[alokk0912]

Amazing review by Kush. I was about to comment about Arun's video that why do we need to look elsewhere when we have this fantastic forum for all our questions and voila, there was this video of Kush who is fellow bhpian.

He was spot on when he said that mechanicals will not fail you. In my old scorpio, more than 130 K kms and not a single breakdown or mechnical issue ever except for normal wear and tear.

We will get to hear from all the new owners as they start munching miles out here.

[kmaitrey064]

Originally Posted by rahulya007

That way, show me one vehicle in the passenger segment which is 100% complete or does not have issues at all. Even Honda, a Japanese brand, did a recall for WRV and Honda City for some faulty parts, the less we talk about Skoda, the better. In that sense, we are only talking about a fix to the existing feature which KushGandhi mentioned in the video very well. We as humans are not 100% perfect so something made by us can have some issues which are anyways fixable.

You seem to be mixing functionality, fit/finish issues with reliability issues. Recalls are generally done for the latter. Since I've spent a decade in designing signal conditioning circuits/solutions for industrial applications, here's the difference from my perspective. Those from mechanical engineering background can please correct me in the context of car manufacturing.

Reliability tests are not done on part-part basis. They are too costly and harsh to be done so. They are done on a group of parts/lots that are supposed to give extreme cases of performance. Some do batch-testing for reliability. Hence, when you anticipate a part to fail for reliability, based on new information that you have for your design, you, the original manufacturer, issue a recall.

What we've been discussing so far are basic functionality and fit/finish checks. These are supposed to be done on part-part basis. Poor coverage of part-part testing for basic functionalities, fit/finish speaks volumes about quality of manufacturing process.

Btw, as mentioned, my work has been so far going into industrial applications, e.g., automated factory floors, energy metering, etc. Designing chips that actually go into cars is a relative nightmare as automotive standards require systematic redundancies, comprehensive functional safety, periodic audits of design database, compliance to higher reliability standards etc. If I, an engineer, need to be committed so much for making my work comply with quality/reliability, why can't I expect the same from another bunch of engineers (people who design and manufacture cars)?

[alokk0912]

Quick observations after first 200 Km highway ride on my Scorpio N, Z8L, Petrol AT..

1. Drive and Handling is very easy and smooth both at low and high speed
2. Gear shift is noticeable especially for lower ones. Hopefully, will settle down after couple of thousand of KMs
3. I read about the busy ride at 100 KMPH hence was watching this. I observed that RPM moves beyond 2100 when shifting gears. However, it settles around 1700 rpm real quick after the gear change and you can cruise at this RPM even at 100+ speed which makes it a great mile muncher
4. Can do crazy speeds very easily without batting an eyelid. Word of caution to fellow members who are riding BOF for the first time. Please remember that this is BOF with high centre of gravity and should be driven accordingly. Be careful at corners and curves considering that you will not even feel you are at 120
5. Still retains the ruff and tuff feel which I expect from Scorpio and I personally love that feel and makes it worth every dime
6. I was wary of MRF typres mostly in terms of noise at highway speed. However, was pleasantly surprised. Did not use the infotainment system at all to check on the NVH and it was just super. Please note that my benchmark is other BOF vehicles across price segments and not the Korean and German cars. I am sorry but I really get irritated when I see comparison with anything under the Sun
7. I am not features guy so I feel that it just had way too many!! Best part I like is that while voice alerts in my previous scorpio was of a man, this time it is a sweet voice of a lady. Finally, even Scorpio got it that men will listen more to a lady and lady will anyways listen to a lady

[blackfox]

Originally Posted by Aerosmith

1. Wireless charging is not working (tried with multiple phones). Has anyone faced this ?

I think wireless charger is there only in 4*4 AT

[ishlinea7260]

Originally Posted by ishlinea7260

Received a call from the service advisor, he said that he has checked and normally it is backlit.

Mahindra guys came through.

They have addressed the issue of the backlight not working.Dealership was kind enough to send service personnel on site.

Apparently some wire wasn’t plugged in.

They have also noted down the plastic panels that had scratches for replacement.

Super Happy with the service.😊

[Venkatesh]

Anand Mahindra took delivery of his Scorpio-N.

Big day for me; received my ScorpioN

Link

[rahulya007]

Originally Posted by kmaitrey064

You seem to be mixing functionality, fit/finish issues with reliability issues. Recalls are generally done for the latter. Since I've spent a decade in designing signal conditioning circuits/solutions for industrial applications, here's the difference from my perspective. Those from mechanical engineering background can please correct me in the context of car manufacturing.

What we've been discussing so far are basic functionality and fit/finish checks. These are supposed to be done on part-part basis. Poor coverage of part-part testing for basic functionalities, fit/finish speaks volumes about quality of manufacturing process.

Brother, I completely agree there are fit and finish issues and some of the points like roof lining gasket, etc. are QC issues but we have not heard anyone speaking of it, even KushGandhi could have mentioned if he had seen one in his car. I spoke about general quality controls, feature availability or improvement post software update which is a talk of the town and recalls which eventually comes down to quality of the component and I totally agree with you that such parts are sampled. if you consider a car as whole, it only comes to one point - no product is 100% perfect.

Mahindra agreeing to replace scratched panel's in another members car speaks of their desire to improve and ensure customer satisfaction, which is more important that delivering a perfect product with low after sales support.

[RijuC]

Originally Posted by kmaitrey064

Btw, as mentioned, my work has been so far going into industrial applications, e.g., automated factory floors, energy metering, etc. Designing chips that actually go into cars is a relative nightmare as automotive standards require systematic redundancies, comprehensive functional safety, periodic audits of design database, compliance to higher reliability standards etc. If I, an engineer, need to be committed so much for making my work comply with quality/reliability, why can't I expect the same from another bunch of engineers (people who design and manufacture cars)?

You have just echoed the thoughts I had in my mind. Automobile industry is a peculiar case in India. Here the half baked products are accepted as a norm, despite of the fact that we, the consumers, must have to pay it full. And cases of frauds, suppressing the facts, damaged products delivery seem to be very high in this industry. For half of my career I was in such an industry where a single fault or malfunction can lead to catastrophic disasters affecting a large population or part of the country. 100s of tonnes metallic lumps rotate at 3000-3600 rpm. And go a little more high tech, you will see 100 thousand rpm speeds in cryogenics albeit those rotating equipment are tiny. Then why the QA/QC and Testing are neglected in Automobiles?
Also, I could see from various photographs that the vehicles are tested in anechoic chambers etc. for EMI/ EMC testings. Hence the electronics must be robust.

[slylenser]

Anyone knows why the online tracking system for bookings has been pulled down?

It's gone into a permanent technical upgrade mode.

There is no input with the dealership either, of bookings of Dazzling Silver cars. They say they have no idea when production of that color will start, or when to expect delivery.

[acquillew]

So yesterday it rained in Ahmedabad and I got to check the car in rains and night. What I wanted to really check was the performance of the headlights inside the city and on highways when the roads are wet.

Unfortunately, I did not find the lights upto the mark. The low beam is pretty useless inside the city when the roads are wet and there is oncoming light. The high beam hits a good spot but at the cost of blinding oncoming traffic. Out on the highway, it is the same story with the white lights. With properly divided roads and no oncoming lights, the low beam is functional and provides illumination to some extent, but as soon as you have lights from oncoming vehicles, you can't see much. At one point, it became difficult for me to tell if the light is on or off. Out on the highways, you have a little more freedom to use the higher beam and that helps. I believe we will see many headlight upgrades on the new Scorpios.

The MRFs offer good grip in rains and at no point I felt them losing grip. In my drive so far, I am pretty happy with the tyres - cornering, road noise, and grip in dry and wet conditions. No leakages anywhere in the vehicle, After a good couple of hours of drive, I came home and checked the car thoroughly to see if any of the usual suspects had leakages. No water through sunroof, and no moisture in any of the lights.

I have driven the car about 700 km now, and been getting about 11.5 kmpl in the city. On the highways, with the meter reset, I got about 16 kmpl with a very light foot and speeds in the higher double digits. Both these numbers are from the instrument cluster.

With the auto gearbox, you can cruise at about 95-100 kmph with the engine easing at about 1700-1800 RPM. Yes, it does shift into the higher gears at about 2000 RPM, but then settles down at ~1800 RPM with cruising speeds of about 100 kmph.

[Shrey1230]

Parked my Scorpio N for half an hour just come back to see and realise this coincidence. Mahindra has truly come a long way, both in terms of their refinement and design line. But what has always stayed common throughout these ~20 years is the butchness and the sheer road presence of these machines.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by kushgandhi

These are my first impressions of the car. Mostly positive and some irritating issues. But overall I am happy with the purchase and can’t wait to 4Xplor more in my vehicle.

Originally Posted by acquillew

I think that is how the gearbox is tuned by default. I remember seeing the review video by Gagan Chaudhary and remember the exact same RPMs.
See this link at 31:38 and you will see Gagan mention the exact same numbers: https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=jNjx4ymigCE

First post in the forum so forgive me if any mistakes. This video captures it better. Start from 28th minute. The reviewer clearly mentions that there is a difference of approx. 500 RPM between manual and automatic and that is huge when it comes to mileage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZU9Hk8O6MI&t=1718s

[UD17]

Originally Posted by kmaitrey064

Recalls are generally done for the latter.

Reliability tests are not done on part-part basis. They are too costly and harsh to be done so.

Recalls could be done for suspected parts also from a batch, all the components from this said suspected batch may not have any reliability issues. So recall is a broader things which company takes a decision based on their lack of confidence or lack of enough evidences that all parts of that said suspected batch are good or bad.

Regarding the testing for autocomponents, we usually test the parts in many stages of APQP process- proto, design verification (DV) and production verification (PV). The aim is to reproduce failure from previous learning from field (DFMEA) and get a minimum C90( 90% confidence) and R90(90%reliability). As we move on near production the PV tests should show improvements over proto parts testing as many design improvements are done between these two stages.

OEM will follow their own testing of engine or vehicle level to prove these components. So testing wise I don't think any company leave any stone unturned.

The problem/niggles/failures arises when supplier or OEM assembley line operators cut corners due to negligence, chalta hai attitude and do not follow the set control plans. I have seen most of the mistakes are very silly which leads to bigger failure ( i.e. not provide enough toque to bolts, missed components, loose fitments, mixed components, change of material etc.). Mind you OEM depends on supplier quality in a big way, many components are pass through for PEM for QA checks so quality of supplier played the most important role in defining the reliability or niggle free experience of any automobile.

[kmaitrey064]

Originally Posted by UD17

Recalls could be done for suspected parts also from a batch, all the components from this said suspected batch may not have any reliability issues. So recall is a broader things which company takes a decision based on their lack of confidence or lack of enough evidences that all parts of that said suspected batch are good or bad.

This is my understanding as well. Results of randomized batch-testing and new findings on original design can be the main reasons for recall even my my line of work.

Originally Posted by UD17

Regarding the testing for autocomponents, we usually test the parts in many stages of APQP process- proto, design verification (DV) and production verification (PV). The aim is to reproduce failure from previous learning from field (DFMEA) and get a minimum C90( 90% confidence) and R90(90%reliability). As we move on near production the PV tests should show improvements over proto parts testing as many design improvements are done between these two stages.

This is very analogous to what semiconductor industry does in terms of testing. The terms used to describe various aspects have different names but the overall idea is same.

Originally Posted by UD17

The problem/niggles/failures arises when supplier or OEM assembley line operators cut corners due to negligence, chalta hai attitude and do not follow the set control plans.

This is exactly what I was meaning by lack of quality control at vehicle production plants. And as you mentioned, this is not a very difficult thing to address, if one tackles the 'chalta hai' human mindset appropriately.

Originally Posted by UD17

Mind you OEM depends on supplier quality in a big way, many components are pass through for PEM for QA checks so quality of supplier played the most important role in defining the reliability or niggle free experience of any automobile.

Well, I work for a tier-1 semiconductor company. Such companies charge a premium for their parts for this specific reason. They leave no stone unturned in part-part testing coverage and 'Design for Reliability' practices. Ordinary buyers don't easily comprehend why Japanese charge lot more for same features/functionalities than other carmakers. Apart from profit/business model, this is one important reason.

Thanks a ton for explaining this to me, in a manner that an engineer like me can appreciate. This, I believe is the true power of Team-BHP forum and differentiates this forum from other online platforms. Thanks to the moderators for keeping this thread continuing till this point.

[NerDriver]

Originally Posted by acquillew

So yesterday it rained in Ahmedabad and I got to check the car in rains and night. What I wanted to really check was the performance of the headlights inside the city and on highways when the roads are wet.

Unfortunately, I did not find the lights upto the mark. The low beam is pretty useless inside the city when the roads are wet and there is oncoming light. The high beam hits a good spot but at the cost of blinding oncoming traffic. Out on the highway, it is the same story with the white lights. With properly divided roads and no oncoming lights, the low beam is functional and provides illumination to some extent, but as soon as you have lights from oncoming vehicles, you can't see much. At one point, it became difficult for me to tell if the light is on or off. Out on the highways, you have a little more freedom to use the higher beam and that helps. I believe we will see many headlight upgrades on the new Scorpios.
.

Regarding the headlights upgrade - wouldn’t that void the electronics warranty ? I’m in same boat with the disappointing illumination from the headlamps and have to go for an upgrade. Planning to visit a lighting expert recommended by a fellow bhpian. But I’m really curious - this headlamp issue has been highlighted by almost all owners , can this not be turned into a petition(in a way of speaking) to MnM and ask them to do something about it ? This is clearly a problem and bad rep for a vehicle like Scorpio.. thoughts ?