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Old 26th February 2021, 14:13   #13186
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Friday, light workload, third test of a gripping series, looking forward to day 3 of such an important match!

Wait, there is no day 3!

Gavaskar (and the rest of us) can justify it in any way he wants to- pitches in xyz country have xyz mm of grass, no one plays spin like the legends anymore, no one complains in xyz country, it is 'unpatriotic' to criticize our pitches, whatever. But the fact remains that when a test match gets done in 2 days, where both teams are more or less evenly matched, something is wrong with the pitch/(pink ball).
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Old 26th February 2021, 14:36   #13187
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Don't think there is much wrong with the pitch. Most of the dismissals were either for straight balls or because of poor shots. Only a few were genuine wicket taking delivereies. One observation that I read and then re-checked in replays was that the extra lacquer on the pink ball was aiding the ball to skid more than normal ball would, thus hurrying the batsmen and the reason why there were more dismissals for arm balls than turners. In fact I felt the second test pitch in Chennai was more difficult to bat on as ball was turning very much from day one with some balls bouncing more than usual.

This could have been blunted easily had the batsmen played more on front foot and used their feet a bit more, reaching for the pitch of the ball. Another simple aspect but difficult to implement for many is that the basic training generally tells to play the line of the ball and then adjust for movement if any. What we have seen is many players playing expecting the turn rather than the line of the ball.
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Old 26th February 2021, 15:03   #13188
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Batsmen dont complain when an innings last 3 days and test ends in a boring draw.
Why complain when bowlers have a field day - life for a change is good for the bowlers.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 26th February 2021 at 16:04. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 26th February 2021, 15:09   #13189
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Originally Posted by LonelyPlanet View Post
Batsmen dont complain when an innings last 3 days and test ends in a boring draw.
Why complain when bowlers have a field day - life for a change is good for the bowlers.
Not all draws are boring in Test cricket. Some of the most exciting and best matches have ended in a draw. That's the beauty of Test cricket. And yes people would complain about the pitch if each of the first 3 batsmen on each side scored 200+ each! That's boring.
It's not about what batsmen want versus what bowlers want, it's about having a pitch where it can be genuinely bat vs ball, in fact, IMHO it should be tilted slightly in favor of the home bowling side, that too is great. But not where it's entirely one-sided. (Unless both teams are that mismatched, but again that's the whole point of a team getting Test status, theoretically should avoid too many of those situations.)

I mean, how many of you guys feel cheated as the audience? I do, I expect at least 4.5 days of cricket in a Test match (and no, not 4.5 days of 2 first innings 500+ scores ). Or is it as long as my team wins, who cares?

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 26th February 2021 at 16:08. Reason: Quoted post edited. Thanks.
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Old 26th February 2021, 15:34   #13190
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I saw the whole 2 days. Nowhere pitch looked unplayable or dangerous for batsman. Few balls turned, few were straight. If batsman can't play straighter ones that's a faulty technique not a faulty pitch. England were 70 something for 2 wickets and then collapse happened. India were 99/3 and then collapse happened.
Let's evaluate Indian batting-

Rohit played well in both innings. In first one he was all set for a 100 and played a bad sweep.

Gill played a bad pull shot.

Pujara missed a straighter one.

Kohli was all set and played a cut short to a ball which was too close to the stumps, hence chopped on.

Rahane again played a bad shot to a straight ball.

Pant played a loose extravagant cover drive against the spin and got a faint edge.

Ashwin tried to slog as he was batting with tail.

Sundar wicket is the only one where ball turned and beat him but it wasn't an unplayable ball.

Axar tried to hit over covers and couldn't control his drive.

Bumrah tried to slog and got caught.

So, if we see these wickets most were bad shots + lack of footwork and pitch had nothing unpredictable to contribute in that. Expect for Sundar's wicket which we can still say had a good turn off the pitch.

The truth remains. Most Modern batsman don't have great technique and patience against swing or spin and I am including Indian batsman in that. Give batsman a swinging Lords and they collapse. Give them a turner and they again collapse. We did well in Australia cos those pitches provide extra pace and bounce and swing and turn are less there. In Adelaide the moment Pink ball started swinging we collapsed to 36 all out. In NZ we again failed against swing. In England its usually the same story and I expect same stuff to happen when we tour this year.

We can keep blaming pitches but when 21 out of 30 wickets fall to straight balls what's the fault of pitch in that?

On a side note please read Michael Atherton column for this match. He has given a very fair viewpoint.

Edit- added this tweet by Boycott.

Also attached how many runs were scored by batsman this series. When Ashwin is at 3 and Rahane at bottom you understand how poor in application specialist batsman have been.
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Last edited by harry10 : 26th February 2021 at 15:57.
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Old 26th February 2021, 21:29   #13191
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Originally Posted by AtheK View Post
England is out of race for WTC now, India needs to win or draw next one to qualify, let's see how pitch acts during day time with red ball.
England are in quite some pickle isn't it? If they win the next test, then they would be doing a favour to Australia
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Old 27th February 2021, 01:54   #13192
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My coaches have told me that when the pitch offers variable turn, the dangerous ball is the straight one as batsmen overcompensate for the turn. (Same with bounce)

As expected, England couldn't handle the challenge with 3 frontline Indian spinners, but India didn't do too well either as Root rolled his arm and got 5 wickets. Variable turn is expected at later stages when the pitch wears out and bowlers footmarks makes things unpredictable. A fighting innings with unpredictable turn & bounce on Day 4 & Day 5 makes things interesting but this pitch never offered easy conditions to the batsmen even on Day 1.

In short: There was NO balance between bat & ball.

The batting equivalent of this pitch is when a team scores 650 in the first innings and opposition scores 750 in second innings and the result is a draw.

While batsmen of today aren't nearly as patient like the batsmen of the bygone era, I can point out to many examples of similar games. Remember when Michael Clarke rolled his arm and picked up 6/9? Thet match ended in 3 days.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard
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Old 27th February 2021, 12:42   #13193
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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
My coaches have told me that when the pitch offers variable turn, the dangerous ball is the straight one as batsmen overcompensate for the turn. (Same with bounce)

As expected, England couldn't handle the challenge with 3 frontline Indian spinners, but India didn't do too well either as Root rolled his arm and got 5 wickets. Variable turn is expected at later stages when the pitch wears out and bowlers footmarks makes things unpredictable. A fighting innings with unpredictable turn & bounce on Day 4 & Day 5 makes things interesting but this pitch never offered easy conditions to the batsmen even on Day 1.

In short: There was NO balance between bat & ball.

The batting equivalent of this pitch is when a team scores 650 in the first innings and opposition scores 750 in second innings and the result is a draw.

While batsmen of today aren't nearly as patient like the batsmen of the bygone era, I can point out to many examples of similar games. Remember when Michael Clarke rolled his arm and picked up 6/9? Thet match ended in 3 days.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard
I am sorry but I disagree with few things here. Why is Root fifer hailed as a miracle? He is a competent spin bowler and is rated highly by fans world over. He bowls less cos he is the Captain and specialist batsman not to say there best batsman so his primary role is to bat. If they had selected Bess or retained Moin for this match Root wasn't needed to bowl.

Moreover he didn't bowled any peaches to top order. Except for Pant who is lower middle order rest were tail enders. Only the bowl which bowled Sundar had a good spin and rest were risky slogs from batsman. Root fifer is being splashed just to prove pitch was devious. By that logic Ashwin scored a 100 last match so it should be proof enough that Chennai pitch was a flat deck, does it?

Truth remains. You play well you get rewarded like Rohit in this match and Ashwin in last one irrespective if pitch is swinging or spinning. Heck, Ashwin looked great while batting in this match and he only slogged when we had 2 wickets left. If he had someone to support him like last time I am sure he would have scored something good again.

England is obviously whining cos they lost. Had they won not a single fan or likes of Vaughan would be complaining. I didn't see them complaining in first test when pitch was a road for first 2 days when they batted and then crumbled on third. They won the game so all was well with pitch.

India rolled out for 36 in Adelaide and that was hailed as an awesome amazing spell of fast bowling by worlds best fast bowlers. Here Axar and Ashwin bowled well and got England out at 81 and that happened cos pitch is vicious. Isn't this double standard and belittling the efforts of our both bowlers who obviously planned and executed for every wicket they got.

On an ending note, when we visit NZ and England and get pitches equivalent to outfield I don't see us complaining and whining. I don't see anyone saying anything when ball swings viciously at Lords or Wellington from ball 1. Then batsman need to have a good technique to survive. So what's the problem if ball is spinning from start here, again you need a good technique to survive.

The only time pitch is vicious or unplayable when there is variable bounce especially low bounce on deliveries expected to have an even bounce. Not a single delivery in this match I remember which had uneven bounce.

Last edited by harry10 : 27th February 2021 at 12:47.
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Old 27th February 2021, 13:40   #13194
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IMO, it was not the pitch but the ball which was the main culprit here. However, where the pitch was bad was the landing area for fast bowlers. Let England whine about the pitch all they want now, but Root was correct in his initial assessment in his post match comments.

Also in general, a wicket can be bad due to unfavourable balance towards bat, seam or spin. Among these three, a pitch that takes vicious turn on day 1 is considered the worst because it keeps getting worse during the course of five days. A pitch with excessive seam movement tends to get better for batting each day so it is not considered as bad.
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Old 27th February 2021, 14:15   #13195
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Jasprit Bumrah released from India’s squad

Jasprit Bumrah made a request to BCCI to be released from India’s squad ahead of the fourth Test owing to personal reasons.

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Old 27th February 2021, 19:36   #13196
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Originally Posted by jkrishnakj View Post

So, my hypothesis is that the skills of batsmen to cope with Spin and on turning tracks had taken a plummeting dive. This isnít just for the visiting teams, but even for our own squad. Itís sad though.
This is because of DRS and LBW's. One can no longer play with the pads and kick away balls which you dont know what to do with. Remember James Padams playing one whole series with his pads. So batsmen have to play with their bats leading to edges.
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Old 27th February 2021, 23:40   #13197
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Jasprit Bumrah released from Indiaís squad

Jasprit Bumrah made a request to BCCI to be released from Indiaís squad ahead of the fourth Test owing to personal reasons.

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Justified. He is an important asset and we need to utilize him judiciously. He isn't playing odi's too if I remember correctly. Should be rested properly and we have Umesh to replace him or even Siraj. As per BCCI high official next pitch will be quite flat so we don't need to burn him out.

Quote:
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This is because of DRS and LBW's. One can no longer play with the pads and kick away balls which you dont know what to do with. Remember James Padams playing one whole series with his pads. So batsmen have to play with their bats leading to edges.
I agree. Remember that 900 odd Sri Lanka made against us where Jayasuriya and Mahanama played all 3 days with liberal use of their pads. Now with DRS you can't hide your bat behind your pad and keep blocking it left and right. DRS has brought bowlers back in the batsman dominated game big time as Umpires too have become more aware in giving Lbw's and that's why we see a lot more umpire calls.
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Old 28th February 2021, 00:14   #13198
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Dare say he is one of the most intelligent cricketer in our team and maybe world cricket. No diplomacy or mincing words. States it how he sees it.
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Old 28th February 2021, 06:33   #13199
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Whatever be the justifications, to me these test matches are as much a waste of time as a one sided run fest or a test match on a green top that ends in 3 days because no one could bat.

Utterly pointless to watch 2 days when half the players playing have no chance.
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Old 28th February 2021, 07:02   #13200
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This is because of DRS and LBW's. One can no longer play with the pads and kick away balls which you dont know what to do with. Remember James Padams playing one whole series with his pads. So batsmen have to play with their bats leading to edges.
Quite likely or Maybe.

Maybe because, we have also seen the likes of Kumble take a lot more LBW’s without the DRS. He had 25% dismissals to LBW.

Muralidharan had 19% and if you go back more years, Venkataraghavan had 16%. Even the big turning Shane Warne has 20% of his wickets towards LBW. And all these spinners played during the non DRS days.

I still feel it’s the batsmen who believe in slogging out the spin and not being technical to counter the spin and grind it out, causing such matches. I don’t want to credit the DRL systems just yet.

Last edited by jkrishnakj : 28th February 2021 at 07:02. Reason: Spelling.
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