[haria]

Article in Financial express about Mahindra's statement about this crash


A Mahindra XUV500 was involved in a fatal crash a few days back that left the owner’s son with traumatic head injuries. What made the crash worse is the fact that none of the six airbags deployed upon impact. The images of the crashed SUV were shared TeamBHP forum by a user seeking answers as to why it happened. TeamBHP user arvindb4 wrote that his Mahindra XUV500 W8 2013 model was involved in an accident. He added that his son was driving with the seatbelt on but none of the six airbags deployed and he suffered severe brain injuries thus leaving the right side of his body, speech, hearing damaged. Now, Mahindra President (Farma and Automotive) Rajan Wadhera has shared detailed letter explaining airbag deployment.



See the news story in the below link:

https://www.financialexpress.com/aut.../1268272/lite/

[cbatrody]

Originally Posted by haria

Article in Financial express about Mahindra's statement about this crash


See the news story in the below link:

https://www.financialexpress.com/aut.../1268272/lite/

I've mentioned the response from Mahindra team with respect to this issue mentioned in the above link in "Quotes". They look like a copy paste from the reply that they'd given on the previous incident that happened in 2015 (may be they've got some standard set of replies).

Usually, airbag deployments happen when the sensors detect a signal upon sufficient impact

Good to know that, you've enlightened us many. As per you an accident of this magnitude does not have sufficient impact for your sensors to wake up.

Calibrations are meticulously carried out in a way that the deployment of airbags happens only when it is warranted and so that, the deployments are avoided when it is not warranted

Are you telling us that this incident did not warrant the airbags to deploy? You must be sarcastic enough to use "Meticulous".

There are well-defined algorithms to decide the trigger of airbag deployments, based on the nature of impact and speeds. Sometimes what appears to be a severe enough accident may not have enough impact intensity for the airbags to deploy

Well defined? I guess the algorithm is well defined to stop the airbags from opening! May be your algorithm needs an upgrade rather than the car.

-In case of an accident leading to airbag deployment, the airbag ECU of the vehicle stores information related to that event. In case of an accident with no trigger for airbag deployment, there will not be any record of any data in ECU memory since the impact is not severe enough.

Mahindra team, if this not severe then what is? As someone mentioned in the previous posts, may be a nuclear explosion?

-Safety systems and the structural integrity of the XUV500 in India is the same as what is provided globally, and XUV is being sold in the EU and several other developed markets keeping up with their standards and norms.

So in essence, they are agreeing that it's the same half baked product that is sold across the globe.

[kovilkalai]

I own an XUV5OO. For a while, I was proud of an Indian company making a car like this. My recent experiences combined with Mr. Arvind's experience have shaken my faith in this car. I do appreciate Mahindra responding to the growing concern in this community, but their response makes things worse. All of us understand the general claims they make in Mr. Wadhera's letter. It is essential to get into the specifics of THIS car and THIS case. Looks like they have no intention of doing it. It is rather disappointing.

Mahindra has lost one more customer.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by mayankk

I believe for contravention of back to back posting rules. Should be back soon, I hope

Indeed. The ban is for 2 weeks (among the shortest bans on Team-BHP ever). We need our forum rules adhered to.

@ Arvind, as per my several PMs to you and my earlier public post on this thread, request to please NOT post one message right after another one. Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead. Don't ignore Moderator instructions.

To know how to multi-quote, click here.

Thank you!

No more off-topic posts please.

In the meantime, if there are any updates that Arvind wishes to share, please check out this page. You can share via that page & I'll post the same here.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by samaspire

"4. Safety systems and the structural integrity that we provide in XUV500 in India is the same as what we provide globally, and XUV is being sold in the EU and several other developed markets in keeping with their standards and norms."

What is this (bold) part supposed to mean? Isn't it a contradiction in the same sentence? First you say "we provide the same car globally" and then you say "in keeping with their standards and norms" !!

It means that Mahindra makes (or claims to make) XUV5OO to EU safety specifications (in order to sell the car in EU) and sells the same specification in India. I don't see any contradiction.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by kovilkalai

All of us understand the general claims they make in Mr. Wadhera's letter. It is essential to get into the specifics of THIS car and THIS case. Looks like they have no intention of doing it. It is rather disappointing.

Mahindra has lost one more customer.

To get into the specifics of THIS car and THIS case, the manufacturer needs access to THIS car. The access has been denied by Arvind due to suspicion.

While I understand the sentiments as well as the prima facie opinion that the airbags shall have deployed, we have no authority to deliver a judgement convicting the manufacturer without granting him access to the ill-fated car.

I am disappointed that the manufacturer did not answer Arvind's query about airbag certifications. I am also concerned that there are a few more cases where the airbags did not deploy inspite of the appreant need of the situation. So I am not thinking of buying their vehicles which are "just big-size, low priced, unsafe" as commented by someone on this thread.

But at the same time, I will not convict the manufacturer without giving him the access.

And let us remember one thing. Airbags not deploying may be a design / manufactuing flaw. But it is not the cause of accident. I have once again warned my close ones against over speed and told them to be vigilant about the situation on road.

Let us all drive safe.

[roby_dk]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

And let us remember one thing. Airbags not deploying may be a design / manufactuing flaw. But it is not the cause of accident. I have once again warned my close ones against over speed and told them to be vigilant about the situation on road.

Definition of Accident: An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.

Kindly don't play devil's advocate role here. This thread is not about safe driving. Whatever the condition whatever be the speed the simple point is the safety features present in car should help in best possible way to avoid or minimize the impact of the accident. Accidents can happen at any speed and based on that the safety equipments come into play. If we always drive at relatively low speed then do you think we need Airbags. As per manufacture's the Airbags will deploy at high impact at high speeds so there is no point in deviating this thread.

Please read my post on second page of this thread I too had a similar situation but fortunately on an unfortunate day my car saved me and displayed all safety gimmicks offered by manufacturer. It's true we should drive safe but what about others on road we can't rely on ourselves. No one will accept their fault in an accident as per them the mistake will always be from other side but the point here is about individual safety. Let's not discuss about why accident happened rather focus on how the impact could have been minimized.

[kovilkalai]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

While I understand the sentiments as well as the prima facie opinion that the airbags shall have deployed, we have no authority to deliver a judgement convicting the manufacturer without granting him access to the ill-fated car.

Perhaps, I should have been clearer. Here is why I AM convicting the manufacturer:

1. Ignoring the publicity aspect, a case like this is important for Mahindra to learn about what worked and what didn't work in their safety systems. It could very well be that all the systems worked as they were designed to. That doesn't mean their responsibility ends. It is important to find out whether airbag deployment would have helped the passengers. If yes, the design itself was flawed. So, it is important to determine what triggers should be added in the future, etc.

2. If they really cared about Mr. Arvind, they would have SPOKEN to him personally and attempted to build back the trust that was broken. According to Mr. Arvind, this wasn't the case. They chose to publish a PR statement before addressing the problem that required the PR intervention.

3. Given that Mr. Arvind is looking for an independent third-party inspection, why not grant it?

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

[b]

Kindly don't play devil's advocate role here.

Wrong choice of words. Be careful when you post. I have not been anyone's advocate. In fact, I have said that I am thinking not to buy cars from this manufacturer.

But at the same time, the manufacturer cannot comment on THIS car and THIS case if they have no access to the car. And we cannot declare them guilty without giving them access to the car.

Let us help Arvind to discover the facts (if we can). Let us support him at least emotionally (and more if possible). We all pray for his Son's recovery. But without any investigation so far, I think that Team-BHP too will not pass on a mandate that the manufacturer is guilty. And saying so is not playing Devil's advocate.


I understand your point that the airbags are supposed to deploy to minimise the impact. This shall be the focus of discussion and not "why the accident took place". And to discover the truth, I am on the same side as you, since my safety and the safety of my family and friends is vital to me.

And the same concern for safety makes me extend an advice to my near ones not to overspeed and to be vigilant about situation. This enhances safety. This advice is not to dilute the discussion of "why airbags did not deploy".

Originally Posted by kovilkalai

Perhaps, I should have been clearer. Here is why I AM convicting the manufacturer.

I understand. I too think that the manufacturer shall not deny a neutral probe.

[haria]

Offtopic : Mods kindly excuse!

Generally, Rules SHOULD be rules - period - let's not debate about it uselessly. The moment one start giving exception and excuses, it will be the beginning of the end of the forum discipline.

Initially I also was baffled about the ban, but the moderator has clarified this point and he has informed the op also. Let us leave it at that. Anyways, it is only a short ban of 2 weeks and the op also has an option to post updates. Don't make this into a big thing unnecessarily.

Let's keep the discussion - with the focus on the bigger picture - of safety and awareness and also updates about Aravind's son and any updates he may share regarding interactions with the authorities - just my 2 paisa! No offence to you or anybody!

[GTO]

Mod Note: No more off-topic posts please. We do not permit a public discussion on moderator activities.

[ads1485]

I just saw that this particular thread has been viewed over 2,05,000 times since it was created a few days ago!!!

Whatever the specifics of the accident, the fact of the matter is that the airbags failed to deploy when they clearly SHOULD have...though I haven't ever been anti-Mahindra, but after witnessing this unfortunate incident unfold before my computer screen, I have decided to NEVER purchase a M&M vehicle for my personal use. EVER.

Now the good thing is, that out of the 2 Lac+ times that this thread has been viewed so far, I am pretty sure that there are a few hundred others like me, at the very minimum - The point being that atleast Arvind (& others), can take comfort in the fact that a single thread on a motoring forum has hit the sales of a few hundred vehicles by a manufacturer, in a matter of a few days.

This is the power of awareness, and social media plays such an important role! Truly amazing!

All thanks to the internet and the smartphone Atleast manufacturers can't get away with blatant disregard for customer safety nowadays, which wasn't the case until even a few years ago.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by ads1485

All thanks to the internet and the smartphone

And independent platforms like us .

Check out just how many other automotive websites have covered this accident + airbag failure. You can count them on your fingers. On the other hand, if any manufacturer launches a new limited edition with new stickers & some more chrome, it's a race to who publishes it first .

[ads1485]

Originally Posted by GTO

And independent platforms like us.

Arey sorry, I forgot to mention that

No, it's precisely due to Independents like TBHP that incidents like these can be given a free and fair expression. This was largely unheard of earlier, because Independents were labelled "enthusiasts" and "eccentrics," and their opinion was easily silenced by Big (Paid) Media.

Technology has just given a stronger voice to the independent platform, which has made it possible for the public to see the all important, "other side."

In fact, I'm not sure if I can think of any other motoring forum which I can actually trust when it comes to news about the automotive scene. Doug DeMuro was one of the few auto journalists whom I trusted, but off late most of his videos have a very "paid" vibe to them.

Anyway, just felt like pointing out how amazing this whole thing is, at least on a awareness/investigative level, which is what really counts in the long run. This incident is indelibly marked on the collective memory of the internet, and M&M is going to have to jump through more than a few hoops to rectify it

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by ads1485

I just saw that this particular thread has been viewed over 2,05,000 times since it was created a few days ago!!!

Now the good thing is, that out of the 2 Lac+ times that this thread has been viewed so far, I am pretty sure that there are a few hundred others like me, at the very minimum - The point being that atleast Arvind (& others), can take comfort in the fact that a single thread on a motoring forum has hit the sales of a few hundred vehicles by a manufacturer, in a matter of a few days.

Originally Posted by GTO

And independent platforms like us .

Check out just how many other automotive websites have covered this accident + airbag failure. You can count them on your fingers.

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

But at the same time, the manufacturer cannot comment on THIS car and THIS case if they have no access to the car. And we cannot declare them guilty without giving them access to the car.

I understand. I too think that the manufacturer shall not deny a neutral probe.

This (unfortunate, of course) incident has given TBHP an opportunity to test its own role and influence; it has also created a very hot discussion on the flip side. My wild idea is: can we assemble a team to inspect the vehicle or at least arrange and oversee an inspection by M&M of the crashed vehicle?

What prevents Arvind from denying M&M is his fear that evidence may/might be tampered. I support him 100% here. Yet, we must also accept (after all, we're a tech-inclined community) that M&M will remain inconclusive and uncooperative as long as they're denied access to the crashed vehicle. We should support them too, else we can't claim we are 100% independent.

So, IMHO, to end this catch-22 situation, we should mediate and arrange access for M&M to the crashed vehicle under our supervision.