[EARTHed]

Behram Sir,
Thats really sad news. As you have said before, these days we don't find such great teachers and neither there are students like you who are so eager to learn.

Anyways, a million dollar thanks to you for giving all we FIATians so much of support and knowledge. You are undoubtedly THE FIAT GURU for all of us.

[Scarlet_Rider]

Hello All,

We purchased a PPL Viceroy (November 1997 model) two months back. Wanted to know the detailed working / purpose of the black canister like device (attached to the fuel system) shown in the pictures below.

More pictures of the car are on the Viceroy thread : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2320092

Regards and Keep Revving,

Rahul Waghmare.

[adheesh]

I believe thats the fuel vapor separator. Mr Dhabhar had posted about it some time ago. I've pasted the same post for you.

Dear all - HaHaHa, even within my tight schedule, I think these queries merit a reply. I have to give you complete details of the solution to the problem of "hot weather percolation" for you to understand and appreciate the "Vapour Separator" syndrome. So, here goes.

The car was introduced in January 1987 in the market. During those days, the parts were all imported from NISSAN Japan. The origional carburettor was HITACHI. It did not have any fuel return system. It had a cylinder block mounted mechanical fuel pump, a metallic fuel line passing just behind the engine fan with two small flexible pipes at the pump outlet and carburettor ends. We had introduced a fuel filter supplied by NISSAN just before the mechanical fuel pump. The fuel pipes were 6 mm in diameter. With this system, the car had tremendous fuel feed issues due to a phenomenon called "percolation" which prevented fuel from reaching the carburettor as the fuel would turn to vapour in the fuel lines / filter / pump. I was told to solve this problem in April 1988. I solved it on 12 May 1988. During those days, 118NEs used to take upto 5 hours to go from Khopoli to Lonavla, a distance of 7 kms due to persistent stalling. On 12 May 1988, I covered these 7 kms in 6 minutes, the car went up the slopes like a bomb. There used to be "self styled mechanics" standing on the ghat road who used to make a quick buck from people whose 118NEs used to stall. They knew my brown test car MGQ8174 which was the only 118NE in those days which did not stall on the ghat. They used to ask me for the solution. The solution was to provide optimized and correctly oriented fuel return system alongwith a full time operational electronic fuel pump, delivering 980 cc per minute. Therefore, I had to shift the rear portion of the exhaust system from the RH side to the LH side so that I could mount the electronic fuel pump in the underfloor area. Therefore, in later models of 118NEs, you see two relief curves in the rear panel in front of the rear bumper. The RH cut was used for diesel cars and the LH cut was used for petrol cars. The fuel pipe goes from the fuel tank to a fuel filter mounted underfloor instead of in the engine compartment, the electronic fuel pump is mounted at 15 degrees angle in the rear floor area. Instead of the return tee at the carburettor, you can use the vapour separator but it is not absolutely essential. The vapour separator is nothing but a tee connection with 20 cc of volume built into it with a small ball valve used as a non-return valve. It was suggested by Pierburg in February 1989 and it was given to me for testing. I was told to test it with the mechanical fuel pump. I informed that it will not work for which I was fired. Finally, I went for the test, stalled the car and came back. My explanation was simple - "Sir, vapour separator will work if there is vapour in the fuel. THat means that there should be some liquid fuel from which you separate vapour. If there is only 100% vapour, what will you separate"? Nobody listened to me. Therefore HaHaha.

IF ANYTHING IS CHANGED IN THIS SYSTEM, THE CAR WILL NOT WORK. After I left PAL in 1994 and joined M&M, during 1996, Peugeot engineers who were handling the 118NE at that time thought of eliminating somethings. I remember that I went to Kalyan plant one day and told them that "if you remove this connection, the car will stop at the second curve / if you change this dimension, the fuel temperature inside the carburettor will increase by these many degrees centigrade". They were amazed and promised me that they would not change anything.

I suggest you check the complete plumbing and see that your car confirms. During LPG / CNG fitting, somebody would have done all nonsensical things which will make your life miserable now.

As far as the Mikunin carburettor is concerned, I suggest you open it and overhaul it completely. Prolonged period of non use ruins the internals. All parts for Mikuni are available. Please use Zen / Esteem venturis as they come as close to the original ones as possible.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by adheesh

I believe thats the fuel vapor separator.

Adheesh & Scarlet, It is not a vapour separator. It is a vapour canister or purge canister, used for reduction of evaporative emissions from the fuel tank. It is a box with some charcoal in it. As seen in the picture there are 3 hoes connected to the box and atleast 1 of them is going to a solenoid and then to the intake manifold or near the carburetor.

Hose 1. There is a hose coming from the top of the fuel tank that brings accumulated fuel vapours into this box.
Hose 2. Brings in clean air or hot air from external environment
Hose 3. Goes to the intake through a solenoid.

This way we can capture the vapours from the fuel tank and use them for combustion. I think this system came mandatory from 1996.
For further reading:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h62.pdf

Originally Posted by adheesh

I believe thats the fuel vapor separator.

Adheesh & Scarlet, It is not a vapour separator. It is a vapour canister or purge canister, used for reduction of evaporative emissions from the fuel tank. It is a box with some charcoal in it. As seen in the picture there are 3 hoes connected to the box and atleast 1 of them is going to a solenoid and then to the intake manifold or near the carburetor.

Hose 1. There is a hose coming from the top of the fuel tank that brings accumulated fuel vapours into this box.
Hose 2. Brings in clean air or hot air from external environment
Hose 3. Goes to the intake through a solenoid.

This way we can capture the vapours from the fuel tank and use them for combustion. I think this system came mandatory from 1996. Attached picrure shows a vapor separator in an old VW polo. THe 118 NE vapour separator looks the same, but black in color. Once when I needed this part, I had a tough time explainng the spare-part shopkeeper. Finally he recognized it as "Theen moowala filter", though in reality it is not a filter. And I didnt have the patience to explain him in detail.
For further reading:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h62.pdf

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Ilangop - you are correct. I had only done this system in 1993, just before I left PAL. It is the "Evaporative Emission Control System". It was tested in the EECS chamber in ARAI which is located exactly opposite the emission testing laboratory which houses the chassis dynamometers.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[adheesh]

Originally Posted by ilangop

Adheesh & Scarlet, It is not a vapour separator. It is a vapour canister or purge canister, used for reduction of evaporative emissions from the fuel tank. It is a box with some charcoal in it. As seen in the picture there are 3 hoes connected to the box and atleast 1 of them is going to a solenoid and then to the intake manifold or near the carburetor.

Hose 1. There is a hose coming from the top of the fuel tank that brings accumulated fuel vapours into this box.
Hose 2. Brings in clean air or hot air from external environment
Hose 3. Goes to the intake through a solenoid.

This way we can capture the vapours from the fuel tank and use them for combustion. I think this system came mandatory from 1996.
For further reading:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h62.pdf

Adheesh & Scarlet, It is not a vapour separator. It is a vapour canister or purge canister, used for reduction of evaporative emissions from the fuel tank. It is a box with some charcoal in it. As seen in the picture there are 3 hoes connected to the box and atleast 1 of them is going to a solenoid and then to the intake manifold or near the carburetor.

Hose 1. There is a hose coming from the top of the fuel tank that brings accumulated fuel vapours into this box.
Hose 2. Brings in clean air or hot air from external environment
Hose 3. Goes to the intake through a solenoid.

This way we can capture the vapours from the fuel tank and use them for combustion. I think this system came mandatory from 1996. Attached picrure shows a vapor separator in an old VW polo. THe 118 NE vapour separator looks the same, but black in color. Once when I needed this part, I had a tough time explainng the spare-part shopkeeper. Finally he recognized it as "Theen moowala filter", though in reality it is not a filter. And I didnt have the patience to explain him in detail.
For further reading:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h62.pdf

Sorry !! My bad, I was completely wrong on this

[manishalive]

A download link for the Fiat 1100 -1100D shop manual has been provided here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...ml#post2429917

This is a good read for all the Fiat fans. Not for those who know by heart .

[ilangop]

Hope this helps you while restoring your beauties.

[samsag12]

I need help regarding a speedometer problem that i am facing lately. Actually i got the speedo cable of my S1 replaced a couple of days back, also got the meter changed to Konkorde (clock type). Now the issue is that the needle while running fluctuates a lot and lacks the precise reading. For confirmation i tried with another Konkorde meter i had but still the problem persists.
Fiatians please help me in this regard finding a solution to my problem .

PS: If somebody has any schematic of the wiring coupler of Konkorde meter please do share. I hope 118NE manual has the diagram of same which can be of use as the meters are very identical.

[adheesh]

Originally Posted by samsag12

I need help regarding a speedometer problem that i am facing lately. Actually i got the speedo cable of my S1 replaced a couple of days back, also got the meter changed to Konkorde (clock type). Now the issue is that the needle while running fluctuates a lot and lacks the precise reading. For confirmation i tried with another Konkorde meter i had but still the problem persists.
Fiatians please help me in this regard finding a solution to my problem .

PS: If somebody has any schematic of the wiring coupler of Konkorde meter please do share. I hope 118NE manual has the diagram of same which can be of use as the meters are very identical.

It is not the speedometer, its the speedometer cable at fault. Mostly happens when the cable is 'stretched' out of specifications due to incorrect fitment or storage. The solution is replacement. However, do check the following :
1. Both the ends of cable should be aligned correctly. There's a knack to fit these cables, any old-timer mechanic should be able to help you with this. There would be a small rubber mat over the passenger side of the drive-train tunnel. Remove it and you'll see the cable adapter on the gearbox.
2. Lubricate the cable. Use standard engine oil, not grease.
3. The outer protective covering and the inner cable should be aligned correctly. Slightest of twist and you'll encounter the above said problem. Hence, as put in point 1, elongation of the inner cable also leads to the same.

Hope this helps
Regards,
Adheesh

[samsag12]

Thanks a lot Adheesh for pointing out the suspected culprit. BTW i need some clarifications on few points Hope you don't mind:

1. Is there any identification as to which end will go to the GB and meter.
2. Does the lubrication be done to whole cable i.e. should i take the cable out of its outer cover to lube it with a used engine oil.
3. Any pointers on the Knack of fitting it.
4. Though i got the cable routed to the GB as it was previously, is there any specific path which the cable has to follow.
5. Last but not the least, if all the above fails which i am highly suspecting, which brand of cable is good to use. I hope NE meter cable fits the Konkorde as this is the one which the electrician told will fit on this type of meter. I just hope he's correct.

[adheesh]

Originally Posted by samsag12

Thanks a lot Adheesh for pointing out the suspected culprit. BTW i need some clarifications on few points Hope you don't mind:

1. Is there any identification as to which end will go to the GB and meter.
2. Does the lubrication be done to whole cable i.e. should i take the cable out of its outer cover to lube it with a used engine oil.
3. Any pointers on the Knack of fitting it.
4. Though i got the cable routed to the GB as it was previously, is there any specific path which the cable has to follow.
5. Last but not the least, if all the above fails which i am highly suspecting, which brand of cable is good to use. I hope NE meter cable fits the Konkorde as this is the one which the electrician told will fit on this type of meter. I just hope he's correct.

1. Well, as far as I know, no. Both the ends are identical.
2. Just squirt some engine oil a few times from the speedometer end of the cable.
3. The idea is that the cable along with the speedometer and gearbox ends must be straight without any twists. The inner and outer cable should be in-line with each other to facilitate free movement.
4. I guess not.
5. Here, I have absolutely no clue. I definately know that the cable design varied between 55's/57's/Selects & SuperSelects and Padmini cables don't work on these cars. I guess the later Delights, Presidents and Padminis with regular console must be sharing a common speedometer cable.

Regards,
Adheesh

[samsag12]

I need some guidance on the PP S1 suspension part. Recently my car's left suspension lower arm nut got snapped along with the thread. I consulted the matter with a mechanic and he says that the entire lower arm has to be replaced if the thread on which the nut screws is broken.
Today while going through the PP service manual i couldn't locate any sort of thread attached to the arm. Now i am a little confused about this so guys please do help me out.
Also if i have to get the arm replaced there would be difference in bush size as the present ones are 1st oversize ones and replaced one would be a standard one. I hope the car's stance won't be compromised.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Samsag - the "nut" you are talking about is a part of the "spider kit" of the front suspension. This is an extremely critical part of the vehicle and needs to be assembled as per FIAT process on a bench before fitting on the car. I'll need to type out the complete procedure and post it. I'll try and do it soon. If not done properly, your car's suspension / steering performance will go completely out of control. Please do not do anything ALTU FALTU in the meantime. Just hold on till I give you the procedure.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[samsag12]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Samsag - the "nut" you are talking about is a part of the "spider kit" of the front suspension. This is an extremely critical part of the vehicle and needs to be assembled as per FIAT process on a bench before fitting on the car. I'll need to type out the complete procedure and post it. I'll try and do it soon. If not done properly, your car's suspension / steering performance will go completely out of control. Please do not do anything ALTU FALTU in the meantime. Just hold on till I give you the procedure.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Will definitely hold on till you pen down the correct procedure Dhabhar sir. As a precaution the car has not seen roads from the past 6 days as i don't want to invite any further damage.