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Old 27th August 2019, 13:04   #17536
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Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Since it is a flyover for entrance into a private property, it shouldn't even be CSR IMO. It is the expenditure for its own infrastructure by a private company.

More importantly, how can the govt. allow private property entrances to be built on public land? That too on the most important road of the city after digging the sections which were white topped a few months back after spending tens of crores (for this stretch).
The entrance to the property was what they had built earlier. The plan was approved and as per the law of the land they are ok. This new entrance is not a need or requirement for the developer.

Now the public is suffering and there is a big issue (because of the approved plan for the entrance). The government and the authorities are struggling to solve the issue; but they are not ready to spend on making a flyover there. Now the developer is willing to spend and make people's life a little easier. This is hence a CSR activity.

A corporate lesson that I've learnt is that it is more important how you present/project anything than what you present.

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
I am seeing a lot of criticism for white topping of the roads in this thread. Can anyone specify why this is considered a sham or a white elephant? To me, this was a good move. The longevity is really good for these roads especially in wet conditions and roads exposed to heavy loads and flooding. This will also put to a retarring scam at least for a reasonable period.
I am looking for some serious technical concerns other than the usual ones propagated by armchair activists like corruption, lack of water drain mechanism etc. As if these issues were non-existent before.
Corruption was existing before and this has taken it to a new level (ok let's ignore that)
Lack of water drain is not just propaganda, it's a real thing. The storm water drains are already small (by poor design and by encroachments) and can't take this additional inflow leading to flooding. Let's keep that aside too for a while.

Technical reasons why I am against this white topping:
1. Tarred roads allow water to seep through to the ground and it helps refill ground water levels. The concrete that is used for this white topping doesn't allow that. All the rain water goes down the drains and wasted. Depleting ground water levels are a hard hitting reality in Bangalore (ask any body who got borewells drilled and how deeper and deeper they're forced to go with each passing year).
2. Because of reason 1., old roadside trees which Bangalore was once famous for are dying a slow death because they aren't getting enough water. that is if they are already not cut down. this definitely is taking the temperatures of the city higher
3. Many of these new white-topped roads already have already turned smooth and pose a high risk of vehicle skidding(especially 2-wheelers). They may last long in terms of not getting potholes, but they don't last long with respect to surface roughness.
4. If re-tarring was a scam as per you, re-scaling (lines to keep the surface rough will replace that). I'd prefer the former because re-scaling or repairing dug up sections of White topping is tougher and more expensive that re-tarring (digging up new roads isn't stopping anytime soon).
5. Tyre life of our cars reduce drastically with concrete roads...the cascading effect because of this is also a real issue.
6. The roads selected for white topping are already good wide roads with hardly any issues (like in and around Lalbagh, KR road). The roads which were bad earlier, remain bad. Priority is something that our city planners don't know.

Last edited by Jaggu : 27th August 2019 at 15:08.
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Old 27th August 2019, 13:34   #17537
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
I am not martial arts expert but I have trained as a boxer in my school life. Always go for the face in the street fight.
Boxing is a martial art. Going for the face is a bad idea when you are not wearing boxing glove. Your sparring training is based on gloves. Without the protection of the glove, you can easily break your fingers if you connect to the skull. You can't be very sure where the punch will land, the other guy may bend his head by reflex.

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
In any case, the native Kannada speaking population is a minority here.
Not true. The Kannada speaking population of Banglore has actually gone up according to census data of last 3 decades. Most of the migration to Bangalore is from rural districts of Karnataka. Their share is low in the white collar jobs though.

But it feels like Kannadigas are minority because they never open a conversation with a stranger in Kannada unless they know other person can speak Kannada. I have a saying that Bangalore is the only place where two strangers will try talking in English, Hindi, Tamil or Telugu before discovering they both can speak Kannada.

For example, Uber/Ola or Swiggy guys or grocery/vegetable shops guys in Bangalore always try Hindi or English first, they switch to Kannada only after I reply in Kannada.

Last edited by Samurai : 27th August 2019 at 13:35.
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Old 27th August 2019, 13:54   #17538
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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post

Technical reasons why I am against this white topping:
Agree to most of your points, but I still think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Been to Gurgaon for a while. The difference in the condition of non-concrete and concrete ones after flooding is startling. People from cities like Mumbai Mangalore etc also will be able to vouch for this.

Bitumen roads may absorb water, but crumbles like fine sand during water logging. Not sure how much percentage of water the bitumen roads will absorb. It is not the job of roads to hold or recharge the water anyway. Proper storm water drains should be constructed for that.

At city speeds, the tyre life won't be affected much I suppose.

Arterial roads and roads prone to flooding should be given the priority.

I totally agree, this is a bad move if they are going to continue the digging spree. Concrete roads are extremely difficult to repair. But on ORR atleast most of digging happens on service roads.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 27th August 2019 at 14:16. Reason: Spacing for improved readability
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:03   #17539
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
A very strange thread indeed - plenty of rage, bias, insane conjectures and out of the world advices

Let me add mine. Learning Kannada is a waste of time. ... In any case, the native Kannada speaking population is a minority here.
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Not true. The Kannada speaking population of Banglore has actually gone up according to census data of last 3 decades.
Samurai, I think you fell for his insane conjecture

msdivy's post is definitely many people's opinion in this city
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:03   #17540
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Boxing is a martial art. Going for the face is a bad idea when you are not wearing boxing glove. Your sparring training is based on gloves. Without the protection of the glove, you can easily break your fingers if you connect to the skull. You can't be very sure where the punch will land, the other guy may bend his head by reflex.
Yes I know Boxing is an martial arts and as i said I am not an expert. You dont learn much in school unless you perfect it and make it a hobby/career. I just learned landing a punch in a manner which will deter the opponent to make a second move, in this case I gave him 3 clear punches Chin, Cheek and nose which left him bleeding and shocked. What happened next was the other guys jumped me from behind which is the case in any street fight and you can only deal and not win this situation. When you get into a fight I know its a loss for both and anything can happen.

I am still having a sore fist as you pointed out
I will urge everyone not to get into any such fights and avoid, I am still kicking myself for getting into this and regret.
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:06   #17541
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Let me add mine. Learning Kannada is a waste of time.
Please don't say that. I am not initiating a debate here however the reason why the locals here initiate a conversation in another language is to accommodate the folks from outside states. Yes people do not upfront speak in Kannada however imagine a local else where speaking in Kannada and then switching to the local language. Have gratitude to the land from where you earn your living and is your "Karma Bhumi"
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:13   #17542
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When my daughter joined school, I made it a point that she learns Kannada as the second language even though 80% opted for Hindi or some other language. I thought it is imperative for her to learn the local language being born here. She tops the exams in Kannada at school, but can barely speak it. This is because we stay in Whitefield where Kannadigas are sparse. Most of her friends speak English or Hindi. So you may be able to learn Kannada, but acquiring speaking skills is really difficult. This needs constant interactions at home or social circle.

Last edited by poloman : 27th August 2019 at 14:15.
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:44   #17543
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

Alright, I thought I would give this thread a miss but now it's taking a wrong turn. It was an isolated incident which could have happened to any of us anywhere in India, but now the thread has become a clash of opinion between native Kannadigas and other which might snowball.

I am a Tamil living in Bangalore for the past 20 odd years and can speak Kannada fluently (Middle level -2). If I found myself in the situation that Mr. Shivraj was in, I would have also been roughed up. This has nothing to do with Bangalore / Pune / you-name-it going to the dogs. I empathize with Mr. Shivraj and hope that this does not happen to any of us and let this be the end of it.

Last edited by aah78 : 27th August 2019 at 22:09. Reason: Post fixed. Multiple typos.
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:55   #17544
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Default Re: Bengaluru: Apathy towards humans and Law

I completely understand what you went through & sympathize with you. However let me also add that this problem you had to face is not unique to Bangalore or Karnataka.

First let me start by saying that I have spent only the last 9 years of my life in Bangalore, I am not a son of the soil and neither can I speak the local language. Unfortunately I am one of those souls who cant claim any one city as my own, as I have not stayed in one place for more than a decade. The longest time I have spent in my life is in Mumbai and Pune put together followed by Chennai & Bangalore. I used to drive a TN registration vehicle in Pune and have come across similar situations despite being able to understand Marathi and speak a decent bit of it. Now coming to Bangalore, let me give you my perspective, contrary to popular opinion the folks here understand Hindi quiet well in comparison to other southern states. Specially the police control room is pretty decent in this aspect. I myself have been in a few situation where I had to explain my problem to the control room in Hindi, here in Bangalore and they have been quiet receptive. Also its my opinion that the the local traffic policemen are relatively more considerate in comparison to some of the other cities I have stayed in, when it comes to not knowing the local language. Try talking in Hindi to a Chennai policeman or in Tamil to a Mumbai policeman, you will know what am trying to convey.

Ironically I can speak Tamil & Marathi and not a wee bit of Kannada, yet here I am defending the one city whose local language I cannot converse in. My point being - while the pain you had to go through is well understood, please do not tie it to a city or state or its people. This is a problem with every major city and town in this country where the hooligans resort to the lowest level including hitting people. These scum of the earth do not define the city or the state or the people residing there.

Last edited by SR-71 : 27th August 2019 at 15:03.
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Old 27th August 2019, 14:58   #17545
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It is because of the eco-system. ....But isn't enough for lots of bigger companies, their eco-system needs are lot more complex.
Also after a certain period of time, the corporate inertia kicks in. Middle or upper level management would have become personally invested in Bengaluru - Kids' school, spouse working, EMIs etc - and would be loathe to move to a different city. They will crib, rant, and complain but would take no significant measure to move to another city. My own MNC s/w company is building a new campus in Devanahalli. Imagine travelling from South Bangalore to Devanahalli.
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Old 27th August 2019, 15:09   #17546
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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
The entrance to the property was what they had built earlier. The plan was approved and as per the law of the land they are ok.
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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Oh yes. This is certainly unique I agree but the bone of contention here is the very existence of the Tech Park itself and if forking out a flyover to descend right into the IT park is going to make things better, I think we should welcome this. The associated pain while this happens shall of course be the agony to bear with for few years before it is completed.
Agree. The root of the issue is with the existence of the tech park itself right on the ring road. Hope that the flyover makes things better. The plan is to fork the flyover from the right lane of Verrannanapalya flyover?

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Originally Posted by poloman View Post
I am seeing a lot of criticism for white topping of the roads in this thread. Can anyone specify why this is considered a sham or a white elephant? To me, this was a good move. The longevity is really good for these roads especially in wet conditions and roads exposed to heavy loads and flooding.
TBH, Bengaluru doesn't receive huge bursts of rainfall like the coastal cities to warrant white topping. ORR in spite of carrying so much traffic including big buses and heavy NH trucks didn't require yearly maintenance. It just doesn't justify spending 10x the amount to white top when the same stretch could be asphalted for 20 years at 2 years frequency. The countless hours spent by thousands of vehicles wasting all that fuel would have cost the economy quite a bit too.

Then, there is no guarantee that the quality of work delivered by BBMP can last 10-15 years too. Spending of 36000 million INR when there are plenty of bad roads needing attention is a criminal waste. Also, they have even gone and white topped residential area main roads like the one parallel to Kodigehalli railway track. That road can last 10 years after a round of asphalting alone. Why do there? That is just one example.

While the first stretch of white topping done on ORR between Banasawadi and Tin Factory is quite smooth, most other stretches have been done shabbily. The cars would be shaking if you cross 40 on most of these stretches. Sitting in a BMTC bus is an irritation on these stretches. The flooding problem has become worse too. After a spell of moderately heavy rain, the left two lanes on the stretch between Veerannanapalya and Hebbala become waterlogged. It really wasn't that bad before.

Last edited by theredliner : 27th August 2019 at 15:10.
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Old 27th August 2019, 15:09   #17547
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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
Hello Everyone,

Mods: Please move to appropriate thread if this has been discussed.

We have
Shivraj, I feel so sorry about the incident and hope you'll recover soon from the trauma you had to face without any fault of yours. I can totally relate to what you must be feeling after the incident as I have had my share of this inter-city racism in the last 4 years of my stay in the city. Though the incidents were not as serious as in your case, I get regularly bullied by cabs on the road just because I have a DL number car.

The first taste of this bitter medicine I got was when there was a robbery in my house just after I moved to Bangalore in 2015 and the cops started questioning me as to why I came to Bangalore leaving my own state. . Instead of investigating the case they were more focused on finding ways to extort some money out of me and passing on outsiders remarks at the drop of a hat. Even after all this, I refused to put my foot down and continued to stay here, however, things doesn't seem to be improving much.

Last edited by grevvity : 27th August 2019 at 15:28.
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Old 27th August 2019, 15:19   #17548
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Not true. The Kannada speaking population of Banglore has actually gone up according to census data of last 3 decades. Most of the migration to Bangalore is from rural districts of Karnataka. Their share is low in the white collar jobs though.
Technically as per 2011 census, native Kannada speakers are 40%. Though they are the largest, they are not the majority. But I agree majority know Kannada.
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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
msdivy's post is definitely many people's opinion in this city
People take the path of least resistance and do what is convenient for them. So there have to check & balance, which is missing in the language policy. But that is off-topic.
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Originally Posted by sumathindra View Post
Have gratitude to the land from where you earn your living and is your "Karma Bhumi"


In Mumbai, most can get by without knowing Marathi. Some parts of Bangalore are already up there. I was providing ground reality to the OP, which he would have figured out in due time.
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Old 27th August 2019, 15:20   #17549
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My own MNC s/w company is building a new campus in Devanahalli. Imagine travelling from South Bangalore to Devanahalli.
Only Karnataka has political impotents who cannot speak up for the cause of state, the investors inside politics have taken advantage of this negative attitude. Imagine how two sitting MLA's who came to Bangalore as migrants decades ago have built their empire in the heart of Bangalore. The villages around Devanahalli are among the most looted places of Bangalore in the name of SEZ's. The compensation has not reached the hands of affected people. NICE road is another classical example of social discrmination. Bangalore has unfortunately witnessed lot of destruction through real estate, religious activities, collapsing education and housing infrastructure for the poor and middle class, racial discrimination at schools in the name of language and religion.

Last edited by deehunk : 27th August 2019 at 15:30.
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Old 27th August 2019, 15:22   #17550
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Originally Posted by ShivrajG View Post
Hello Everyone,
....
Regards
Shivraj S Ghorpade
Hey Shiv, really sorry to hear about your experience. I fully sympathise with you. I am in Bangalore for past two decades and have seen this city grow closely. I have had my share of such bitter experiences too.

Like everyone said - this is not really specific to Bangalore or KA. You just happened to be at wrong place at wrong time with a wrong group. But then it started getting better too - the BSF guy came to your help. You may have already mentally rehearsed about what should not have been done and should have been done - including dashcam, etc!

One additional thing I would suggest - while you are here, revive the local meet thread and make more friends. And cheer up - this city is lovely and we aren't all that kind of taxi guys

By the way, I am born and brought up in MH. And I can speak good Kannada and know thing or two about this city.
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