas, many standalone GPS systems I have used in concrete jungles like SFO stop getting a fix without an external antenna.
Infact, in such scenarios a cold fix on a standalone GPS takes almost 20 minutes, where a mobile phone gets a quicker fix because it can download the ephemeris data over its data internet connection.
In general, many handheld GPS systems have a better antenna, but sadly, most sub 150$ consumer GPS standalone systems have very poor GPS antennas.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by silversteed

It's not just a chip, it involves some hardware, including a GPS antenna. It's the quality of the antenna that decides the signal strength captured by the GPS hardware.

A dedicated GPS module will have a better antenna.


A mobile phone with A-GPS can provide reasonably accurate positioning and navigation. Unless you need an accuracy of a few metres, a mobile phone is good enough

Well just check the few popular GPS units being sold in market none of them have dedicated antenna and a very few of the newer units even have connector for the external antenna.
No the Antenna is not gone but the USB charging cable attached to GPS unit in your car doubles up as an antenna.

So you can do the same experiment with mobile , leave the USB cable attached and check , I bet the lock in time will be faster then a dedicated unit due to AGPS as AGPS provides initial data to fix the satellite.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Well just check the few popular GPS units being sold in market none of them have dedicated antenna and a very few of the newer units even have connector for the external antenna.
No the Antenna is not gone but the USB charging cable attached to GPS unit in your car doubles up as an antenna.

So you can do the same experiment with mobile , leave the USB cable attached and check , I bet the lock in time will be faster then a dedicated unit due to AGPS as AGPS provides initial data to fix the satellite.

Yes, but the GPS in the phone needs to be wired in a way to exploit the USB cable as an antenna, which I doubt. If connecting a cable would improve reception, the headset also should help. This does not happen, at least not in my phone.

When I said the antenna in a dedicated GPS module, I meant, the part of the module that captures the radio waves and takes it in to the final electronics that converts it into coordinate data. Whether it's an embedded antenna, or an ariel or a USB Cable - the electronics inside is designed to utilize the dimensions of the metallic part

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by silversteed

Yes, but the GPS in the phone needs to be wired in a way to exploit the USB cable as an antenna, which I doubt. If connecting a cable would improve reception, the headset also should help. This does not happen, at least not in my phone.

When I said the antenna in a dedicated GPS module, I meant, the part of the module that captures the radio waves and takes it in to the final electronics that converts it into coordinate data. Whether it's an embedded antenna, or an ariel or a USB Cable - the electronics inside is designed to utilize the dimensions of the metallic part

I very well understand what Antenna is just try out. Any way the part of module which captures radio wave is exactly called the antenna it is purely mechanical and passive element , The electronic part is RF pre-amp shich has to be stronger in the device which does not have external antenna compared to a device that can have external antenna.

FYI the best length for simple wire antenna is half wavelength.
GPS operate on L1 signal and for that wavelength is 19.5 cm so if you need you can open the back of your cellphone check where the Antenna connector is and solder a copper foil coiled with total length of 9.75 cm and it should work , Of-course most probably you already have this in the phone in much more optimized design.

[silversteed]

Originally Posted by amitk26

I very well understand what Antenna is just try out.Any way the part of module which captures radio wave is exactly called the antennait is purely mechanical and passive element , The electronic part is RF pre-amp shich has to be stronger in the device which does not have external antenna compared to a device that can have external antenna.

FYI the best length for simple wire antenna is half wavelength.
GPS operate on L1 signal and for that wavelength is 19.5 cm so if you need you can open the back of your cellphone check where the Antenna connector is and solder a copper foil coiled with total length of 9.75 cm and it should work , Of-course most probably you already have this in the phone in much more optimized design.

Good to know that we're talking in the same wavelength . Hope you're aware of Transmission lines and impedance matching. I meant just that. At the place where I work, I encounter problems with reception just because of the way a particular antenna end trace is wired to the Amp stage. (Er... I would not have written this, but just to let you know what I meant. Would be interested to continue the conversation in techie terms offline. Will PM you soon)

I said that the antenna in the mobile phone is a inferior in quality keeping in mind all the passives at the place where the antenna trace ends. Accept the mistake that I interpreted the term antenna wrongly. In any case, the mobile phone sub systems have constraints. There are an umpteen number of compliance certifications to pass and for that shielding et al are used. This also includes adjusting the gain of the amps, if needed.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by silversteed

I said that the antenna in the mobile phone is a inferior in quality keeping in mind all the passives at the place where the antenna trace ends. Accept the mistake that I interpreted the term antenna wrongly. In any case, the mobile phone sub systems have constraints. There are an umpteen number of compliance certifications to pass and for that shielding et al are used. This also includes adjusting the gain of the amps, if needed.

Check your PM for details.

The GPS units being sold in India are re-badged Chinese units and if you open them you will be surprised to see how good / bad their antenna is, basically they are supplied with a budget unshielded USB cable which acts as antenna. Basically these units already have an antenna but the unshielded cable augments it , I think the impedance matching is factored in at the design stage itself. Also there are multiple antennas not a single multiband antenna in case of mobile , If you open Nexus S which is evolution of Galaxy S , The NFC antenna is embedded in the back cover and looks like a sticker there are 2 gold contact points which connects this when you close. This is a quick and early antenna design and over design cycles probably it will move in.

In good mobile phones 80% of times the GPS problems are due to application software issues related to missed events , priority issues etc rather then any real hardware issue. This does not mean there are no hardware issues but I am saying most of the time.

If you have noticed on Android phones most of the time GPS works very well on google maps but on some application like Compass downloaded from market it takes ages ..similarly software updates cure these problems at times as in case of Galaxy S.

I think we are going OT so lets take rest of it if required on PM

[sanagg1]

@silversteed
@amitk26

Really "Heavy Metal" talk.
Would some one care to summarize the conclusion in simple words.

Thanks
Cheers

[yajaman99]

Just had a look at the Nokia C7 today, a friend has picked it up. Looks like a rocking phone with 8MP camera. If i did not have my Samsung Wave i would pick this one up. Real nice metal body looks smashing.

[shankar.balan]

The dark grey N8 indeed looks lovely. So does the silver one which I bought.

and even the green and orange look very attractive from the pictures.
very high desirability quotient.

I can vouch for the quality of the N8 and its camera as well. It is an excellent phone and I am happy to own one. The GPS works very well too. But it is perhaps marginally less quick on the uptake than my Garmin (in-car) device is - while driving.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Yeah dark grey, for a layman like me its black. The sales guy also corrected my request form - he scratched out black and wrote dark grey

I have been waiting for the E7 for a while now. So dillydallying on the N8. No idea about the N9, is it really happening?

If N9 == N8 + slideout qwerty. Then its some more waiting for me. I could like to have that camera.

[RakishRam]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I have been waiting for the E7 for a while now. So dillydallying on the N8. No idea about the N9, is it really happening?

If N9 == N8 + slideout qwerty. Then its some more waiting for me. I could like to have that camera.

Hmmm, I would say E7 is N8+ slideout qwerty - 4MP from camera. I think E7 should be out by this month.
N9 is totally new, comes with MeeGo and due for March/April. here is some release info of N9.

[NetfreakBombay]

N9 does seem to be an excellent device. Hope someone finds a way to run android on it. Given that this would also run Linux (MeeGo), this does look feasible to run Android on it.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The dark grey N8 indeed looks lovely.

Black (or dark grey) is the one I would buy. Yeah read your review on the N8. Good one.

Originally Posted by RakishRam

Hmmm, I would say E7 is N8+ slideout qwerty - 4MP from camera. I think E7 should be out by this month.
N9 is totally new, comes with MeeGo and due for March/April. here is some release info of N9.

Interesting. I had almost picked up the N900 and then heard about the N8 and prayed that it would come with Maemo instead of Symbian. But didn't happen. Now its N9 minus the camera. Tough choice. Will wait and watch and save a bit more. Thanks for the link.

[navin]

Originally Posted by RakishRam

Hmmm, I would say E7 is N8+ slideout qwerty - 4MP from camera. I think E7 should be out by this month.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

But didn't happen. Now its N9 minus the camera. Tough choice. Will wait and watch and save a bit more. Thanks for the link.

The E7 camera does NOT have auto focus (like the N8). The N9 will only have a 5MP camera.

[geeta]

Can anyone suggest a 3G mobile with good camera and sound within the range of Rs. 12000/-

[zoom2_ash]

Originally Posted by yajaman99

Just had a look at the Nokia C7 today, a friend has picked it up. Looks like a rocking phone with 8MP camera. If i did not have my Samsung Wave i would pick this one up. Real nice metal body looks smashing.

I am bit surprised that you liked C7 after using Wave if its S8500 because I am using Wave and wave is better then C7 in every aspect. I agree, C7 looks are good but apart from that nothing else works in favor of C7 if you compare it with wave(S8500). C7 camera 8 MP is total crap without auto focus. Wave camera is so much better infact i would say it even better then N8 . It takes sharper and more crisp snaps then N8.

Moreover, C7 is so slow whereas Wave's response time is fantastic.

Originally Posted by geeta

Can anyone suggest a 3G mobile with good camera and sound within the range of Rs. 12000/-

If camera is your preference, then check out Samsung Wave733. it has excellent camera, good fast responsive touch screen, good looks, good music quality.
Otherwise, LG optimus one is the best overall mobile available under 12000 Rs in india with android 2.2 OS.

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