[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Wow - its only in India probably that people consider weight reduction in a car to be a bad thing. So in your opinion Ambassdor is the safest car ?

The weight of the same car goes down by 120 kgs; what does that say?

I'll make an assumption here: you are part of the India that agrees that Maruti-Suzuki cars aren't the best built. Heck, the panels bend if you press them with your pinkie.

The weight reduction has come in through "super light weight body".

Are you still going to be comfortable knowing the new Swift is 120 kgs lighter?

Or to put it the way you did: it is only in India probably that people will be happy about a 5% improvement in FE

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

The weight of the same car goes down by 120 kgs; what does that say?

I'll make an assumption here: you are part of the India that agrees that Maruti-Suzuki cars aren't the best built. Heck, the panels bend if you press them with your pinkie.

The weight reduction has come in through "super light weight body".

Are you still going to be comfortable knowing the new Swift is 120 kgs lighter?

Or to put it the way you did: it is only in India probably that people will be happy about a 5% improvement in FE

A substantial part of total weight of car comes from the "cage", not the panels. While the panels getting pressed with a finger is correct for MS cars, it does not necessarily make a car less safe than one with low structural integrity and body panels that do not budge.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

The weight of the same car goes down by 120 kgs; what does that say?

I'll make an assumption here: you are part of the India that agrees that Maruti-Suzuki cars aren't the best built. Heck, the panels bend if you press them with your pinkie.

The weight reduction has come in through "super light weight body".

Are you still going to be comfortable knowing the new Swift is 120 kgs lighter?

Or to put it the way you did: it is only in India probably that people will be happy about a 5% improvement in FE

I suggest you read about new car launches globally over the past few years and see for yourself how many manufacturers talk about weight reduction/FE increase. You will get the answer you are looking for.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

A substantial part of total weight of car comes from the "cage", not the panels. While the panels getting pressed with a finger is correct for MS cars, it does not necessarily make a car less safe than one with low structural integrity and body panels that do not budge.

True. And the report points the difference to the light weight body, which I assume is the cage you are referring to?

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by libranof1987

True. And the report points the difference to the light weight body, which I assume is the cage you are referring to?

Maybe. I can't comment before any crash test is done. But just as a lightweight carbon fibre can be stronger than wrought iron, lighter structure can be sturdier than the heavier ones of old gen.

I would not be judgemental, rather would be optimistic.

[deerhunter]

You cannot compare two different generations and assume lower weight car is unsafe. Due to improvements in engineering, cars will always be lighter and stronger compared to previous generations.

Instead, compare the same generation car between different markets and that maybe a pointer. Even then weight is not a foolproof way of evaluating a car's structural strength.

For eg: Hondas sold in India has ACE structure, while the cars they sell abroad has ACE+G-CON. ACE is enough to protect the occupants of the car, while G-CON reduces damage to other cars too. (Link) In India, we dont have the concept of reducing damage to other cars, so we wont be getting G-CON in the near future. So a car with ACE+ G-CON will obviously be having a higher weight compared to the one with just ACE, doesnt mean the car we get here is unsafe.

[civic-sense]

Well we have seen how the 850kg Baleno crumbles during an accident. If the nexa-premium Baleno is such, i can imagine how the built-for-a-price Swift would fare. I'll stay away.

[saargoga]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Well we have seen how the 850kg Baleno crumbles during an accident. If the nexa-premium Baleno is such, i can imagine how the built-for-a-price Swift would fare. I'll stay away.

How do you suppose if another car from similar category will perform in the accident you saw?

baleno standard gets 3star NCAP with safety equipment it gets 4 star incidentally that is no less than for figo.

http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/suzuki/baleno/24498

Premium is a marketing buzzz word for most manufacturer built for a price? 5-8 lac on road is cheaper? clearly not many manufacturers are taking safety seriously and it is bad if the market leader is doing so. If loaded to the brim with all safety features then this same car will cost 2 lacs more and will score 5star then will it be premium enough?

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by saargoga

How do you suppose if another car from similar category will perform in the accident you saw?

baleno standard gets 3star NCAP with safety equipment it gets 4 star incidentally that is no less than for figo.

http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/suzuki/baleno/24498

Premium is a marketing buzzz word for most manufacturer built for a price? 5-8 lac on road is cheaper? clearly not many manufacturers are taking safety seriously and it is bad if the market leader is doing so. If loaded to the brim with all safety features then this same car will cost 2 lacs more and will score 5star then will it be premium enough?

Ford Ka gets 3 stars in EuroNCAP and Figo gets a 3 here. The Swift 2010 got 5 in Europe but scored a zero here. Imagine what the EuroNCAP three star Baleno would score here?

Am not going to trust a Maruti on safety. Period.

[saargoga]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Ford Ka gets 3 stars in EuroNCAP and Figo gets a 3 here. The Swift 2010 got 5 in Europe but scored a zero here. Imagine what the EuroNCAP three star Baleno would score here?
Am not going to trust a Maruti on safety. Period.

By here you mean the swift version made in India? I was not aware of that and upon searching got this result. So you have a point there . http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...p-safety-test/

I am aware lots of manufacturers do that case in point being Indian KWID vs exported KWID. In that sense I think all manufactures are guilty party even Honda which is still ahead in safety in sub 10lac bracket.

With safety ratings in place in coming years maruti will have no other way to hopefully upgrade that.

I am not in the market for new car but that 2017 swift looks pretty slick for what it is.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

The Swift 2010 got 5 in Europe but scored a zero here. Imagine what the EuroNCAP three star Baleno would score here?

Originally Posted by saargoga

By here you mean the swift version made in India? I was not aware of that and upon searching got this result. So you have a point there . http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...p-safety-test/

True 2010 India-specific swift got zero but what you are missing is that was the base model(Lxi/Ldi) which had no airbags,Zxi/Zdi was never tested AFAIK. Just FYI even the Polo got a big zero when base model(w/o any safety features) was tested during the same time, post which VW made airbags & ABS standard and the rating shot to 4.

Agreed the structural rigidity of Indian swift is not as good as the exported one but I just wanted to highlight the 'ZERO' rating point. In EURO NCAP any car without airbags and ABS is a default zero no matter how heavily its built.

All said and done I am really scared about the current direction of light weight Marutis. Baleno suits my requirement to the T, but the light build scares the hell out of me. Will await the BNCAP results before taking any decision.

Edit : Thanks Leonshashi for the update about the Z being tested.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

True 2010 India-specific swift got zero but what you are missing is that was the base model(Lxi/Ldi) which had no airbags,Zxi/Zdi was never tested AFAIK.

The Z variant was tested and it got a decent 3 star rating. However, there is difference in the way the structure reacted in case of the Indian swift, compared to the EU Swift which was tested in 2010.

Also, a 5 star rating in 2017 isn't the same as 5 star of 2007. The standards have evolved.

Regards,
Shashi

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Agreed the structural rigidity of Indian swift is not as good as the exported one

That is quite an understatement. This is what the report says:

The crash analysis showed the crash-test-dummies having sustained near-fatal injuries, more so in the case of the driver. The car's structural integrity was also deemed as unstable. And this is a key point, given the made-in-Europe Swift has a much sturdier structure and had achieved a 5-Star crash certification from Euro-NCAP.

Doesn't that scare you?

See this. This is the Indian Swift:


And this is the European Swift


Not scary enough?

[volkman10]

Going OT but in line with the previous posts.

Maruti Suzuki Swift speculated for a 2018 launch will need to undergo the mandated Bharat New Vehicle Safety Assessment Program (BNVSAP) which differs from the Euro NCAP test.
So let us await for the ratings when they are published rather than speculating.

Again we will for sure debate on the differential ratings achieved when both the Euro NCAP and BNVSAP results are published.

Unlike the Global NCAP, where vehicles are given a safety rating on a scale of 1 to 5 stars, the BNVSAP will have a safety rating in the range of 0.5 to 4.5 stars for vehicles that pass the frontal tests at a speed of 56 km/hr. The speed for side impacts will be set at 50 km/hr. Only the vehicles that pass the frontal crash tests at a speed of 64 km/hr will receive a 5 star rating.

The New Swift will be built only in 2 locations.
1. Japan ( Serves Japanese and European markets)
2. India

More pics of the 2017 Swift for Europe,



















Source(Pics): Motor1/Quattroruote

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

That is quite an understatement. This is what the report says:



Doesn't that scare you?



Not scary enough?

Absolutely scary and you would have understood if you noticed the next paragraph in my post. Re-quoting myself. :-)

Originally Posted by SoumenD

All said and done I am really scared about the current direction of light weight Marutis. Baleno suits my requirement to the T, but the light build scares the hell out of me. Will await the BNCAP results before taking any decision.

My current drive is a maruti from yesteryears when I barely had any knowledge on safety standards. But Next upgrade ought to be a relatively safe car because of which the wait continues for BNCAP to get into full effect.

End of