[Dr.AD]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Is the Indian version equipped with an India-spec gearbox? AFAIK the following attachment shows the boxes available for the GP in any market

I don't know for sure if India-spec gearbox is different or if it is indeed the reason for different performance of India-spec Punto. However, it seems the claim that your attachment lists gearboxes for "GP in any market" may be wrong. The India-spec 1.4 Petrol Punto's gear ratios according to ACI (and the report which Fiat India has endorsed by putting here: http://www.fiatpunto.in/downloads/autocar_240609.pdf ) are: 4.723, 2.238, 1.52, 1.156, 0.82. These are different from the any numbers in your table. So it seems like Fiat does have a gearbox outside your table.

Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar

We (members of punto users group) have done a number of 0-100 runs in the punto 1.4
the average time comes out to around 14 secs. Slowest was 15.1, quickest was 13.3
these have been done over a period of time. The quickest was achieved in the recent run. This was after the 15k service.
We also have videos of the speedo which gives a fair idea about how much time it takes to reach 100. Unfortunately I cannot post them here (or for that matter anywhere) since the owner of the car does not wish to post them on an open forum.

Amogh, interesting information and thanks for sharing it. Many Linea owners have also claimed that their Lineas seem to give better performance after the initial service. If we have any similar Linea measurements by their owners, it will be interesting to compare those with your Punto numbers.

My point is that we need to have fair and standardized comparison between Linea and Punto. Since both ACI and Overdrive are reputed magazines and I belive they would compare both cars in a fair and standardized manner (and Fiat India has also put ACI report on their website, which means Fiat itself accepts the accuracy of the report stating 0-100 kmph time of 16.58s for Punto 1.4), we have some scientific and objective data at our hand. That data suggests that Punto is slower than Linea. Now even though I agree with the "intuition" part that this does not make sense, I feel I should believe in the data than my subjective thoughts unless I can produce evidence to disprove the available data.

By the way, I am not ruling out the possibility that these magazine test data are inaccurate. But I find it improbable that both these magazines are wrong for Punto and they are wrong by such big margin that when the real numbers are 12 or 13 point something, these magazines are reporting numbers which are 16 and 18 point something.

Thanks,
-AD

[headers]

Hey, lets forget the numbers and enjoy the drive.

The numbers are important only if we are talking race track or rally spec situations.

IMHO, the punto and linea are sweet packages that improve with time. Lets hope the TATA FIAT collab works in our favor!

[fiat_tarun]

Zigwheels claims 14.2 secs for the 1.4. Tried getting Zigwheels numbers for the Linea as well, but looks like they've tested only the diesel...

[trrk]

Hi,

Originally Posted by jacksons

In BBC magzine they claimed 12.5 seconds for punto, seems like Autocar people were little tired while testing Punto.

You have got the time wrong!

Originally Posted by jacksons

Or they must have tested 1.2 instead by mistake.

No, they tested the 1.4.

Originally Posted by jacksons

This BBC topgear India magzine it was August or September issue 2009, I wanted preserve that copy but some how lost it.
I will try if Ican find one.
Test drive was done on Indian Punto 1.4 in India.

It is the August 2009 issue. It is a comparison between Punto 1.4, Fabia 1.2 and i20 1.2.

The Zero to 100kph quoted are 15.06, 17.29 and 13.8 seconds respectively.

Page 87, middle, comparison table.

In page 131, in their new car guide, they have mentioned 12.5 secs. They don't have corresponding figures for Punto D or Linea P / D.

[xingamazon]

I dont see any point giving so much emphasis to the 0-100 data. I mean I frankly agree Punto is a good car and does belong to the drivers car category to an extent.
So what just because one magazine got the stats wrong (or even if they are right) I am not sure how does that matter that all the Punto lovers to get emotional.
According to me if the stat is right or wrong doesnt matter all it matters is Punto is a good car. And that whats counts, lets not get bogged by just one stat and discuss to eternity.
Moreover, when would one practically to a 0-100 at one shot, its almost never so dont think this stat really matters.

[TC_aashay]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Is the Indian version equipped with an India-spec gearbox? AFAIK the following attachment shows the boxes available for the GP in any market

this spec sheet is for the European market as most of those engines are not sold in india. Didnt you notice the 1.4 16v is a 6 speed? the 1.3 FGT is 5 speed and the 1.3 VGT (Indian Linea engine) is 6 speed?
list is irrelevant for India & in our discussion.

As for the gear box:
The indian Punto / Linea (petrol & diesel) have a different gear box when compared to the European 5 speed/6 speed transmission.

Its the same gear box from the fiat palio in india. (even in the 100 bhp palio)
If you go to any TASC, they will say the serial number of the gear box is same for the punto/Linea & the palio.

Different gear ratio's; reduced power output, delay in launching newer cars. (R&D so that it is capable of harnessing the torque from the new FIRE/MJD engines. this launch delay due to R&D is my assumption)
This is another reason, for the less power of the punto/linea in India.
In europe, the same 1.4 FIRE churns out 95 bhp. The tjet gives 120 bhp while in India they are estimating 108 bhp. (on the same indian punto/Linea gear box).

And the same gear box, used in the Vista, Manza (running on the same FIAT engines named as drivetech4)

This is the most logical reason, and answers most of the questions, when compared to the European spec in terms of performance. Cost cutting is the primary reason, and Fiat Italy found it with the gear box.
Do correct me if I'm wrong!

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

No, this is not true. According to Autocar India (July 2010 issue) data, the 0 to 100 kmph times for Linea and Punto are:

Linea 1.4: 15.14s
Linea MJD: 15.04s
Punto 1.4: 16.58s
Punto MJD: 17.84s

Thus, Punto is slower than Linea in 0-100 kmph time. Further, even for '20-80 kmph in 3rd gear' times, Punto is marginally slower than Linea according to ACI data.

BTW, the more heavy the car the more faster it goes???? considering the autocar 1.4 FIRE Linea faster than the punto... that is so so true on their magazine paper. lol.

As for the 1.4 performance goes, try sitting with a owner who is used to drive his 1.4 FIRE at the red line (be it a Punto or a Linea). If possible sit with a stop watch.
No matter how many 0-100 runs you do... the majority of the runs with a proper launch, it will never be more than 15 seconds. The best ones should be in the 14 seconds barrier.
As for the 0-100 timings, i dont care... its the experience that counts.
And i'm enjoying every moment of it
Bring it on the "ROAD" against the Grande Punto, Dont burn rubber on the Internet.

[sandeepmdas]

@TC_aashay, thanks for clearing the confusion.

OTOH, the drive ratios should be mentioned in the Punto User Manual ? I am not a GP owner yet, I'm still waiting for my car to arrive

[nkrishnap]

I believe the current gearbox in Palio, Linea and Punto is the C510. Probably the Vista and the Manza are using the same box as well.

It seems they have used the existing gearboxes to achieve the cost efficiencies instead of bringing in a completely new gearbox. May be the T-jet and the 1.6 MJD will receive newer gearboxes.

[samsan02]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

My point is that we need to have fair and standardized comparison between Linea and Punto. Since both ACI and Overdrive are reputed magazines and I belive they would compare both cars in a fair and standardized manner (and Fiat India has also put ACI report on their website, which means Fiat itself accepts the accuracy of the report stating 0-100 kmph time of 16.58s for Punto 1.4), we have some scientific and objective data at our hand. That data suggests that Punto is slower than Linea. Now even though I agree with the "intuition" part that this does not make sense, I feel I should believe in the data than my subjective thoughts unless I can produce evidence to disprove the available data.

AFAIK I can vouch for my 1.4 punto that I have done 0-80 kmph in approx 10 secs couple of times on empty ORR in Bangalore right after waiting at a stop signal. (the feeling of doing it when you are at the pole position is thrilling) Getting to a 100 kmph has been a challenge as one more hump or signal would come up ahead. So no way I would just blindly believe these numbers from auto mags.

The reason being the so called professional people testing any cars are not some F1 calibre drivers, they are just good auto journalists (not some certified and quick and efficient drivers). And definitely no two humans can drive the same. And further they would test any car probably for a report in the next weeks edition of the mag maybe twice or thrice and report that number. I sincerely doubt if they even do it multiple times. Leave alone thrice I wouldn't be surprised if they do it just once and report.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by TC_aashay

As for the 1.4 performance goes, try sitting with a owner who is used to drive his 1.4 FIRE at the red line (be it a Punto or a Linea). If possible sit with a stop watch.
No matter how many 0-100 runs you do... the majority of the runs with a proper launch, it will never be more than 15 seconds. The best ones should be in the 14 seconds barrier.

Stopwatch method is very unreliable, I checked out my Punto Multijet's 0-100 time using stop watch and i could manage under 14 seconds time, with tires loosing traction in second gear. I am confident i could have managed 12 seconds time in a Swift D, but the fact is this is very unreliable method. I did it just for fun sake.

If you add another passenger in the car, you will be spoiling PTW ratio.

The only thing responsible for slow acceleration times in Punto and Linea is messed up gearbox with poorly sorted ratios, i feel this gearbox is a carryover from Palio, Pls confirm. The Ratios and Gearbox feel is not in the league of Swift D.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

Stopwatch method is very unreliable, I checked out my Punto Multijet's 0-100 time using stop watch and i could manage under 14 seconds time, with tires loosing traction in second gear. I am confident i could have managed 12 seconds time in a Swift D, but the fact is this is very unreliable method. I did it just for fun sake.

If you add another passenger in the car, you will be spoiling PTW ratio.

The only thing responsible for slow acceleration times in Punto and Linea is messed up gearbox with poorly sorted ratios, i feel this gearbox is a carryover from Palio, Pls confirm. The Ratios and Gearbox feel is not in the league of Swift D.

Yes the stop watch method isnt the most reliable around but I can bet that the time wouldn't be off by 3-4 seconds!

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

According to Autocar India (July 2010 issue) data, the 0 to 100 kmph times for Linea and Punto are:

Linea 1.4: 15.14s
Linea MJD: 15.04s
Punto 1.4: 16.58s
Punto MJD: 17.84s...

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

I. Look at the numbers from Overdrive Magazine (Jan 2010 issue, for example). 0-100 kmph times according to them are:

Linea 1.4: 15.2s
Linea MJD: 15.6s
Punto 1.4: 18.1s
Punto MJD: 18.7s...

-AD

The funny part is the time difference between ACI, OD and zigwheels timings. Zigwheels' 0-100 for the 1.4 is 14.2s. All these guys are professionals (Or atleast are supposed to be)

[Guna]

I just picked up latest issue of ACI and found an article about 90 bhp Punto.
Surprisingly with all the additional 15 BHPs, it is only 1.5 seconds faster to 0-100 with very identical in gear acceleration figures.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by Guna

I just picked up latest issue of ACI and found an article about 90 bhp Punto.
Surprisingly with all the additional 15 BHPs, it is only 1.5 seconds faster to 0-100 with very identical in gear acceleration figures.

What is the time given for the 90HP Punto ? Is it compared to ACI's figure of 17.84 for the regular Punto ? So i'm guessing as per ACI the 90HP Punto should take around 16s ?

PS: Sorry for the double posts. Have already reported it to the mods

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

What is the time given for the 90HP Punto ? Is it compared to ACI's figure of 17.84 for the regular Punto ? So i'm guessing as per ACI the 90HP Punto should take around 16s ?

PS: Sorry for the double posts. Have already reported it to the mods

I am taking the ACI report with a pinch of salt, I'll take the test-drive myself (after having driven the "normal" 1.3MJD over a significant period of time) before saying much about this. In fact, it'd be great if GTO can turn in a report, mainly because it'll give us the exact difference.

By the way, got to check out a 2010 Punto for the first time, the interiors are significantly improved in texture and though still short of the i20 in terms of fit, feel is right up there.