[sandygordon]

Originally Posted by ampere

The point remains, what is it that you need from your next car? And does a considered product satisfy that aspect?

I need a more powerful and safe car.
Should be reasonably well equipped and comfortable for a six footer.
Should drive well.

The following shortcomings were noted in the cars i considered / test drove

1. Duster - Front seat ergonomics for a six footer, poor trim
2. Creta - Disconnected feel. Too high seating position, (but loved the power)
3. S Cross Alpha DDIS 320 - Price, Price, Price, Gear ratios, lag
4. S Cross Alpha DDIS 220 - Power, Same 1.3 MJD with VGT
5. Vento - Long in the tooth, DSG not my cup of tea

Loved the S Cross handling and steering (vague center feel is not a deterrent). I can live with the looks. (Looks are subjective and S cross does not look that good, but who cares, as long as you are in the driver's seat)

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by adimicra

But how many cars are advertised so much as 'premium' vehicle? Maruti even opened separate dealerships to deal with their 'premium' vehicle.

What I am saying is that there is nothing premium about the engine and gearbox for the 1.3 and they priced the 1.6 way too higher. The main thing premium about the S-cross was the 1.6 engine. The 1.3 engine doesn't suit a premium vehicle. It's too mundane and average! The 1.6 at a lower price or at the same price with more safety kit and features would be worth the 'premium' tag!

Ideally Maruti tried to get the Nexa showrooms in place for the Ciaz as well. Unfortunately I think they didn't get the logistics in place and ended up having to go through the usual route.

Also remember the engine might not be premium but Mercedes sells an A-class with a 1.6L engine and a 115PS which is very mediocre. Internationally they even have the 1.5L dCi from Renault in the A and B class!! Jaguar uses a 2.0L Ford EcoBoost engine in their flagship XJ. Toyota sells a 20L Corolla with a 1.4L engine 88PS engine. Honda sells the CR-V internationally with a 1.6L i-DTEC engine. This engine is actually the foundation for the 1.5L in the City, JAzz, Amaze, Mobilio.

Overall they seem to have got the premium tag more or less correct. It's a start and will make way for more cars through Nexa.

I won't be surprised to see the Ciaz Hybrid SHVS being sold through Nexa as well.

The 1.6L pricing is definitely premium and needs some serious thinking for anyone considering it.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

I need a more powerful and safe car.
Should be reasonably well equipped and comfortable for a six footer.
Should drive well.

Why not look for something in the pre owned car market? You can find good 3 series/A4's for about 12-13 Lakhs. That would suffice your craving for power and would be safe as well. Can't comment on reliability though.

[coolboy007]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

5. Vento - Long in the tooth, DSG not my cup of tea

Why not have a long test drive Vento/Rapid? If DSG is not your cup of tea, then you can buy the manual transmission. You are getting manual in all your shortlisted cars so AT does not seem a requirement for you.
It has got excellent build, good quality interiors, excellent power/torque figures, second best ride/handling in C segment (behind Fiesta/Linea, i own all 3 including Vento so telling from experience), Volkswagen has a genuine premium image, good leg room at back with 460 litres of boot space.

The injector gremlins of old 1.6 TDi have been solved with the new 1.5 TDi, the Volkswagen support is not great and resale may not be as good as S Cross (if it is a success) but you will get an excellent family car in the form of Vento, you can also have fun with the 250 NM (280NM on wheels).

[ampere]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

4. S Cross Alpha DDIS 220 - Power, Same 1.3 MJD with VGT

I think this is the point. Why do you say power is a problem here?


Let me illustrate my case:

I own a Duster 85, and am a sedate driver who does not do high speeds on the highways. My style of driving is a consistent 100 and not more. If I were to look for a change, and if S-Cross was on my radar, what should I do? I surely can buy the 1.6 (Budget no issues). But do I need a 1.6? Surely not. Even on a highway, I wont be using even 30-40% of what the 1.6 is.

In other words, there are two ways to look at how you feel comfortable on the roads. Firstly, your apprehension of speed and secondly the vehicle's apprehension of speed. A Jetta or S-Cross 1.6 may handle higher speeds better and hence you may be OK with higher cruising speeds. Because in this case its the vehicle which makes you feel safe at those speeds.

But if you are like me, who has one's own idea of a safe cruising limit, then irrespective of what the vehicle lets you feel; you will stick to your driving style. So in that case, you wont be utilising the better specced product at all.

To summarise, whether I look at a 1.6 or a 1.3, my perception of a cruising speed wont change. So I am actually better off with the 1.3 than the 1.6 (Isn't it?).

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

I need a more powerful and safe car.
Should be reasonably well equipped and comfortable for a six footer.
Should drive well.

3. S Cross Alpha DDIS 320 - Price, Price, Price, Gear ratios, lag
4. S Cross Alpha DDIS 220 - Power, Same 1.3 MJD with VGT

Hey first get what are your requirements clear. I have seen your flowcharts and piecharts.

Sit down coolly and think first.

I own a 2013 Maruti Swift ZDi and I'm clear with what I need in my next car. It is power and space with no compromise on safety equipment as it will be the main highway cruiser. For city chores I have the Alto K10 AMT.

I know the SCross DDiS 320 costs 16L OTR Hyderabad but I'm okay with it and buy the time I'm in the market there will be discounts on it too. With Ertiga ZDi at home, I know how the DDiS 200 behave and I'm never buying that engine again in a bigger car.

I'll suggest, save up more, wait for some time, but the DDiS 320.

[sunsetorange]

Originally Posted by coolboy007

Why not have a long test drive Vento/Rapid? If DSG is not your cup of tea, then you can buy the manual transmission. You are getting manual in all your shortlisted cars so AT does not seem a requirement for you.
It has got excellent build, good quality interiors, excellent power/torque figures, second best ride/handling in C segment (behind Fiesta/Linea, i own all 3 including Vento so telling from experience), Volkswagen has a genuine premium image, good leg room at back with 460 litres of boot space.

The injector gremlins of old 1.6 TDi have been solved with the new 1.5 TDi, the Volkswagen support is not great and resale may not be as good as S Cross (if it is a success) but you will get an excellent family car in the form of Vento, you can also have fun with the 250 NM (280NM on wheels).

+1 to that! The Vento TDI has been a part of my family since 2013 and apart from the engine noise and the heavy clutch pedal, there has never been a feature where it was found wanting. Good mileage in the city and amazing mileage on the tollways, reasonable ground clearance and sorted ride; but what makes me grin from ear to ear is the addictive relentless torque! It hits you like a wave and all you have to do is just ride the crest and there isn"t a car in its class that can match it (apart from its twin that is).

In fact when the S cross came out I was seriously considering replacing my Figo with it and was wondering whether to go for the 320 or the 200. While in the quandry, before the prices were out, we went to a get-together in bandipur and took the Vento. The road from Trichy is a mix of tollways and good 2 lane highways. The Vento was more than adequate for all the roads we came across. The final 2 km to the resort (Serai) was just a gravel path , but no issues there too.
By the time we came back home, the Vento had the solution to my queries. The power and torque in the Vento was more than adequate for my needs on all kinds of roads, and more than what I actually used. The 320 would be wasted in my garage and also on Indian roads. 200 it is(thanks to my Vento)!

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

5. Vento - Long in the tooth, DSG not my cup of tea

Loved the S Cross handling and steering (vague center feel is not a deterrent). I can live with the looks. (Looks are subjective and S cross does not look that good, but who cares, as long as you are in the driver's seat)

Hi,

DSG is not your cup of tea. Why?
Is it reliability or is it because you like manual transmissions better?

If it is only the latter, doesn't the DSG in Vento have triptronic mode?

I believe its the best of both worlds combining ease of automatic with the joy of manual.

I agree with you though that Vento is a bit long in the tooth. But that transmission is a gem.

If I was in your stead, I will be saving up for DDIS320. There ought to be some discounts on it very soon. It will be a proper upgrade from your Dzire (IMO). I believe its easy to get used to the turbo lag once you are familiar with the engine characteristics.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by VMehta

Why not wait for the YRA ?
Also, I am expecting it to have a similar level of interiors that as the S-Cross does. It will be placed just above Swift. So, I guess it will definitely count as an upgrade!

YRA will most likely be in the <4 m segment and can't expect the interior space as seen in the S Cross.
Coming to engines, the YRA too will get the 1.3MJD so it will be not be an upgrade.

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by ampere

To summarise, whether I look a 1.6 or a 1.3, my perception of a cruising speed wont change. So I am actually better off with the 1.3 than the 1.6 (Isn't it?).

Hey ampere I think your view is just spot on and I for one couldn't agree more with it.

But IMO, if someone asked me why I bought a GT TDi a year back, when at a tiny bit stretch could have got me the Verna 1.6 CRDI. Well its simple:

- Fluidic Verna 1.6 CRDI is quick and on paper has atleast 20 BHP more than GT, but GT makes you feel that power.

- Verna takes almost the same time to 100 as a GT TDi, but I just loved the way GT gets me there.

- I don't do high speeds regularly, but regularly I drive on some good roads and the GT made me get back there again and again.

I am not arguing with the fact that 1.6 DDIS is a worthy buy, but if I got the moolah that can match my passion for driving, I would put my money on the Fun factor.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

I am not arguing with the fact that 1.6 DDIS is a worthy buy, but if I got the moolah that can match my passion for driving, I would put my money on the Fun factor.

+1 to that . (Especially the fact, that you buy something which suits your driving). Even I am not arguing about pricing of the 1.6. Its just about what one wants to buy. Even I would put that money on the 1.6 in such a case as you described. But then, the other part which I did not add is that if one does lots of city driving, the 1.3 vs 1.6 will come up again. 1.3 seems to be better suited to city than 1.6. But of course a learning curve should be able to take care of that.

[pannags]

Originally Posted by ampere

My style of driving is a consistent 100 and not more. If I were to look for a change, and if S-Cross was on my radar, what should I do? I surely can buy the 1.6 (Budget no issues). But do I need a 1.6? Surely not. Even on a highway, I wont be using even 30-40% of what the 1.6 is.
To summarise, whether I look at a 1.6 or a 1.3, my perception of a cruising speed wont change. So I am actually better off with the 1.3 than the 1.6 (Isn't it?).

Originally Posted by ampere

+1 to that . (Especially the fact, that you buy something which suits your driving). Even I am not arguing about pricing of the 1.6. Its just about what one wants to buy. Even I would put that money on the 1.6 in such a case as you described. But then, the other part which I did not add is that if one does lots of city driving, the 1.3 vs 1.6 will come up again. 1.3 seems to be better suited to city than 1.6. But of course a learning curve should be able to take care of that.

Exactly how my train of thoughts go.

BTW, I have never owned any avatar of the 1.3 MJD, but have driven "similarly" specced diesels (Ford's 1.5 TDi and Honda's 1.5 iDtec) on week-long trips, and in comparison, the DDiS 200 did not let me down at all.

Perhaps, its the torque factor as compared to my Esteem (110@4500) that makes me happy driving these diesel mills.

One other thing is the numbers game that plays on the mind (1.3/90/200 vs 1.5/90/220 vs etc.). While its important to know the capabilities (specifications) of a car, the correlation to performance may not always be direct. Then again, performance may mean completely different things to different people

OT: I'm still torn between the Rapid DSG for the ease of driving an AT and the S-Cross for everything else

[NPV]

Originally Posted by pannags

OT: I'm still torn between the Rapid DSG for the ease of driving an AT and the S-Cross for everything else

While the Rapid has good ride and handling, feels planted, has better quality interiors, etc, the GC is still suspect. We have a Rapid in the family and just yesterday with 4 adults and a child, it seemed to be scraping every single hump on the way

In contrast, never happened in my Dzire

[pannags]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The Premium Silver looks lovely indeed. I liked that best.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Have not personally seen that shade on the S-Cross, but if it is the same Premium Silver as offered on the Kizashi, I can tell you that yes, while it looks absolutely smashing with tasteful amounts of contrast, shine and metallic flakes, the paint is in no way easy to maintain.

Infact this remains my biggest grouse with my car (though I would still choose the same colour if given another chance )

Originally Posted by a4anurag

All this while the Silver never featured in my options list other than Blue and Brown but the day I saw the Silver in flesh @ NEXA showroom, the blue was thrown off my list of colour choices for the S-Cross.

Originally Posted by Eddy

In my eyes, blue is the worst colour on S-Cross followed by brown. Silver indeed looks best.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The prmium silver followed by Granite grey look the best. The silver one looks way too good. It's a much darker silver than regular silver we see and that really stands out.

Can't agree more! In fact, when we checked out cars post the first TD, we unanimously voted for the silver followed by the grey and blue. The silver does look stunning indeed!

[hybridpetrol]

Originally Posted by pannags

With all due respect and looks being subjective, why don't we hear the same kind of comments for say, the Merc GLA200?! We have no qualms when a "premium" European car maker creates segments in the market to offer mini-SUVs, Crossovers (and what not!).

We don't hear such statements for Luxury car manufacturers, because their hatchbacks rarely sell in India! I mean, how many Merc A-Class or BMW 1-series or Volvo S40 are running in India, in comparision with their sedan or SUV counterparts?
Maruti Suzuki's cars, if they are named as Crossovers, premium cars etc, they are naturally seen as a progression from their hatchbacks, because we have seen so many of them on our roads and we tend to compare their new breed with the existing lot to make sure that the extra lakhs we put in are really worth it! I mentioned to ignore the "crossover" term, just on this premise, for the sake of comparison.
A premium customer, still expects either VFM for his product or incomparable luxury in his car to ditch the VFM tag and go for it anyway. Just in the name of premiumness, he cannot just drink coffee in chinaware in Nexa showroom (as opposed to paper cups in MS regular showrooms) and buy similar looking stuff!
While I am saying all this, I still say that S-Cross 1.3 Zeta petrol seems a VFM at 11.5 lakhs OTR! (Given that Swift Zxi with less features, less dimesions, smaller engine, evident cost cutting, and not so confident inspiring body frame, is about 7 lakhs OTR).