[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by blacksport

I don't think this thread has such a narrow scope. If yes, mods need to pitch in and clarify. I see these kind of discussions happening in every "test drive" thread.

Buddy,

I just gave my opinion and NOT an order to stop the discussion. You all are free to do what you like and discuss on what is currently happening but please don't take my post personally that's all I request. Thanks.

Anurag.

[limited-edition]

Originally Posted by 97_Octane

At the risk of sounding like a noob, one quick question:

For the variants with Push-button start, if at all the button fails, how do you start the car?

Push button may fail due to 2 reasons
#1: Battery is dead
#2: Button is faulty

In both the cases we have to follow the same procedure as in Keyed cars.

#1: Try Jump starting the car
#2: Call Service guys (In keyed cars, we do this when key system fails)

Basically we make the same move, it doesn't matter if its a key or a button.

[97_Octane]

Originally Posted by limited-edition

Push button may fail due to 2 reasons
#1: Battery is dead
#2: Button is faulty

In both the cases we have to follow the same procedure as in Keyed cars.

#1: Try Jump starting the car
#2: Call Service guys (In keyed cars, we do this when key system fails)

Basically we make the same move, it doesn't matter if its a key or a button.

Thanks for the reply!
But I still have a doubt. Suppose the battery is dead. For us to jump-start the car through jumper cables, we would still have to press the button right?
Unless you mean jump starting it by pushing it, which is one option

[dsunn]

Moderator Note: Post edited. Rude messages have absolutely NO PLACE on Team-BHP. Keep it calm, keep it cool, keep it polite. Attack the issue, not the person.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I don't buy that remark cause it's not just europeans. How about VW spending millions on 1.8TSI and 1.4TSI twin charger? Why did they spend millions on developing a petrol engine then?

When exactly is the point by saying it is not their Forte? Isn't saying Maruti's forte is not diesel engines the same thing?

So what if it's not their forte. Diesel engines are co developed across manufacturers. You said PSA (Ford, Peugeot Citroen) yourself, GM used to get it from VM Motori and so did Hyundai at one point.

The 1.4 and 1.5TDCI engine is made in India, has superb driveavility with low turbo lag and gives excellent FE. And it is reliable. What more does anyone need? Why should I care that Ford makes this engine along with Citroen and Peugeot as long as it gets the job done.

Originally Posted by vb-san

I hope potential buyers don't take this General note seriously.

The American Ford is the biggest selling car brand in the UK, which is predominantly a diesel market. And most of the models sold in Europe and Asia and derived/developed in Europe. I don't think that make it any less competent (infact its a positive in my opinion). And is there something really wrong in developing an engine along with Peugeot-Citroen? With this logic, nobody should buy a diesel car from say Nissan or Suzuki, because its outsourced from Italian or French partners respectively.

I clearly wrote that in general, American carmakers have less experience and expertise than their European counterparts when it comes to Diesel engine. The Americans themselves acknowledge the fact that European diesel engines have better fuel efficiency and are more refined, simply because their isn't a market for diesel cars in US and hence their R&D focus is more inclined towards petrol engines. This is evident from the fact that both GM and Ford now develop most of their diesel engines through European JVs and R&D centers.

My comment that "Diesel engine is not Ford's forte" was clearly relative to Ford's Petrol engines. Did I write Ford's diesel cars are not good enough? Did I write Ford "does not care enough for diesel"? Did I write people should abstain from buying Ford's diesel cars? Did I write that since Ford "outsources" diesel engines, its diesel cars are inferior?

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Well then that's sad to see such gullible buyers. And what exactly is their definition of SUV? Some people think that a Fortuner 4X2 is an SUV as well or a Duster is a SUV.

Let me put it this way... what is the difference between a SUV and a crossover?

Isn't Ford EcoSport technically a crossover?

A) It has uni-body construction
B) It is based on Ford Fiesta platform
C) There is no 4WD option in any variant
D) *Some* might argue that its engine is under-powered


Ford EcoSport being marketed as an "urban SUV" is nothing but a gimmick.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by dsunn

Let me put it this way... what is the difference between a SUV and a crossover?

Isn't Ford EcoSport technically a crossover? It has uni-body construction, it is based on Ford Fiesta platform, there is no 4WD option in any variant and its engine is just shy of being tagged as under-powered.

Ford EcoSport being marketed as an "urban SUV" is nothing but a gimmick.

Even though you may not agree with Wikipedia but a Compact SUV or Mini SUV is the same as a crossover. The words are used interchangeably.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_utility_vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_sport_utility_vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact...tility_vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_(automobile)

So there is no gimmick from Ford or Honda CR-V.

My comment that "Diesel engine is not Ford's forte" was clearly relative to Ford's Petrol engines. Did I write Ford's diesel cars are not good enough? Did I write Ford "does not care enough for diesel"? Did I write people should abstain from buying Ford's diesel cars? Did I write that since Ford "outsources" diesel engines, its diesel cars are inferior?

Ok sorry about that. So that comment was not supposed to mean anything and did not have anything useful to add? I think the question is then why make the comment in first place? (Not in an offensive way at all)

Diesel engines are not Ford's forte but it doesn't mean they don't care about diesels or you shouldn't buy Ford Diesel cars or it's diesel cars are inferior. Just that they are not Ford's forte.

[dsunn]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Even though you may not agree with Wikipedia but a Compact SUV or Mini SUV is the same as a crossover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_utility_vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_sport_utility_vehicle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact...tility_vehicle

So there is no gimmick from Ford or Honda CR-V.

Yup, I don't take Wikipedia as a legitimate source.

http://www.autoweek.com/car-shopping...fference-.html

But you are right. As the above article states, the distinction between SUV and Crossover is blurry. IMO, the lack of clear distinction is a grand marketing scheme by automakers to confuse and delude "gullible" customers.

Ok sorry about that. So that comment was not supposed to mean anything and did not have anything useful to add? I think the question is then why make the comment in first place? (Not in an offensive way at all)

Well, it was surely useful enough for some 'coz they ended up making a mountain out of a molehill .

Diesel engines are not Ford's forte but it doesn't mean they don't care about diesels or you shouldn't buy Ford Diesel cars or it's diesel cars are inferior. Just that they are not Ford's forte.

Quoting my previous comment again --

My comment that "Diesel engine is not Ford's forte" was clearly relative to Ford's Petrol engines.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by dsunn

Yup, I don't take Wikipedia as a legitimate source.

http://www.autoweek.com/car-shopping...fference-.html

But you are right. As the above article states, the distinction between SUV and Crossover is blurry. IMO, the lack of clear distinction is a grand marketing scheme by automakers to confuse and delude "gullible" customers.

That's the problem. The segment is getting extremely blurry cause people no longer want SUV's; the buyer wants crossover's which give best of both worlds. You get some of the advantages of SUV and some advantages of a sedan/hatch. But they also want to say they drive a SUV. The manufacturers are just riding this phenomenon.

A true and proper SUV is very focussed and a majority of buyers don't even use anywhere near the full potential.

Buyers wanted something in between and that's exactly what Ford Ecosport, Renault Duster, Mahindra XUV, Honda CR-V, Skoda Yeti, Hyundai Santa Fe are cashing in on.

Well, it was surely useful enough for some 'coz they ended up making a mountain out of a molehill .

LOL. It did stir up a controversy cause it didn't make sense. Ford just chose to tie up with Citroen and Peugeot to develop diesel engines. Same way Maruti tied up with Fiat, Toyota tied up with BMW, Mitsubishi tied up with VW. And this has no impact to the end product.

[dsunn]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

That's the problem. The segment is getting extremely blurry cause people no longer want SUV's; the buyer wants crossover's which give best of both worlds. You get some of the advantages of SUV and some advantages of a sedan/hatch. But they also want to say they drive a SUV. The manufacturers are just riding this phenomenon.

A true and proper SUV is very focussed and a majority of buyers don't even use anywhere near the full potential.

Buyers wanted something in between and that's exactly what Ford Ecosport, Renault Duster, Mahindra XUV, Honda CR-V, Skoda Yeti, Hyundai Santa Fe are cashing in on.

Couldn't agree more... and that's why I don't blame the "gullible" customers entirely.

And as I have written before, in my eyes EcoSport is nothing but a premium hatch-back with 200mm ground-clearance, excellent driving position, good gadgets and a SUVish rear-mounted spare wheel. Now, that's surely not a bad thing.

LOL. It did stir up a controversy cause it didn't make sense. Ford just chose to tie up with Citroen and Peugeot to develop diesel engines. Same way Maruti tied up with Fiat, Toyota tied up with BMW, Mitsubishi tied up with VW. And this has no impact to the end product.

My simple (and un-useful) point was that Ford tends to focus more on Petrol engines compared to Diesel ones simply because it has a larger market for petrol cars.

In my head, when I think of Diesel cars... European automakers come to mind, and when I think of Petrol cars... the Japs and Americans come to mind. But that's just my prejudice. It does not mean that Ford diesel cars are generally inferior and I never intended to imply that.

I hope that puts the controversy to rest.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by 97_Octane

At the risk of sounding like a noob, one quick question:

For the variants with Push-button start, if at all the button fails, how do you start the car?

You use the starting handle. You'll find it under the driver's seat

Please excuse the joke, but back in the day when cars came with starting handles as a backup, they also had buttons (pull buttons, if I remember correctly) to start the engine, which is why press-button start has never particularly impressed me as selling point. Except that (as someone would remind me) back in that day, one needed the key to turn on the ignition, which is quite different to keyless entry/engine start.

Originally Posted by 97_Octane

Thanks for the reply!
But I still have a doubt. Suppose the battery is dead. For us to jump-start the car through jumper cables, we would still have to press the button right?
Unless you mean jump starting it by pushing it, which is one option

Seriously, though... you turn a key, or you press a button. This is not a direct switching, but a series of relays will be involved. Failure is perfectly possible, it happens. Just because a key feels more "manual" does not mean that it actually is: I'm thinking that what is changed here is the presentation more than the underlying system.

I may be wrong: increased complexity (keyless sensing etc) may lead to increased risk of failure. I'm speaking as if both are of equal reliability. But either way, a fault is a fault ...and they no longer give us a starting handle.

[97_Octane]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

You use the starting handle. You'll find it under the driver's seat

Hahaha! Nice sense of humor sir

The reason why I asked this is because my cousin recently got a Grand i10 Sportz which comes with the push button start. When I went for a drive, I noticed that the key fob had a retractable key. I asked him what it was for. He said the guys at Hyundai said that it was for starting the car in emergencies when the button malfunctions. We both, however, didn't find any slot for inserting the key; but we did come to the conclusion that it must be for opening the doors manually from the passenger side door which has the key slot. (So much for the knowledge the dealership people have about the products they're selling lol).

Was wondering about this casually, since my Ecosport is due for delivery this weekend

[limited-edition]

Originally Posted by 97_Octane

Hahaha! Nice sense of humor sir

The reason why I asked this is because my cousin recently got a Grand i10 Sportz which comes with the push button start. ..

Was wondering about this casually, since my Ecosport is due for delivery this weekend

Key is used to open the door, there is no key slot. If the remote's battery is dead, you can use the remote to press the start button and that will start the car, but not the other way around. If the button is faulty, then get service guys :-)

[Rajiv0909]

Originally Posted by dsunn

Stop putting words in my mouth!


[b]Isn't Ford EcoSport technically a crossover?

C) There is no 4WD option in any variant

without contesting any of the observations, wanted to share that Ecosport does have a 4WD variant in Brazil

http://www.ford.com.br/suvs-e-crosso...acoes/tecnicas

see it in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyPlBqg79AA

I guess it is Ford's interpretation of Indian market that they chose not to offer this variant for us. Who knows! they may look at offering that variant from 2015 on

[wilful]

Originally Posted by Rajiv0909

without contesting any of the observations, wanted to share that Ecosport does have a 4WD variant in Brazil
I guess it is Ford's interpretation of Indian market that they chose not to offer this variant for us. Who knows! they may look at offering that variant from 2015 on

Pity they don't have it yet in India. A four wheel version at maybe a lac more (I understand a 4WD will push prices up between $1000 and $1500) would have made it a killer option!
On the other hand though - Ford would probably feel differently. They haven't been able to come to terms with the explosive demand for the Ecosport in its present avatar let alone bringing the 4WD and earning the abuse of a long queue of additional customers.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by 97_Octane

Hahaha! Nice sense of humor sir

The reason why I asked this is because my cousin recently got a Grand i10 Sportz which comes with the push button start. When I went for a drive, I noticed that the key fob had a retractable key. I asked him what it was for. He said the guys at Hyundai said that it was for starting the car in emergencies when the button malfunctions. We both, however, didn't find any slot for inserting the key; ... ...

What salesmen say is far funnier than any joke I can make up! Why-oh-why must the major qualification for a selling job be the ability to open mouth and make noise?

remote fobs fail, batteries go flat, etc. One needs the key to get into the car. If that happens, does the starter button still work?


~

[97_Octane]

Originally Posted by limited-edition

If the remote's battery is dead, you can use the remote to press the start button and that will start the car, but not the other way around.

Apologies, couldn't understand this. If the remote's battery is dead, we open the doors manually and start the car normally right? Why should we press the start button with the remote? Is it for some sort of disarming?

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

What salesmen say is far funnier than any joke I can make up! Why-oh-why must the major qualification for a selling job be the ability to open mouth and make noise?

remote fobs fail, batteries go flat, etc. One needs the key to get into the car. If that happens, does the starter button still work?


~

Most of the these salespersons have no idea what they're saying. Ask them a few technical questions and the blokes are dumbfounded.

I'm not sure how the system tackles this problem. Maybe the remote acts as a disarming device. Such a simple query is eating my head

Perhaps one of the owners on the forum can shed some light on this.