[funkykar]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

They got submerged in the Mumbai floods which came in June 1990 and also between 08 to 10 June 1991 when the whole plant was under water for 3 days and 1700 cars were completely submerged upto the roof (chassis numbers starting from 55).

Sir, Arun read your post and wanted some details of his 1991 Economy. Car was delivered on Feb 07 1991 by Manickbag Automobiles, Hubli.

PP Economy Details:
BODY No. PA - 555164
ENGINE No. PA - F130679



How to decode the BODY No. and ENGINE No. of Premier Padmini? Can we know what variant the car is by reading the above details?

Was this car also affected by floods?

TEACH US!

THANKS FOR ALL THE PRICELESS INFORMATION YOU SHARE HERE!

[samsag12]

Thanks a lot Dhabhar sir for providing the assistance. I have picked a wiper motor from scrapyard previously and i doubt it being suitable for S1. Don't know in which direction it moves. Guess i have to get it checked by a electrician. Or is there any other way to check the same.
Regarding the SPARK PLUG WIRES how can one identify the type of wires i.e. whether Carbon core or metal core.

[funkykar]

Originally Posted by samsag12

Regarding the SPARK PLUG WIRES how can one identify the type of wires i.e. whether Carbon core or metal core.

This question has been haunting me since quite some time.

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Karthik - the spark plug wires are for the Padmini but they are not original. I had designed this set also. The length of the spark plug wire of cylinder number 1 is 410 mm. The solder on the eye terminals may not be OK. The plug end covers of such wires are made of natural rubber which does not take the cylinder head heat. PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

These are the best possible plug wires available in Bangalore. Please advice which make/brand and where to source good quality/original ones. For now, I have no choice but these

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

There are a lot of differences between the standard cylinder head and the S1 cylinder head. The intake and exhaust ports have been reconfigured for additional swirl. The casting is different to accommodate the additional material required due to design shift of the kinematic positioning of the valve train operating mechanism. This is because the rocker ratio is reduced and the train is strengthened. You will observe that the rockers of the S1 are different. The valve stem diameter is reduced by 1 mm. The valve train can be used only with the S1 camshaft, which has bigger diameter bushes supporting it in the cylinder block. The cooling system performance is enhanced by repositioning the coolant jackets in the cylinder head. The design protects both Solex and Mikuni carburettors but optimal power is obtained with Mikuni only, due to twin throttle availability. Therefore, the water pump pulley diameter of the S1 engine is different. The intake manifold supports a charge heating port. The exhaust system has been reconfigured to allow the additional swirl to be effective. The cooling system has been upgraded to reduce inertia. The alternator mounting bracket has been redesigned to eliminate the second harmonic frequency vibrations. The flywheel inertia is reworked, therefore the S1 delivers the desired performance parameters only if mated to the NISSAN F4W56A transmission, although the old transmission is protected in the design. The design was processed with positive crankcase ventilation system and evaporative emission control system but were these were not included in the initial lot of cars as they became mandatory only in 1996 when pre Euro1" norms became effective.

There are only 2 locations where all this data is stored, one is RDS/90/PP1, the other is inside my head. I have mentioned only the essential few to you for your information.

I AM A PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT / VEHICLE TEST ENGINEER. I HAVE THE BEST JOB IN THE WORLD. .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

PS - I see many people wasting money trying to "convert" regular engines to S1. It should not be attempted because it cannot be done.

Dear Sir,

Hope you are well. The engine has been successfully rebuilt. I would like you to know that a S1 cylinder head has been used on this engine. The only thing that needed to be modified were the valve guides. The intake and exhaust manifolds are also the ones from a S1. The camshaft needed to be replaced as it has bent in one place, so the cam that is now on the car is a cam that came on the older cars and not from the S1. The car has also been fitted with a new oil pump as the old one stopped working. Just thought i would update you on it. The car is owned by team bhp member. He will update everyone on how the car is running.

Thank you sir for your guidance.

Warm Regards

Indrojit Sircar

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Dear Indrojit Sircar - thank you for your comments.This will be a first "mix and match" engine. Let's see how it runs.The push rods must not touch the head, if there is minor interference, you will not even know but designwise both are not interchangeable.

Dear Karthik / Samsag12 - on spark plug wires, metal core wires will have a disc soldered at the distributor cap end with plastic screw on type terminals. Carbon core wires will have push on type terminals. Therefore distributor cap for both wires are different. Original metal core wires have a dual code insulation. The outer cover is black, while the inner insulator is pink in colour. Aftermarket wires do not have this feature. The spark plug end of the original wires will feature a spring steel "C" clip fitted on 2 metallic dimples pressed on the crimp assembly. The open end of the "C" clip must be in the closed side of the main terminal. Aftermarket wires will not have good life and insulation, so life will be less. I pick up original wires from my scrapwallah whenever I get them. If you ask the shopkeeper for the original wires and explain all the features that I have now showed you, most probably you will get hammered and thrown out of the shop. Therefore, I have stopped explaining things to people. I just pick up what is original and walk out. It's better that way.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[samsag12]

Dhabhar sir can you please identify (if possible) the type of wires installed in my S1. These are the wires which were replaced after the original ones burnt out.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Indrojit Sircar - thank you for your comments.This will be a first "mix and match" engine. Let's see how it runs.The push rods must not touch the head, if there is minor interference, you will not even know but designwise both are not interchangeable.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Dear sir,

as i mentioned the owner is a Team bhp member and will be soon updating everyone with his report on how the car drives. Will keep you posted on the developments on the car.

Regards

Indrojit

[kavesh55]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Indrojit Sircar - thank you for your comments.This will be a first "mix and match" engine. Let's see how it runs.The push rods must not touch the head, if there is minor interference, you will not even know but designwise both are not interchangeable.

Dear Karthik / Samsag12 - on spark plug wires, metal core wires will have a disc soldered at the distributor cap end with plastic screw on type terminals. Carbon core wires will have push on type terminals. Therefore distributor cap for both wires are different. Original metal core wires have a dual code insulation. The outer cover is black, while the inner insulator is pink in colour. Aftermarket wires do not have this feature. The spark plug end of the original wires will feature a spring steel "C" clip fitted on 2 metallic dimples pressed on the crimp assembly. The open end of the "C" clip must be in the closed side of the main terminal. Aftermarket wires will not have good life and insulation, so life will be less. I pick up original wires from my scrapwallah whenever I get them. If you ask the shopkeeper for the original wires and explain all the features that I have now showed you, most probably you will get hammered and thrown out of the shop. Therefore, I have stopped explaining things to people. I just pick up what is original and walk out. It's better that way.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Confused. Will have to see to understand, but for that will have to meet you. That is another feat in itself.

[funkykar]

I just wanted to know if the Palio's stock steel rims are a direct fit to 118NE. I see that even in Palio, there are a couple of guide pins for each wheel.

[adheesh]

Originally Posted by funkykar

I just wanted to know if the Palio's stock steel rims are a direct fit to 118NE. I see that even in Palio, there are a couple of guide pins for each wheel.

The PCD is same. Swift rims are a direct fit (well, almost, you need to cut the spigot on the drum) on Fiats. The Palio ones would also fit. But why ??

[ilangop]

Karthik,
Palio & 118 NE share the same PCD and hub size. So no problem in shuffling the rims. But, I think Palio comes with a 165/XX/R14 tyre. So you might have to find an appropriate 14" tyre for your NE.
Adeesh,
Is is not that the swift has a 100 PCD rim? Many of the alloy wheel sellers very rarely stock 98PCD rims for Fiat vehicles. Atleast this is the case in Pune. Instead they retrofit the 100PCD rims to the FIat's hub, which I strongly believe the rim, hub & the bolts will be much stressed as well the chances that the rim goes offset from the centre is quite more.

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by adheesh

(well, almost, you need to cut the spigot on the drum)

Replacing the spigot with a normal hexagonal head bolt is far simpler.

[funkykar]

Originally Posted by adheesh

The PCD is same. Swift rims are a direct fit (well, almost, you need to cut the spigot on the drum) on Fiats. The Palio ones would also fit. But why ??

Thanks! I have bought myself a new Palio SDX. I have upgraded to alloys and wider tires for it. On my NE, front 2 tires are very new and the rear tires are totally bald (helps in drifting and all ). All the 4 tires on my NE are tubeless. I am not sure if NE rims were designed to hold tubeless or not, but I have never had a problem. Now, I have 5 brand new Palio steel rims. I plan to put all 5 to the NE. Front 2 tires, I will retain, but onto the Palio rims. Rear 2 will be Palio rims and Palio tires.

Originally Posted by ilangop

Karthik,
Palio & 118 NE share the same PCD and hub size. So no problem in shuffling the rims. But, I think Palio comes with a 165/XX/R14 tyre. So you might have to find an appropriate 14" tyre for your NE.
Adeesh,
Is is not that the swift has a 100 PCD rim? Many of the alloy wheel sellers very rarely stock 98PCD rims for Fiat vehicles. Atleast this is the case in Pune. Instead they retrofit the 100PCD rims to the FIat's hub, which I strongly believe the rim, hub & the bolts will be much stressed as well the chances that the rim goes offset from the centre is quite more.

Ilango, luckily Palio Stiles come with 13 inch and not 14 inch. IIRC, the Palio Stile 1.6 may come with 14 inch. Yes, finding the 98 PCD alloys are a herculean task. Its more easily available at Sai Mag Wheels, Delhi. 100 PCD wheels are definitely not recommended for Fiats.

The alloys on my Palio are 98 PCD and also I have installed hub centric rings as suggested by BHPian H14 so that the weight is evenly distributed and not stressing on the lug nuts.

What is the Spigot? Is it the guide pin that we commonly refer to as? The Palio too has 2 guide pins. Would the poisitioning be same like in NE/1100's? Do I need to get the guide pin cut or is it a direct fit?

[adheesh]

Originally Posted by funkykar

I am not sure if NE rims were designed to hold tubeless or not, but I have never had a problem.

What is the Spigot? Is it the guide pin that we commonly refer to as? The Palio too has 2 guide pins. Would the poisitioning be same like in NE/1100's? Do I need to get the guide pin cut or is it a direct fit?

I remember somebody very senior (cannot recollect whom) telling me that the NE rims had some 'lip' and can adapt with tubeless tyres where as Fiat rims cant and need a tube.

The spigot is that very thing which you are referring to as guiding pin. I may be wrong but I dont think the Palio has a spigot. I recollect Indica having it but not the Palio.

Regards,
Adheesh Parelkar

[funkykar]

My NE rims are pretty old and at places rusted. I anyways dont have any plans of re-using the steel rims on my Palio in near future. So, why not use them on the NE is my idea.

Palio Stile definitely has the spigots. In fact 2 of them per wheel. You dont need to cut them to accomodate the alloys, it can simply be removed with help of a spanner.