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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:08   #3871
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post

Very good comparo video, but compared to what, the comparing standard is very low. IF you want to see ride quality there are lot of videos showing plymoths, citreons , old mercs .
Unfortunately, those cars with magic carpet ride quality are not mass market these days (or in those days, in India). Hence, the comparison can be made with the the competitors in the same price range.
If we agree that the ride quality is better than direct competitors ( like XUV, Crysta) or cross segment competitors (Creta, Compass), then that can be considered as the segment leader in ride quality.

Most of the videos out in the public internet point to the 'segment' leading ride quality.

Just curious - Is there any scientific way to measure ride quality ? Like some 'units' of measurement.

Last edited by prasanna_indaje : 22nd March 2018 at 15:10.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:11   #3872
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

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Originally Posted by imidnightmare View Post

As for handling, I find it handles far more like a sedan than any vehicle this large. At times my wife (before she got used to it) actually tried reminding me not to think of it like a sedan, the way I was driving on the inter-city highways.
This I feel is far from reality. Hexa has enough body roll and handling is no where close to sedans. There is significant body roll on cornering. It is probably better than Scorpio/Safari but not benchmark w.r.to handling among competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post

Very good comparo video, but compared to what, the comparing standard is very low. IF you want to see ride quality there are lot of videos showing plymoths, citreons , old mercs .

A+ ride quality on all types of roads goes to only one car that is the Mercedes w140 , any thing better would be the Cadillacs of the 60s and 70s, but they wallow alot unlike the Merc and dont handle.

Magic carpet ride is again W140, obviously cannot be compared because of the price, if some body can post scientific test it would help.
May I know what car do you consider to have A+ ride quality south of 50lacs? I have Innova, Crysta and Endeavour and can safely say Hexa has better ride quality over bad patch. Yes, Hexa does not handle as good as Innova/Endeavour and may be the reason why you find the ride a bit bad on twisties.

Last edited by PrideRed : 22nd March 2018 at 15:12.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:26   #3873
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
This I feel is far from reality. Hexa has enough body roll and handling is no where close to sedans. There is significant body roll on cornering. It is probably better than Scorpio/Safari but not benchmark w.r.to handling among competition.
Handling can not be compared with Sedans. Bur ride quality can be. And Hexa excels there.

And, Even I am interested to know which car on the south of 50L has best ride quality.

Quote:
I find it handles far more like a sedan than any vehicle this large
I think he is trying to say that Hexa handles like a 'sedan' when compared to vehicles of this size

Last edited by prasanna_indaje : 22nd March 2018 at 15:29.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:34   #3874
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

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Originally Posted by prasanna_indaje View Post
Unfortunately, those cars with magic carpet ride quality are not mass market these days (or in those days, in India). Hence, the comparison can be made with the the competitors in the same price range.
If we agree that the ride quality is better than direct competitors ( like XUV, Crysta) or cross segment competitors (Creta, Compass), then that can be considered as the segment leader in ride quality.

Most of the videos out in the public internet point to the 'segment' leading ride quality.

Just curious - Is there any scientific way to measure ride quality ? Like some 'units' of measurement.
Preciously , there is a graph and other equipment .

Mr.Abhi,

I am not confused, when people mislead with words like magic carpet ride , A+ ride, i wanted to clarify. Instead they could have said its better than competitors in that price or range. I also know if there is anything wrong with my vehicle and nor have i asked you any help to reach TATA folkS.

The term ride quality has become very generic.

High speed ride?
Low speed ride?
Absorbing potholes
Body swaying either directions
Pitching
Body movement during direction changes( ex w222, with no body role where does the Gforce go, to the passengers)
Forces during acceleration and braking

Why independent suspension?
What is the torque curve of the hexa from idle to 1500rpm ?
Contours are for back , position etc they why hardness??
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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:46   #3875
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Preciously , there is a graph and other equipment .

The term ride quality has become very generic.

High speed ride?
Low speed ride?
Absorbing potholes
Body swaying either directions
Pitching
Body movement during direction changes( ex w222, with no body role where does the Gforce go, to the passengers)
Forces during acceleration and braking

Why independent suspension?
What is the torque curve of the hexa from idle to 1500rpm ?
Contours are for back , position etc they why hardness??
Great. Now, how do we convert this to data? Most these parameters as of now are being discussed based on the 'feel' of driver and passengers who have experience with multiple vehicles and can compare between them.

Since you have experience with vehicles of different make and segment, would like to hear your opinion on which car has best ride quality under 50L INR?
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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:51   #3876
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
This I feel is far from reality. Hexa has enough body roll and handling is no where close to sedans. There is significant body roll on cornering. It is probably better than Scorpio/Safari but not benchmark w.r.to handling among competition.
I didn't say it handles as well as a sedan. My point was that it's better than other vehicles of that size! It's a beast in size, so obviously there's no way it would handle like an Octavia for example, or even a Corolla, but it's definitely far better at this than - for example - a Fortuner or even a Crysta, based on my experiences with both.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 15:52   #3877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
This I feel is far from reality. Hexa has enough body roll and handling is no where close to sedans. There is significant body roll on cornering. It is probably better than Scorpio/Safari but not benchmark w.r.to handling among competition.

May I know what car do you consider to have A+ ride quality south of 50lacs? I have Innova, Crysta and Endeavour and can safely say Hexa has better ride quality over bad patch. Yes, Hexa does not handle as good as Innova/Endeavour and may be the reason why you find the ride a bit bad on twisties.
Nowdays car companies are concentrating on making their cars handle and ride like go karts. Even north of 50 most of them ride bad.

Hexa, duster , innova are better than their competition now, but my personal opinion is all of them are pathetic.

Among cars i have driven, owned etc i felt the best riding were

W140
w124
Mercedes w115, this thing handles like a dream and ride is superb, for all those who say soft and hard suspension, try this one.
Toyota lexus sedan of the 90s
Landcruiser both Prado and bigger one 2004 models
Ambassador yes, it will still beat a new E class fair and square on a bad road.
2004 skoda octavia
Opel astra
Ford escort.
Dodge kingsway, even if you throw a log underneath on the road , you wont feel it. Will post some videos later .

Latest models of Mercs, Innova, skoda , VW all have their rides ruined than their previous models.



Please see from 2.28





This one takes the cake



From 1.25 you see the graph of body movement, Try putting a new S class or the so called ride quality benchmarks .

Last edited by Aditya : 22nd March 2018 at 17:00. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 22nd March 2018, 16:20   #3878
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by imidnightmare View Post
I didn't say it handles as well as a sedan. My point was that it's better than other vehicles of that size! It's a beast in size, so obviously there's no way it would handle like an Octavia for example, or even a Corolla, but it's definitely far better at this than - for example - a Fortuner or even a Crysta, based on my experiences with both.
Nope it does not. Drive a Crysta/Endeavour/XUV/Hexa back to back on same strech and you will know what handles better. Both these cars are not meant to be pushed but Crysta has better handling and Hexa claws back with better ride. As a matter of fact check any of the comparison reviews:

Carwale:

Quote:
However, the Innova does feel more nimble as far as handling is concerned. The stiff suspension setup means it rolls less in corners, the steering is better-weighted and even at low speeds the Crysta feels more manageable. By contrast, the Hexa’s soft suspension makes it roll quite a bit in corners, but it always feels in control and the on demand four wheel drive system help make the handling even more secured in any condition.
NDTV:

Quote:
The steering is better weighted and the Innova's stiff suspension makes sure that it doesn't roll much, when around a corner, but the Hexa's soft suspension makes a load of difference and there's a fair bit of body roll that you have to tackle. Having said that, the Hexa is always in control and manageable.
Autocar:

Quote:
But be it in town or on the highway, the Hexa does feel its size. The steering is a touch too heavy at town speeds and there’s also lots of roll around high-speed corners. The Innova’s steering is heavy in its own right and there’s lots of lean around high-speed bends too, but on the whole, it feels more manageable and user-friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Nowdays car companies are concentrating on making their cars handle and ride like go karts. Even north of 50 most of them ride bad.

Hexa, duster , innova are better than their competition now, but my personal opinion is all of them are pathetic.

Among cars i have driven, owned etc i felt the best riding were

W140
w124
Mercedes w115, this thing handles like a dream and ride is superb, for all those who say soft and hard suspension, try this one.
Toyota lexus sedan of the 90s
Landcruiser both Prado and bigger one 2004 models
Ambassador yes, it will still beat a new E class fair and square on a bad road.
2004 skoda octavia
Opel astra
Ford escort.
Dodge kingsway, even if you throw a log underneath on the road , you wont feel it. Will post some videos later .

Latest models of Mercs, Innova, skoda , VW all have their rides ruined than their previous models.
Can we please compare ride quality with current options and of comparative price range? I don't want to compare a ride quality of RR phantom and say E class has pathetic ride. E class might not be A+ but then it is still best across segment.

To me current models are moving towards right direction of achieving a balance between ride and handling. People wanting pillowy ride might not like this though.

Last edited by PrideRed : 22nd March 2018 at 16:25.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 16:54   #3879
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I was only talking about ride not price range, forget a phantom, Hexa is better riding than E class.
Right direction in what way, back breaking rides, low profile tires and wooden seats .
The misconception here is soft suspension rides better and hard dosent. A good example of ride and handling videos are already posted above.

If you see the last video at 2.00 , the bumpy road corner is what we mostly experience in India. Its a classic example softer suspension handling better, imagine a hard suspension car there.

Last edited by Frankenstein : 22nd March 2018 at 16:55.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 17:16   #3880
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
I was only talking about ride not price range, forget a phantom, Hexa is better riding than E class.
Right direction in what way, back breaking rides, low profile tires and wooden seats .
The misconception here is soft suspension rides better and hard dosent. A good example of ride and handling videos are already posted above.

If you see the last video at 2.00 , the bumpy road corner is what we mostly experience in India. Its a classic example softer suspension handling better, imagine a hard suspension car there.
The ride of Hexa/Innova is far from back breaking. There are are people who prefer harder compound seats and who like softer compound. You have options available out in market.

The vintage cars you mentioned might ride better but you are not talking about how bad these handle. In the video mentioned, you can also see the body roll(and bouncing like a ball) because of softer suspension. I for instance drive on fairly good roads for 90% of time and my car does not warrant such a soft suspension. I definitely don't want a car that has magic carpet like ride but handles like a boat.

Last edited by PrideRed : 22nd March 2018 at 17:27.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 17:30   #3881
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

Hexa ride is not back breaking but at the same time not so great. Innova crysta, the top end one with 17" wheels is kind of on bad roads.

Seats, precisely there should be an option , but there isnt, you are forced with hard seats. No options .
Most of them i posted barring the plymouth handle well, in the sense for an aggressive driver on Indian roads they handle well.
Yes, my point is you have an option to drive a hard suspension car and companies have made it a norm.
For true luxury ( the point why people buy lazy boy instead of a park bench) there is no option , Just trying to muster all like minded people who want ride to test these so called ride benchmarks rigorously and make a point that ride quality should be introduced back into the market. Luxury is not only bluetooth or 500bhp engine with 10 confused gears.

The basic core of a car, the suspension, seats , solid engineering and everlasting all are gone .This forum can do a test and publish the reports, which may wake up the companies.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 17:57   #3882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
I also know if there is anything wrong with my vehicle and nor have i asked you any help to reach TATA folkS.
Ok the reason i asked is because you seemed to be bothered about its performance on ghats and suspension issues. That was the way you portrayed it in your initial posts.

Another reason for asking was we are eager in adding owners to our groups so that we are mutually helping each other and organising meets and events.

However i take it that you may not be an owner of any Hexa and may have just experienced it for a few kilometres and hence are finding it difficult to comprehend what we are saying.
If you really don't have any issues considering you are an owner, then i don't understand your objective of painting such a picture in your initial post.

Just wondering if you aren't happy with the "back breaking seats", why choose it when you have other cars to consider?

Either scenarios, we have ended up nowhere! You either have issues with the car and you want it sorted. Or you just feel this way and that about the car which was not how we felt after reading your post!

It has to be either of the two and please understand, i was trying to help. Anyways, happy ownership!

Last edited by abhi7013 : 22nd March 2018 at 18:00.
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Old 22nd March 2018, 18:12   #3883
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I can understand his viewpoint. For me, due to having bad roads all around me in Himachal, comfortable ride is right on top of my priority list.
He is right in asking, that for a country with such bad roads, shouldn't tweaking the suspension perfectly be the top priority for a company. You can't use 500 horses on bad roads, so I would rather have my money spent on the best suspension available out there.
My friends still think I am a moron when I tell them I will be buying a Duster. That choice shifted to Hexa after TeamBHP came out praising the Hexa suspension.
There will always be comparable values but some people prefer to have absolute values as a benchmark.
I would rather have the car have a magic carpet ride i.e. no matter what condition the road is in, I shouldn't feel anything inside while riding at 60kmph.
So while any car might have the best suspension setup amongst it's peers, it still might not be good enough for some people like me.
I wouldn't have a choice unless I have the desire, the time and the money to do some modifications apart from going for the best available, like many of you who have bought a Hexa, but that won't mean I would be completely happy with it.

OT - Has any company really tried to provide individual seat suspensions. With the help of today's computers, it just might be possible that you can have the hardest suspension setup for amazing handling while individual seat suspension keeps you as comfortable as possible.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 04:12   #3884
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

The science behind car seats clearly concludes that firmer seats are better for longer journeys and backs.

That said the general incorrect perception is that a soft seat is more comfortable. Some even believe that seats with springs like in earlier Ambassadors or even Mercedes are more comfortable. But this is a misconception. If it weren't so springs in seats wound not have been discontinued.

Hexa seats are firm and about as perfect as you can get them especially in that price point. It can do with more underthigh support for much taller individuals.

The ride in my view is also quite good but that can be debated basis expectations and road conditions as one type of suspension cannot match all road conditions.

Last edited by ACM : 23rd March 2018 at 04:15.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:29   #3885
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Default Re: Tata Hexa : Official Review

There is no doubt about firmer seats being better. But the idea proposed earlier here of these having built in suspension is an intriguing one. It is certainly one way to to beat the usual compromise between ride and handling which always involves a trade off between the two factors.

I wonder why this has not been seriously pursued by any make.
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