[Bulldogji]

HI Sanjeev, hope you enjoy years of happy motoring in your Landy. A question. Why is the oil pressure guage in the engine compartment? We had a two door woody stationwagon. Delightful car with more power than the later ambassadors. At the risk of being hammered , I have always felt that the Hindustan ambassador is a unique case of each subsequent model being worse than the earlier model . The mark 1 was so much superior to the mark4/nova.

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

At the risk of being hammered , I have always felt that the Hindustan ambassador is a unique case of each subsequent model being worse than the earlier model . The mark 1 was so much superior to the mark4/nova.

Bulldogji,

I agree with you partially.

To give the devil its due, I would say the Mark I and II till 1969-70 were consistently good. I would say the experimentation with change over from SU to Solex and other things were the start of the downward slide.

But then again there was a brief period form 1976 - 78 the Mark 3s that came out during that period were reasonably consistent in quality and relability.

I agree that Mark 4/Nova's were a far cry to negativity from the Mark I

My two bits

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by rajeev k

Spotted an Amby on the other side of the road. Crossed and clicked couple of pics of this 1968 Amby at Trivandrum yesterday.All original bumpers and grill. dash board is a highway branded one with central AC vents,

The car looks nice.

However, the RTO Records shows the car as 1964 model, and hence a resale in to Kerala in 1968 (number sequence is early 1968, Trivandrum)

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by r_nairtvm

Bulldogji,

I agree with you partially.

To give the devil its due, I would say the Mark I and II till 1969-70 were consistently good. I would say the experimentation with change over from SU to Solex and other things were the start of the downward slide.

But then again there was a brief period form 1976 - 78 the Mark 3s that came out during that period were reasonably consistent in quality and relability.

I agree that Mark 4/Nova's were a far cry to negativity from the Mark I

My two bits

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe


Ram

Till 1968 ambassador had a lot of Made in England stuff like Lucas Headlamps, Smith meters,SU carburretor etc. the replacement local stuff were of lower quality.This is not a problem unique to Amby alone.The Mark1 heralds upto 1965 had better build quality and durability.
Even in the case of a modern car like Maruti 800,there is great difference between pre87 cars and their later versions.
to cite an example:there are cars which still have the original STANLEY SEALED Beam in working condition(with the factory installed bulb) even after 26 years.How many years will a LUMAX or ALpha Toyo Headlight last?
after all cars are the sum total of the parts that go into its making.If the parts are of good quality in all probability the car will also have a long life!

[priyadarshan.b]

Originally Posted by ajay99

Till 1968 ambassador had a lot of Made in England stuff like Lucas Headlamps, Smith meters,SU carburretor etc. the replacement local stuff were of lower quality.This is not a problem unique to Amby alone.The Mark1 heralds upto 1965 had better build quality and durability.
Even in the case of a modern car like Maruti 800,there is great difference between pre87 cars and their later versions.
to cite an example:there are cars which still have the original STANLEY SEALED Beam in working condition(with the factory installed bulb) even after 26 years.How many years will a LUMAX or ALpha Toyo Headlight last?
after all cars are the sum total of the parts that go into its making.If the parts are of good quality in all probability the car will also have a long life!

I agree.. My 1990 Maruti 800 is still going strong on engine (nearing 1,50,000 Km) with mileage closer to 20. I guess its the japanese cast iron block engine. Rest of the parts are not as good as that. I have replaced almost all of the parts other than the engine so far.

Priyadarshan

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by KPS

Fantastic spotting Dr. Anjan, you must be knowing all the Landy's in your region. Guess Dr. Anjan recognized the dashboard first and then made a ID of your car.

Yes true KPS, the blue gauge amidst the two Smiths is unique at least for a Landmaster. That was my first lead.This car was powered by an OHV engine till very recently. He got fitted the side valve and the SU carburettor only a few months ago.

[ajay99]

Talking about deterioration in quality of cars one should also consider the fact the monetary value of cars then and now.A brand new Ambassador cost around Rs.16000/- in 1968 which in purchasing power parity terms would be around Rs.20 laksh or more which is the present price of an upper D segment or entry level Luxury car. So you cannot expect that quality at a much lower price( in real terms)
as the adage goes,''if you give peanuts,you will get only monkeys''

[sanjeevkanjoor]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Yes true KPS, the blue gauge amidst the two Smiths is unique at least for a Landmaster. That was my first lead.This car was powered by an OHV engine till very recently. He got fitted the side valve and the SU carburettor only a few months ago.

I'm glad to know that you know very much about this car. I was not aware that it had an OHV engine. But, I would like to say that although he had put a side valve engine, he had neither fixed it properly nor did he tried to start it. Even the silencer were not fixed. I had fabricated a lot of parts to make it running.Now the car runs perfect - Thanks to my expert mechanic Mr.Surendran!.Apart from the engine and the carb,the suspension,brakes and the steering were overhauled.

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by ajay99

Till 1968 ambassador had a lot of Made in England stuff like Lucas Headlamps, Smith meters,SU carburretor etc.

True. In fact our 1970 June MarkII also had imported SU carb and Lucas headlamps.

Originally Posted by r_nairtvm

However, the RTO Records shows the car as 1964 model, and hence a resale in to Kerala in 1968 (number sequence is early 1968, Trivandrum)

I missed that. Thanks.

Originally Posted by ajay99

Talking about deterioration in quality of cars one should also consider the fact the monetary value of cars then and now.A brand new Ambassador cost around Rs.16000/- in 1968

Valid point. In 1970 the price was some hundreds below Rs22K.

[Bulldogji]

Originally Posted by ajay99

Talking about deterioration in quality of cars one should also consider the fact the monetary value of cars then and now.A brand new Ambassador cost around Rs.16000/- in 1968 which in purchasing power parity terms would be around Rs.20 laksh or more which is the present price of an upper D segment or entry level Luxury car. So you cannot expect that quality at a much lower price( in real terms)
as the adage goes,''if you give peanuts,you will get only monkeys''

Ajay,I must disagree. Who asked the manufacturer to give us Monkeys for Peanuts? Certainly not the customers. Pricing was decided by H M and quite frankly keeping in mind the limited options available at that time, customers would have paid whatever was asked for the cars. The truth is H M was just not bothered about customers. Whatever they produced got sold. Their entire efforts were devoted not to quality control or upgrades, but to lobby with the government to block other car manufacturers from entering the market.

[rajeev k]

There is one interesting point regarding overall quality.
In the 70s guys including mechanics used to say that Ambys in 1962 or around are too good and strong and now it is very bad.
The same guys used to say in the 80s that Ambys were so good in 70s.
This talk on quality and price is only a generic.
It is also quite true that with indegenisation of components like Head lamps, Voltage Regulators, Steering Rack Pinion assy etc, there would have been some reduction in quality.

[mahesh.kolary]

Originally Posted by rajeev k

In the 70s guys including mechanics used to say that Ambys in 1962 or around are too good and strong and now it is very bad.
The same guys used to say in the 80s that Ambys were so good in 70s.

I have heard this many time, with both my dad and the mechie's echoing the statement. I' ve heard them say that the body of the old amby's used to be thicker than the new age ones making them both heavier and durable.
Have heard something like 'They were 18(mm) gauge' or something along those lines. They told me that when they couldn't get the metal of the required thickness for the old amby's (Early 60's), they took the tar drums, flattened it out and then used it. Dunno how much truth is there in all these, all hearsay.

[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by mahesh.kolary

Have heard something like 'They were 18(mm) gauge' or something along those lines. They told me that when they couldn't get the metal of the required thickness for the old amby's (Early 60's), they took the tar drums, flattened it out and then used it. Dunno how much truth is there in all these, all hearsay.

18 is based on standard steel wire(& plate) gauge thickness and 18 is not in mm. This is the SWG thickness of plates or sheets used for the body shell components.
The drum yiu have referred is in fact not tar barrels but oil or grease barrels which are heavier and is less prone to corrosion and was extensively used for tinkering work in that era. Forming shapes is a tougher job with this barrels which have to be cut and straightened first.

[Bulldogji]

Rajeev, You have echoed the point I was making. Mark1 better than mark2, which was better than Mark3 , etc. The Nova body shells were so bad that we used to buy the car and before delivery, ask the dealer to strip the car and re weld all the body joints. This because H M used to only spot weld, that to in minimal places. By this time , the original dye had become very thin , making pressing of new body shells a problem. Lets not forget corrosion issues. Remember the H M Contessa? I had a fender bender with mine. Off to a body shop. Findings? The inner part of the shields had no paint on them. When I brought this to the notice of H M , their reply was unbelievable. ' We only paint panels which are visible' That was H M .

[ajay99]

Originally Posted by Bulldogji

Ajay,I must disagree. Who asked the manufacturer to give us Monkeys for Peanuts? Certainly not the customers. Pricing was decided by H M and quite frankly keeping in mind the limited options available at that time, customers would have paid whatever was asked for the cars. The truth is H M was just not bothered about customers. Whatever they produced got sold. Their entire efforts were devoted not to quality control or upgrades, but to lobby with the government to block other car manufacturers from entering the market.

It seems you have mistaken the point I was trying to make.I was not talking about HM or PAL or MUL in particular.What I said was that there was deterioration in quality due to Localisation( which is needed to keep prices low).Compare the 1993 Zen and a 2003 Zen,or a 1990 Maruti1000 and its 2002 Counterpart(Esteem) all has the same decline in quality.
Remember the W124 (Eclass) assembled in INDIA in 1996-1997,Its build quality and durability is several notches above the present E class.What was the price of W124 -Rs.25 lakhs which in todays monetary terms must be Rs.125 lakhs.that is the price of 3 E class cars!!!