[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Some update regarding the Hexa BS6.

3. Tata will launch the Hexa BS6 most likely without an SCR and with an LNT which will result in significant cost reduction.

4. The Varicor 400 engine is already BS5 compliant so Tata can launch the BS6 variant within a lesser time frame as they have to make a jump of only 1 step compared to other manufacturers who have to jump 2 steps.

Auto dimming IRVM and Xenon headlamps along with a sunroof will be offered.

A bit of a noob here but point 3 went over my head

So if Varicor 400 is BS5, which probably should be similar to Euro 5, means the engine won't face more wear and tear compared to BS4 engines? Since the sulphur required for lubrication is less in the Varicor compared to BS4. BS4 diesel has 50 ppm sulfur, whereas Euro 5 has 10ppm. Boy if this is true then the current Hexa is a real steal !! And I would be relieved!

Hope existing Hexa owners can get the IRVM and Xenon headlamps as add ons.

[ram87pune]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

A bit of a noob here but point 3 went over my head

SCR is short for Selective Catalytic Reduction while LNT is short for Lean Nitrox Trap. Both these technologies are used for reducing the NOx emissions in diesel engines.

Basically the SCR requires an AdBlu tank which injects urea through a special catalyst into the stream of exhaust gases which breaks down the exhaust gases into Nitrogen, Water and tiny amount of CO2 which is then expelled through the exhaust pipe.

The LNT is a cheaper and less complicated alternative in emission reduction technology. In a LNT the NOx from the exhaust gases is stored when the engine is running lean. When the trap starts to become full the engine management system signals the fuel injectors to spray more fuel into the combustion chamber than needed thus resulting in a rich mixture. This rich mixture causes the NOx stored in the trap to be converted into Nitrogen and is then released through the exhaust pipe.

[sandeepsc]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

A friendly advice from a happy owner - drop the XT and go for the XTA instead.

Thanks a ton Shreyans for your friendly advice. Actually I took test drive of automatic only today and greatly appreciate the smoothness and easy to drive ability of its. But all ends up with price as I have already stretched my budget by 2 lakhs more. Nevertheless if the deal is further negotiated tomorrow then I can consider it but I think it is difficult case.

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

Finally how much discount did you get? I enquired in Pune, and was told that 1 lakh is standard discount, and we will forego all the dealer commission in insurance.

1 lakh is standard discount and further managed to get 75k extra till now. Will try to negotiate further around handling charges which are 11.6k. April/May make XT urban bronze colour 7 seater is available for 2.25 lakhs discount.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Zero transmission related maintenance costs are added bonus (no periodic clutch overhauls, no gear oil replacements)...

Zero or huge costs. I am wonder if TASS has the ability to rebuild or service the AT box in case it starts acting up or will they just replace it. I agree that the AT box has been very reliable till now but for high mileage users the box will eventually require an overhaul.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

Zero or huge costs. I am wonder if TASS has the ability to rebuild or service the AT box in case it starts acting up or will they just replace it. I agree that the AT box has been very reliable till now but for high mileage users the box will eventually require an overhaul.

The AT gearbox is sealed and cannot be opened by TASS. It comes factory filled with oil for lifetime and is backed by warranty of 150k km

[condor]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

SCR is short for Selective Catalytic Reduction while LNT is short for Lean Nitrox Trap.

Ram, thanks for clarifying. There is a posting guideline to not exclusively use the acronyms, esp the non-familiar ones. Not all of readers know the terms. Including myself - I actually read SCR as Silicon Controlled Rectifier .


So next time, pls do include the full version also so we also get to know the terms.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

Zero or huge costs. I am wonder if TASS has the ability to rebuild or service the AT box in case it starts acting up or will they just replace it. I agree that the AT box has been very reliable till now but for high mileage users the box will eventually require an overhaul.

I have a HEXA XTA from the very first lot, bought in March 2017. I was confident of this vehicle even though it was the first torque converter from TATA after doing some research on the 6l50 transmission.
Spoke to my friend who owns a garage in USA and got feedback on this gearbox about how it performs in GM Camaro/Cadillac there. In USA these were running more than 2,00,000 miles without oil changes easily. In our driving conditions it may require an oil change at around the 1,50,000km mark.

Initially this AT was rumored to cost around 5-6 lakhs but have seen the actual cost at 3 lakhs approx. It was replaced for a vehicle in my local TASS which had an oil leak due to an accident. And this job was done in a tier 2 city like Vijayawada and was happy to know that TATA motors had trained the mechanics well for this job.

[Sunil2307]

@damodar, 200,000 miles = 320,000 kms. So maybe in our conditions the oil change might be around the 225,000 to 250,000 km mark rather than the 150,000 km mark.

I do not have any sort of data to back up what I just said above. I just thought that you mixed up km and miles. Even though we have rough conditions, but it is not that rough to warrant less than 50% performance.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by Sunil2307

I do not have any sort of data to back up what I just said above. I just thought that you mixed up km and miles. Even though we have rough conditions, but it is not that rough to warrant less than 50% performance.

Hi I did not mix up miles with km, but the lower kms for Indian driving conditions was assumed by be me to be on a safer side.
Considering our high operating temperatures with crawling traffic conditions it's better to change anywhere between the 1,20,000km to 1,50,000km mark.
Now oil change in a sealed for life auto transmissions is debatable subject across various forums.
Have to still come across really high mileage torque converter vehicles, came to know of a few high mileage examples of Land Rover Freelanders at JLR dealers which haven't got any oil change done even after 1.6 lak km.

[Mu009]

Originally Posted by damodar

I have a HEXA XTA from the very first lot, bought in March 2017. I was confident of this vehicle even though it was the first torque converter from TATA after doing some research on the 6l50 transmission.

I tend to agree with you. This "sealed for life" business is rather dodgy. Cars over here usually don't run anywhere close to as much as they do over in the USA, so manufacturers can get away with that statement here when it comes to torque converters.

So those of us with high running have to think about this for ourselves. Add to that, manufacturers sometimes keep laughable service intervals for parts like air and fuel filters in order to keep perceived service costs down - leading people like me to look at 200k+ km transmission fluid replacement schedules with a great deal of suspicion.

And while transmission fluid isn't affected by our relatively higher temperatures as much as air filters are affected by our dusty conditions/fuel filters by our adulterated fuel, I expect our conditions will reduce transmission fluid life in some way.

So far, I've cut fuel filter replacement time to 1/3rd, and air filter replacement time to half. Wonder what I should cut transmission fluid replacement time to? Because it's nowhere near as inconsequentially cheap as fuel/air filters.

Also, the good part about TC replacement is that it can all be done from the underbody - it's opening plastic panels/working on the interior where ASCs really mess up your car during repairs. Not so much about training IMO. The training part would be about aligning the flex plate, getting the dowel pin just right etc.

Also, of course the 6L50 wouldn't be 500-600k INR - the Endeavour's 6R80 costs ~325k INR.

What fluid change interval does Tata specify? Or is it left at "for life"? The Endeavour's is 240k kms. I had it checked at 40k - looked a healthy pink (really easy to do with the car on the lift - there's a nice dipstick) . Perhaps you can have your Hexa's checked at next service as well. That should give the first indication IMO.

Originally Posted by JediKnight

Zero or huge costs. I am wonder if TASS has the ability to rebuild or service the AT box in case it starts acting up or will they just replace it. I agree that the AT box has been very reliable till now but for high mileage users the box will eventually require an overhaul.

No actually. The only "overhaul" required is fluid change. Which is easy. Though somewhat expensive. A midsize BOF vehicle would require about 10L of 2k INR/L + labour. 20-30k INR post 150k-200k kms isn't unreasonable at all IMO.

But yes - repair will be difficult. Replacement not so much.

Generally speaking, if a TC doesn't fail (and they usually don't), it's the cheapest and most fuss-free transmission.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by Mu009

...
No actually. The only "overhaul" required is fluid change. Which is easy. Though somewhat expensive. A midsize BOF vehicle would require about 10L of 2k INR/L + labour. 20-30k INR post 150k-200k kms isn't unreasonable at all IMO.

But yes - repair will be difficult. Replacement not so much.

Generally speaking, if a TC doesn't fail (and they usually don't), it's the cheapest and most fuss-free transmission.

Won't the internal clutches and bands wear out with time ? I remember seeing a TC transmission rebuild video somewhere. The poster mentioned that the clutch packs and bands wear out and have to be replaced.

[padmrajravi]

Torque Converters have a lock-up clutch which creates a one-on-one coupling between engine and wheel rpm once it reaches specific speeds. That clutch actually wears out after long kms. I am sure that period is well beyond a lakh kms. There should be other mechanical components also which wears out. Since we are able to switch between multiple speed gears, there should be mechanical components there as well. I wonder how they handle multiple speed gears. Anybody knowledgeable enough please enlighten.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by Mu009

What fluid change interval does Tata specify? Or is it left at "for life"? The Endeavour's is 240k kms. I had it checked at 40k - looked a healthy pink (really easy to do with the car on the lift - there's a nice dipstick) . Perhaps you can have your Hexa's checked at next service as well. That should give the first indication IMO.

Tata mentions in the user manual as filled for life and there is no kms limit specified too. The only maintenance required for this transmission is with the cleaning of breather cap every 10k.
Again no dipstick in this which I would have loved to have, only a bolt to check the oil level.

Another reason why I believe TML has done a thorough engineering with the HEXA is that the owners manual mentions to look out for transmission overheating symbol. Till now I have to come across a HEXA owner who got the high transmission oil temperature warning.
Engineers have taken an extra precaution by giving a separate oil cooler unlike the Innova crysta where the radiator functions as the oil cooler. With normal usage the transmission oil should easily last 1,50,000km - 2,00,000km.

[Kosfactor]

Filled for life is a bit tricky! It is like saying that a transmission's life is only as much as the fluid in it, that's not good.

At the end of the day, there is oil, there are gears, something's got to give. Usually it's the oil that breaks down over time and needs to be replaced, which as we all can agree is the easier thing to do.

I think it must be inspected periodically and replaced once it looks like it's up to no good.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Filled for life is a bit tricky! It is like saying that a transmission's life is only as much as the fluid in it, that's not good.

At the end of the day, there is oil, there are gears, something's got to give. Usually it's the oil that breaks down over time and needs to be replaced, which as we all can agree is the easier thing to do.

I think it must be inspected periodically and replaced once it looks like it's up to no good.

Since there is discussion on tranny oil and it's life let me pitch in. I don't own a Hexa or a torque converter for that matter but have recently got the tranny oil changed on my 5 year old 70K km done Jetta TDI.

Here are my views:

- Firstly, VW recommend that the tranny oil is sealed for life and need not be replenished just like most other OEMs. However, 6 months back, I started facing a weird humming noise while turning in and accelerating in gear simultaneously.

- Thankfully, my wheel bearings were anyway on their way out and even after changing them, the noise on turning persisted

- My SA caught the problem on time and narrowed it down to the tranny fluid. I was told the fluid, due to a combination of factors such as sitting for long, humidity and heat tends to lose viscosity very early in its life (5 years in my car's case). When this happens, the gear shifts become notchy and the humming noise starts emanating due to friction between the differential and the gearbox.

I have learnt that manufacturer recommendations are always optimistic including engine oil changes. What was supposed to be sealed for life (about 10 years!) gave up only 5 years later. This has been observed in 2-3 Jettas in my city itself. An auto transmission is even more sensitive to such changes.

Better to just get it changed as a precaution every 5 years if you ask me. There is no way of checking GB fluid health except for draining it either.