[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

I guess it is bit of a stretch to compare the structural rigidity of an Aston Martin with a Suzuki. For a given target of Rigidity ( which I presume is lower for Swift), weight reduction using stronger material is perfectly feasible. The high strength steel benefit is no fairy tale. For Mass market players Aluminum and Magnesium are infeasible options. Hence Steel. I do not know your technical background but there is hell of a lot of stuff that is going on in material research. I guess a plastic automobile engine would also seem like a fairy tale except for the fact that it has been achieved at Lab level. Production en masse is another issue. So, pls do not call stronger materials as fairy tale.
And with due respect ( although NCAP does not deserve it), GNCAP is never going to have it's time in the sun in India. Scaremongering tactics of GNCAP to hard sell EU manufacturers agenda did not work on Government mandarins.Hence BNVSAP. I too am waiting for results of Tests as per BNVSAP for all new and current cars. Let's hold our judgement till then.

Thank you for writing in, Carma2017! Regarding Aston & Suzuki in the same breath, I think I did mention “…certainly not in the mass market sector, where the Swift is placed in India..” That should segregate the two!

While improved torsional rigidity is perfectly feasible (with small dia. Al tubes, a la the Maserati 'birdcage') and other light weight material - otherwise monocoque & space frame techniques would have been out of business long back! Unfortunately, torsional rigidity is just one factor in car safety, more to do with roll-over considerations than with other aspects. Structural strength for impact absorption is more central to the issue.

And this confusing of mild steel with high-tensile steel is something with which I’m a bit more familiar. In order to save money & increase profits (by saving GRT & increasing cargo dead wt.) using thinner gauge H.T. steel, shipbuilders went wholesale for this material a while ago. The ensuing flood of disasters where ships would develop transverse cracking & breaking-up in two resulted in the expected intense phase of navel-gazing. And this research brought out the information that this steel (with its comparable specific cost to mild steel) had some major short comings, including higher susceptibility to fatigue than mild steel. Mild steel came back into favour. Other special steels (with particular applications) still prove economically non-viable – the corollary with Aston & Audi in the car industry is thus unavoidable.

Undoubtedly a good deal of research is going on in material science – engineering plastics have been around for decades, as has ceramic coating for extreme pressure & temp. applications. Just like interesting research into IC engines has thrown up examples like axial piston engines (the Duke Engine) and the Wankel rotary earlier, among several other more exotic examples. But many of these breakthroughs are presently more interesting as coffee table discussion than as shop floor applications with comparable cost saving benefits.

About my background – I’m an ordinary retired marine engineer with roughly 4+ decades at sea. Of which 10+ years were as Ch. Engr. on Mitsui’s car carrier fleet & the last decade or so, on PSVs & AHTS vessels in the off-shore industry. I’m happier with seat-of-the pants engineering than marking time on a bum-warmer in an office!
How about you?

Regards,
Shashanka

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by shashanka

Thank you for writing in, Carma2017! Regarding Aston & Suzuki in the same breath, I think I did mention “…certainly not in the mass market sector, where the Swift is placed in India..” That should segregate the two!

If the extensive use of technical jargon was meant to impress your technical capabilities on me, I am surely impressed. However, high tensile Steel and ultra high tensile Steel (which may be out of favour in naval industry) via forming processes like hit forming etc are the flavor in Suto industry currently and will be for forseeable future. The fatigue factor is not very significant because Cars unlike ships are not subjected to extreme stresses and environment s. Additionally, the Service life of a car and it's cost are way lesser than a ship. However enhancement in usage of epoxy based sealers have also added further to fatigue life.
While I do not particularly like the tone of your question, I am a paltry PHD working in a company that is working on plastic engine body.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

If the extensive use of technical jargon was meant to impress your technical capabilities on me, I am surely impressed. However, high tensile Steel and ultra high tensile Steel (which may be out of favour in naval industry) via forming processes like hit forming etc are the flavor in Suto industry currently and will be for forseeable future. The fatigue factor is not very significant because Cars unlike ships are not subjected to extreme stresses and environment s. Additionally, the Service life of a car and it's cost are way lesser than a ship. However enhancement in usage of epoxy based sealers have also added further to fatigue life.
While I do not particularly like the tone of your question, I am a paltry PHD working in a company that is working on plastic engine body.

A Ph.D working on plastic engine body is impressive & indeed interesting - though a plastic engine is still some distance away from mass manufacturing processes of the Swift kind. Cars not being subjected to extreme stresses & environments? And here I was - having experienced both at first hand, so to speak - thinking that touring the country around our "highways" for the past couple of decades & having survived two ship-wrecks in cyclones - I would still choose the latter for the lesser of the two, as far as stressing of equipment was concerned. Because, unlike the battering which a car gets year-round on our roads & highways with their cratered pot-holes, rumblers & speed-breakers (as good a mechanism for cyclic stressing as any I can thing of!), a ship faces fair weather for the larger part of its life, with the weather-routing aids available today.

And believe me when I say that I too haven't a clue about the Suto industry and the hit forming process. Jargon & acronyms are not for impressing - they would just take longer to unravel & explain & therefore present an easier short-cut.

And if you have not liked the tone of my question - I apologise sincerely for it. It was meant more in camaraderie than otherwise. I saw that your location was Nagoya, which was almost a home port for us for many years.

[volkman10]

Suzuki launches the 2017 SWIFT in Australia,



Pricing:
Swift GL manual $15,990 ($16,990 drive-away)
Swift GL Navigator CVT auto $17,990 ($17,990 drive-away)
Swift GL Navigator safety pack CVT auto $18,990 ($19,190 drive-away)
Swift GLX Turbo six-speed auto $22,990 ($22,990 drive-away)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA0ljGUKx3o

[Kumar101]

Pictures of the new Swift taken in the UK.

Doesn't look too bad in real life except for back which looks like big Auty's botty

Still prefer the old styling glad I've bought the final iteration of last gen

[volkman10]

2017 Suzuki SWIFT will get additional 2 variants by this year end.

1. SWIFT HYBRID
2. SWIFT SPORT

Although the hybrid specification is also line up to the current Swift, it is a mild hybrid to the last, and this time it is a strong type hybrid like Prius or Fit Hybrid

LINK

[sumeethaldankar]

Why is Maruti launching a 2017 Swift close to 2018 in India? India is Suzuki's biggest and most important market. They should have launched the Swift here first rather than in Euro countries. The old Indian Swift is now long overdue for a change. Again with Maruti's long waiting periods for delivery would mean that the Swift won't be seen on Indian roads till Jun Jul 2018 next year.

[amvj]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Why is Maruti launching a 2017 Swift close to 2018 in India? India is Suzuki's biggest and most important market. They should have launched the Swift here first rather than in Euro countries. The old Indian Swift is now long overdue for a change. Again with Maruti's long waiting periods for delivery would mean that the Swift won't be seen on Indian roads till Jun Jul 2018 next year.

Previous gen Swift is selling quite well here and may be that is why Maruti is not bothered to launch the new car soon. I think in may this year Maruti sold 20K+ Swifts in India (hope the figures are reasonably accurate)

Also with this delay they have some bandwidth which they are utilizing for manufacturing Dzire which I think the waiting period is now extended to 4 months (or 6 months ?) I think.

[Carma2017]

The delay in selling Swift in India is because of the Indian Market's importance. I guess they want to straighten out the edges by selling first in Europe and Japan before shipping the improved and updated product in India. It always has been the Suzuki strategy with respect to their Global cars.

[MCR]

Autocar India have come out with an exclusive drive of the new Swift. It is supposed to be launched early next year. It's based on the same platform as Dzire and carries over most of the parts. The interior especially is very similar to Dzire and the only funky bit is the instrument cluster.

https://youtu.be/xqa1r-hCe9Q

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

The delay in selling Swift in India is because of the Indian Market's importance. I guess they want to straighten out the edges by selling first in Europe and Japan before shipping the improved and updated product in India. It always has been the Suzuki strategy with respect to their Global cars.

If that's the case, DZire would have been delayed as well.

They are just giving their best seller (which is DZire and not Swift these days) a head start.

Originally Posted by Kumar101

Doesn't look too bad in real life except for back which looks like big Auty's botty

It was looking like an Etios Liva to me earlier, but after reading this post, I can't see the Etios anymore.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If that's the case, DZire would have been delayed as well.

They are just giving their best seller (which is DZire and not Swift these days) a head start.



It was looking like an Etios Liva to me earlier, but after reading this post, I can't see the Etios anymore.

The Dzire is a made for India product and not a global product. Even the Ciaz in it's Alivio guise was first launched in China before India. Don't believe me, just check the launch sequence of the Europe models of Suzuki and their Indian counterparts.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

Don't believe me

Nopes I don't. This part to be exact-

Originally Posted by Carma2017

I guess they want to straighten out the edges by selling first in Europe and Japan before shipping the improved and updated product in India.

The company has always been giving the substandard version for the Indian market. Europe and Japan gets it first because our market gets the step motherly treatment.

Not to iron out niggles testing products in developed markets before launching in ours.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

It always has been the Suzuki strategy with respect to their Global cars.

If so, where did all the good engines and transmissions disappear post all that testing for fine tuning of the product for the Indian market? The Swift Sport perhaps? Ok, forget that - atleast the build quality or the safety features of the international versions that were 'tested' for India in all these developed countries. They get 5 star version tested and perfected in UK and launch unstable chassis cars here?

If you've seen comments from people who've visited the UK and all - the quality of the Swift sold there is way beyond what is offered here in India.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

The Dzire is a made for India product and not a global product.

And is nothing more than the new Swift, with a sedan'ish boot as earlier.

So the new Swift platform is already here. Just that they are giving a head start to the DZire instead of Swift, since they have old Swift + new (Swift) DZire + Baleno all bringing in the numbers.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If you've seen comments from people who've visited the UK and all - the quality of the Swift sold there is way beyond what is offered here in India.

Just adding an info which I got while interacting with a gentleman who was a part of the team responsible for Ertiga. When I asked him the same question, he replied with a counter question: The Swift Sports, with all the improved build quality, extra gizmos and safety tech(basically the same spec which is sold in UK), will cross the 12lac mark in India. Will the Swift sell in the same numbers if cost cutting isn't done and the car is sold for 1 lac more than what it usually retails at. This was in 2012. This is true for most mass volume players like Hyundai etc.

From my personal experience, only a few localised items are as good as the SGP Made in Japan parts.

A lot of engine options and trim levels get deleted for our Indian market, just because the cost will go high, and MSIL will loose its VFM tag. Our own MSIL manufactures Swift and Baleno with K14 engine for South African markets. They have the 6 Speed Auto in the S Cross in some markets, but we don't get them. Maruti is a miser, there is no better way of putting this. They calculate all their moves carefully before doing something. The reason why they play safely is because they don't want to introduce an engine, which they know will be a low seller. And then take headache of keeping inventory of spares for years to come.

Things however are changing for good, and some minds at MSIL are slowly warming up to the idea of powerful engine options. The 1.6 DDiS and 1.0 Boosterjet are a sign of good things to come. They are willing to take risks now. Hope 1.4L boosterjet also debuts in the S Cross in India. The chinese are already getting them.

Regards,
Shashi

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Nopes I don't. This part to be exact-



The company has always been giving the substandard version for the Indian market. Europe and Japan gets it first because our market gets the step motherly treatment.

Not to iron out niggles testing products in developed markets before launching in ours.



If so, where did all the good engines and transmissions disappear post all that testing for fine tuning of the product for the Indian market? The Swift Sport perhaps? Ok, forget that - atleast the build quality or the safety features of the international versions that were 'tested' for India in all these developed countries. They get 5 star version tested and perfected in UK and launch unstable chassis cars here?

If you've seen comments from people who've visited the UK and all - the quality of the Swift sold there is way beyond what is offered here in India.


And is nothing more than the new Swift, with a sedan'ish boot as earlier.

So the new Swift platform is already here. Just that they are giving a head start to the DZire instead of Swift, since they have old Swift + new (Swift) DZire + Baleno all bringing in the numbers.

I guess your sarcasm is for masking the dislike you have for Maruti. That's cool, I hate Volkswagen and think they are hugely over rated. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
What I wrote is from my experiences in working with Suzuki in Japan as a supplier.
You think the new Generation Dzire is the same as New Swift with a boot. Well, there is a reason the Swift Moniker was dropped from Dzire and it came and of the Hatchback.