[dr.surgeon1985]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Yup, that would be like having your cake & eating it as well Did forget about it, thanks for pointing out.

Eagerly awaiting to td the linea 1.6 mjd. That would be a killer combination of a superb engine, great handling, great highway dynamics and stunning looks.

Or am I dreaming

[khoj]

We are all dreaming! I want it to come equipped with an automatic gearbox

BTW, when I took TDs of the Vento siblings last year, I personally found the petrol to be noisier than the diesel. This however could be attributed to my being attuned to the buttery smooth 2.0 litre petrol of the Cedia which set the NVH benchmark far beyond the reach of Vento petrol. The diesel was expected to clatter, which it did but not unduly so. That said the Jetta diesel is far more refined both with the bonnet open as well as while being driven. If VW wants it can definitely refine the Vento a la Jetta.

Originally Posted by dr.surgeon1985

Eagerly awaiting to td the linea 1.6 mjd. That would be a killer combination of a superb engine, great handling, great highway dynamics and stunning looks.

Or am I dreaming

[souravc]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Secondly, Verna makes 126bhp @ 4,000rpm vs the Vento's 104 @ 4,400rpm. That's a huge difference.

Torque will come into play when lugging at lower rpm but when you're out on the open road, outright power is what you need.

While there is no question of the NVH levels of Hyundai CRDI mills being far better than the TDi , having owned a Vento which is clocking 50,000 km and having driven the Verna and Elantra for close to around 200 kms (E-way and palm beach road if you know Mumbai) I beg to differ on the power aspect . Specs aside , the Hyundais are not as fast as the TDis straight line or otherwise. Maybe its got to do with the transmission or efficiency of it but specs are deceptive here . I have also driven around 1500 kms in 2013 ford mondeo in the autobahns of Germany - I was missing my Vento, the tdci is no match for it .

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Now the word breathless doesn't mean that there's no performance on tap, just that the engine feels strained/stress at highway speeds and not effortless. This is probably nothing to do with the engine and may have to do with the shorter gearing on the Vento vs the Verna's taller gear ratios. I'm not even considering the other advantage of the Verna which is the 6th gear. Even if you take 5, the Verna ratios feel taller.

I do drive a lot on highways , usually on good ones like NH4, E-way, Mumbai -Udaipur via Ahmedabad, etc . Engine feeling strained/ stressed is the last thing that I can associate with Vento , on the contrary the tdi seems to roll on endlessly on the power band . I have to also disagree with your comment on the supposed shorter gear ratio of the vento due to the following facts:- 1. The tdi returns fabulous mileage which is impossible to achieve with short gear ratio
2 . The vento's peak power is at a higher rpm vis-a-vis Verna ( 4400 vs 4000) - these are definitely not the characteristic of a car with a short gear ratio .
I could not get the exact ratios for a comparo but I doubt the Vento gear ratio would be meaningfully shorter than the Vernas given that it is delivering peak power at a higher rpm than the Verna . In fact its managing with 4 what Verna is managing with 5 so the ratios have to be spread out for sure given that its got to reach an incremental rpm of 400 as compared to Verna with one gear less to reach peak power output - I am assuming here that by design peak power is being delivered one gear below the top gear under safe driving conditions .

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by souravc

I have also driven around 1500 kms in 2013 ford mondeo in the autobahns of Germany - I was missing my Vento, the tdci is no match for it .

You might have driven the 1.6LTDCi with 115ps. The power to weight ratio of the Mondeo is less than the vento and hence its slower but only by a very small margin. But I believe the refinement and NVH of the 1.6L Tdci is way better than VW's 1.6L TDi. The Mondeo with 2.0 TDCi is way faster and a better handler than the Vento.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by souravc

......I could not get the exact ratios for a comparo but I doubt the Vento gear ratio would be meaningfully shorter than the Vernas given that it is delivering peak power at a higher rpm than the Verna . In fact its managing with 4 what Verna is managing with 5 so the ratios have to be spread out for sure given that its got to reach an incremental rpm of 400 as compared to Verna with one gear less to reach peak power output - I am assuming here that by design peak power is being delivered one gear below the top gear under safe driving conditions .

Shorter gear ratios have nothing to do with peak power RPM. Shorter ratios enable faster acceleration, but limit the top speed (The Pajero SFX is a prime example of this).

If the torque curve is broad enough you need lesser number of gears as there will be more RPM band in the torque band.

[Mpower]

Good Morning gentlemen. oops...just realizing that this is a Vento lovers thread : )

OK firstly I'm not saying that the Verna is the best 1.6. I am just contesting that the Vento is 'not the best' because it lacking in some areas.
Both engines have +s and -ves and so neither is best of everything. A perfect highway car would have the Hyundai 1.6 inside a Vento chassis

I drove both cars on the same day while travelling in a convoy. My driving was 90% highway where the Hyundai engine shone and the Vento paled in comparison. I am sure the tables are turned in the city and I have already mentioned it.

Now to the crux of the matter. Once the Hyundai comes 'on boost', there is no contest. It revvs sweetly like a petrol & packs a mean punch. In comparison, the VW feels 'short of breath' in the higher rpms (hence the term breathless). Keep in mind its not breathless period, but breathless in comparison to the Verna. For example a Fiesta classic D would be breathless compared to a Vento.

I wasn't measuring acceleration times or racing with the other car so it maybe true that the tdi is ultimately faster in 0-100 but that does not matter because it was the Verna that was a joy to drive (70-120)

I have already admitted that Verna suffers from lag in the city so please don't counter my point once again.

Originally Posted by newtonMeter

Breathless !! What a joke diesel should not be revvy my friend. TDI meets the business end between 1500 and. 2500 rpm, where the verna is caught napping

Really sir? Says who lol? Maybe for a Tata 407 sure !

A more accurate statement would be, Diesels are 'generally not revvy' & are 'unable' to revv.

Have you driven the latest diesels from BMW? There is something called swirl flap technology that enables them to revv higher

Fact is the Hyundai feels revvy like a petrol turbo on the highway while the VW feels 'truckish'

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Shouldn't it be Vento 1.6 TDi, as it spools up 250 NM torque right at 1500 rpm compared to Verna 1.6 at 1900 rpm. VW 1.6 TDi keep delivering 250 Nm till 2500 rpm where as Verna just lasts for 850 rpm 1900~2750. By the time Verna is reaching up to it, Vento would have already gone past it, up in next gear.

Lets leave numbers aside and go take a TD in a Verna on an open road.

Secondly you dont have to drive 120+ to have fun. I was gunning it from 70 - 120 and having a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by dr.surgeon1985

Breathless??? The tdi is quite clattery but never short of power. It has a very strong mid range. Just need to floor the accelerator and thump it goes, easy to complete an overtaking manoeuvre. Verna is a lot unsteady on highways. The vento engine is not as REFINED as the verna but definitely makes up for it with its great mid range

Which is exactly what I also said right? Except the adjective 'breathless' has offended Vento owners.

Originally Posted by Warwithwheels

Relevant excerpts of GTO's review from the first page of the thread. Please re read it and continue the discussion

The technology bar is being raised all the time.

I can probably find you some ACI articles from 10 years ago where they said the Accent 1.5 is the best C seg diesel ever

[dr.surgeon1985]

If one is able to bear with the swaggery nature of the Verna past 120kms, then it would be a better option, for me it felt so unsteady and scary that i felt i couldnt put the extra 20 bhp to good use.

whatever dude, Vento aint breathless. its got as much O2 as you could possibly find in usain bolts lungs. I rest my argument. Cheers.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by Mpower

I wasn't measuring acceleration times or racing with the other car so it maybe true that the tdi is ultimately faster in 0-100 but that does not matter because it was the Verna that was a joy to drive (at & under 120)

I have already admitted that Verna suffers from lag in the city so please don't counter my point once again.


Fact is the Hyundai feels revvy like a petrol turbo on the highway while the VW feels 'truckish'

Actually, the Verna is faster than the Vento to 100. And yes, Verna does suffer from lag (but a lot better than my i20 crdi). The Verna feels scary at speeds greater than 100 (especially on uneven/undulating roads). But, the Vento also has some bobbing, especially the front suspension. The Rapid is much better tuned than the vento from my experience. Ultimately what's best depends on one's requirement. If it's refinement, along with good service and interiors buy the Verna. If its good handling and interiors, but not so good NVH, buy the Vento. For a little better handling and drivability but suspect service, buy the rapid. For excellent handling & refinement, but less power & average interiors, buy the Fiesta. I thought about all these when buying a C segment sedan and ended up with the Rapid. Well, actually all my reasoning was thrown into the trash can and the main reason was that the Rapid was the only one available with Flash Red (and wifey was adamant on Red).

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by souravc

Specs aside , the Hyundais are not as fast as the TDis straight line or otherwise. Maybe its got to do with the transmission or efficiency of it but specs are deceptive here.

Verna not as fast is based on some statistics or just driving both? Back to back driving of both tell a different story to many many people. And by fast I'm not saying 5th gear from 60kmph roll on.

2 . The vento's peak power is at a higher rpm vis-a-vis Verna ( 4400 vs 4000) - these are definitely not the characteristic of a car with a short gear ratio .
I could not get the exact ratios for a comparo but I doubt the Vento gear ratio would be meaningfully shorter than the Vernas given that it is delivering peak power at a higher rpm than the Verna . In fact its managing with 4 what Verna is managing with 5 so the ratios have to be spread out for sure given that its got to reach an incremental rpm of 400 as compared to Verna with one gear less to reach peak power output - I am assuming here that by design peak power is being delivered one gear below the top gear under safe driving conditions .

I did not understand this part at all. What does peak power output have to do with gear ratios? Shorter gear ratios result in better driveability in city but you lose out on the highway. The Verna has taller ratios which give it an advantage on the highway but the Vento gear ratios are tuned for overall performance both in city and highway. But on the highway you do notice that small compromise for better city driveability.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by shivasuma

Actually, the Verna is faster than the Vento to 100. And yes, Verna does suffer from lag (but a lot better than my i20 crdi). The Verna feels scary at speeds greater than 100 (especially on uneven/undulating roads)

Thanks for the clarification on 0-100

True, its underdamped and on wavy road surfaces it can be a handful esp if you have people and luggage in the boot. Fellow mod bblost was nauseated in the back seat and told me to stop so that he could move to the front

But frankly on well paved roads, it did not bob around at all

Another + point about the Verna is shift quality of the 6 sp box. Super slick and short throw...a joy to use....reminded me of a Miata.

That alone can make you forgive the lag because going down a gear can be a pleasure

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by Mpower

But frankly on well paved roads, it did not bob around at all

Another + point about the Verna is shift quality of the 6 sp box. Super slick and short throw...a joy to use....reminded me of a Miata.

I agree with both the points. When I drove the Verna what impressed me was the shift quality and the engine refinement.
Its not a great handler but average. Coming from a Polo, I don't think I would have complained much had I bought it. Hyundai must have retuned that suspension after all the boat like handling reviews.

[Warwithwheels]

You should blame it on Ford! The Figo's pure hydraulic unit has spoilt me, Totally

I just can't come to terms with the Verna's steering and suspension setup, no matter how refined or powerful the engine is.

It's something akin to having a 4K resolution video stored on your phone that has a monochrome display No matter how good the quality of the video is, you just can't play it the on monochrome display.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by khoj

BTW, when I took TDs of the Vento siblings last year, I personally found the petrol to be noisier than the diesel. This however could be attributed to my being attuned to the buttery smooth 2.0 litre petrol of the Cedia which set the NVH benchmark far beyond the reach of Vento petrol.

Sorry, you are mistaken in your observation, khoj-ji. Even the most rabid of Vento fans will agree that the TDI lacks in refinement. On the other hand the petrol is completely noiseless from the inside- the engine noise only really becomes audible (uncomfortably so) when you rev it past 4000 rpm.

On the stock Aceleres, the tyre noise drowned out everything else, after I upgraded to Yoko dBs even that is a thing of the past. When idling, the compressor noise from the AC is really annoying from the outside (totally drowned out in the TDI). But the engine per se is a quiet beast

[khoj]

Hi noopster, my observations are based on the TD experience and limited to the same as far as the petrol vehicle is concerned. I did attribute the excessive noise to something being amiss under the hood however the sales executive was adamant that all of the petrol examples were the same in this regard and honestly once we shut the doors I did not discuss it further. On the inside, yes it was quiet.

Originally Posted by noopster

But the engine per se is a quiet beast

[Blackbolt]

Wow, last few pages on the tread have really fired up this forum.

Both Vento and Verna have their positives and negatives. I TD both the cars and went for the vento cause I wanted the chassis to match the engine, the car had to be stable at high speed on highways.

Verna had a lot going for it with awesome list of equipment,(dare I say more refined , I will say) quieter cabin , silky smooth steering wheel. It has a much better A.S.S. and network. (Btw how much does the Hyundai service cost?)

After owning the car for more than one year do I feel I have made a wrong choice, ? Nah not one bit. U have to spend time with it, u need to go down every 6mths apply WD40 on the doors without which the car can't live. U have to deal with thugs at VW showrooms. And the stupid kick back of suspension at speeds on breakers, not to mention the mud flaps which give u scare of your life if u haven't read about them bottoming out.

But when u have the pedal to the metal and that nicely weighed steering giving u all the confidence u need all is forgotten. I can't do that in a Verna at all it's like a boat at high speeds (even at 100 kmph)

Had I chosen the Vento if I was buying the car for my dad? Not at all, Verna would have been the obvious choice then. It depends what u want from the car.

Add to the fact that u can tune this car and the chassis is capable of taking the extra power as someone rightly said on the forum earlier.

Cheers!