Originally Posted by nikunj_cal

Hmm thats funny , why would Maruti need a license from Fiat ? I means wasnt it a joint venture between Fiat and Suzuki who developed the magnificent engine in the first place ? If yes then both have them equal rights to use the technology in any way they desire, i.e with FGT/VGT.

This has been discussed to great lengths in this forum. Please do a search. There was no JV between FIAT and Suzuki for the multijet engine. Maruti manufactures that engine under license from FIAT.

[DieselFan]

It is one of the arm twisting attitude of FIAT to garner Market share. I am sure there will be mass exodus of customers to SX4 once the 1.6L Diesel version of SX4 is released (120 PS of pure power @ 4000 rpm and 320 NM of torque @ 2000). It will be a true VFM car with goodies of SX4 + Diesel engine that will win any petrols hands down in that segment + MASS factor.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

It is one of the arm twisting attitude of FIAT to garner Market share. I am sure there will be mass exodus of customers to SX4 once the 1.6L Diesel version of SX4 is released (120 PS of pure power @ 4000 rpm and 320 NM of torque @ 2000). It will be a true VFM car with goodies of SX4 + Diesel engine that will win any petrols hands down in that segment + MASS factor.

I doubt that. A diesel SX4 will affect ANHC and Verna sales more than Linea. Linea's selling proposition is not its engines, but its looks, ride and handling, for which there is no competition from SX4.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

I doubt that. A diesel SX4 will affect ANHC and Verna sales more than Linea. Linea's selling proposition is not its engines, but its looks, ride and handling, for which there is no competition from SX4.

Looks, that is subjective. I find Linea looks to be more for the Suave than the sporty and I like Sx4 better than Linea in looks (of course also because I own one)

Regarding handling, the Zxi is a very good handler. Very impressive in long rides and curves. Also check out the July issue of Autobild where they have tested 21 cars from A star to the BMW. SX4 fares better than Linea and the ANHC in handling in specific tests. It is only Fiesta that beats Sx4 in the under 10L category

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

It is one of the arm twisting attitude of FIAT to garner Market share.

Fiat has spend millions developing these engines. Forgive them if they don't want to give their best engines to cars that will compete with their own. Maruthi has no excuse for not realizing the potential and having their own diesel engine.

Besides Maruthi doesn't have to rely on a car manufacturer for diesel engines. There are engine makes like VM Moturi that develop the diesels for ford, chevy, etc. Even the die hard petrol heads at Honda decided a few years back that they need diesels in the European market and they have a sweet 2.2 and a 3.0 V6.

[DieselFan]

I agree fiat has spent millions and need to reap the benefits of the same. They are licensing this engine with the same motive. Fiat provided 1.3L engine to Maruti to test the indian waters for their engine. Now that they know the engine is a hit here they do not want to release any other engine to Maruti before they launch the same on their car. Hence IMO this is too short sightedness of FIAT and nothing else.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Hence IMO this is too short sightedness of FIAT and nothing else.

So,it's Fiat's fault that Maruthi cannot sell other diesel cars? How come Chevy, Ford, and Hyundai are not whining about it? Maruthi and Suzuki is soley to blame for not having the foresight to 1) either develop their own diesel engine 2) tie up with an diesel engine maker like VM Motori or Detroit Diesel to develop an engine. If they depend on a competitor then they have to be prepared to be at a disadvantage.

Originally Posted by DieselFan

I agree fiat has spent millions and need to reap the benefits of the same. They are licensing this engine with the same motive. Fiat provided 1.3L engine to Maruti to test the indian waters for their engine. Now that they know the engine is a hit here they do not want to release any other engine to Maruti before they launch the same on their car. Hence IMO this is too short sightedness of FIAT and nothing else.

Why blame FIAT here? Why don't they shop somewhere else? After all, FIAT is not the only company that makes diesel engines? And did you mean to say that FIAT let Maruti 'test' the engine here before launching its own? Very funny, though.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

Why blame FIAT here? Why don't they shop somewhere else? After all, FIAT is not the only company that makes diesel engines? And did you mean to say that FIAT let Maruti 'test' the engine here before launching its own? Very funny, though.

There is lot more to manufacturing a diesel car than just plonking in an engine. All the other components (Transmission, suspension etc.) should be designed in such a way to take the engine. It takes a huge leadtime and cost to change the engine altogether.

Yes Maruti Swift was used as a Guinea pig for MJD engine in India. If not then why didn't Fiat launch Palio MJD (If not punto) before Swift?

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Maruthi and Suzuki is soley to blame for not having the foresight to 1) either develop their own diesel engine 2) tie up with an diesel engine maker like VM Motori or Detroit Diesel to develop an engine. If they depend on a competitor then they have to be prepared to be at a disadvantage.

You may term Maruti Suzuki of not having a back up plan but you and I do not know what was the agreement between Suzuki/GM/FIAT before the R&D and production of MJD engines. Still I do not think Maruti alone should be made the scapegoat here. They have invested over 2500 crores in Manesar plant which was supposed to produce all DDIS engines required by maruti 1.3L, 1.6L and 1.9L. Current capacity is 1L and can be expanded to 3L engines per year. So Maruti investing in a new engine technology will push it by at least 3 years and 2500 crores in costs and this Maruti is trying to avoid (IMO).

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Yes Maruti Swift was used as a Guinea pig for MJD engine in India. If not then why didn't Fiat launch Palio MJD (If not punto) before Swift?

Man, you should be really ungrateful to say that (assuming you are speaking for Maruti).

FIAT initially chose to plonk the 1.9 diesel instead of the MJD. Going by your logic, did FIAT test each of its deisel engines, in other cars before launching them in their own cars? The 1.7L deisel engine of the UNO, the 1.9L of the Palio?

[neotraveller]

Fiat was not ready to launch and support cars in India at that time.
It made business sense for Fiat to sell engines to whoever was ready to pay.
It made business sense to Maruti to buy engines instead of investing money on developing their own diesel engine.

Now the onus is on maruti/suzuki to develop their own diesel engine.
I don't know why you are asking the opposite (Fiat supplying Maruti with engines for lifelong)!

Originally Posted by DieselFan

There is lot more to manufacturing a diesel car than just plonking in an engine. All the other components (Transmission, suspension etc.) should be designed in such a way to take the engine. It takes a huge leadtime and cost to change the engine altogether.

Yes Maruti Swift was used as a Guinea pig for MJD engine in India. If not then why didn't Fiat launch Palio MJD (If not punto) before Swift?

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by neotraveller

Now the onus is on maruti/suzuki to develop their own diesel engine.
I don't know why you are asking the opposite (Fiat supplying Maruti with engines for lifelong)!

Fiat is not supplying engine but has licensed the technology to Maruti to manufacture the engine themselves. The technology was for 1.3L, 1.6L and 1.9L engines. only 1.3L technology has been transferred so far. Fiat is delaying transfer of 1.6L technology to Maruti and hence my Rant. Yes Maruti has not had a backup plan which I am sure it is repenting now(Detailed in my earlier post).

Originally Posted by DieselFan

They have invested over 2500 crores in Manesar plant which was supposed to produce all DDIS engines required by maruti 1.3L, 1.6L and 1.9L.

So, I bought a cow seeing the grass in the neighbour's land. Good.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

only 1.3L technology has been transferred so far. Fiat is delaying transfer of 1.6L technology to Maruti and hence my Rant.

Do you have the source to confirm this sweeping statement? A copy of the deal agreement may be?