[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by vasoo

Are there any good independent workskops in Bangalore who are capable of handling Civic suspension works? I am looking to change the OEM shocks with Koni FSDs next week. Rear shocks are supposed to be plug-n-play. However the front dampers will need some changes.

Vasoo, IIRC MEthods are based out of B'lore na? So they would know a mechanic that would know the installation procedure.
It would be better if you let methods guys handle the installation.

All the best and do post your experience here.

[dot]

Originally Posted by patron

at the last few bends had to drive hard and after a point could smell petrol from the A/c vents.

But after some cooling down after reaching the hotel went for a drive and everything seems fine.

Is it normal for the petrol fumes to enter the cabin with hard driving?

Originally Posted by mdsaab

had the AC on the whole trip. and all of a sudden we could smell petrol in the cabin. so after a minute or two i switched off the AC.

Anyways after switching off the AC we could still smell the petrol

what in the world could it be?

Was the blower set at recirculation mode or fresh air mode?

If it was in fresh air mode, it is quite possible that petrol smell has come from outside.

If the mode was in recirculation and both of you noticed the smell during a "ghat" climb, is it possible that the petrol was sloshing in the tank and hit the cap which is below the rear seat and some smell seeped in?

Originally Posted by vasoo

I am looking to change the OEM shocks with Koni FSDs next week. Rear shocks are supposed to be plug-n-play. However the front dampers will need some changes.

As @Hiren said, Methods is in Bangalore and we know they helped @The saint for his Konis. Will look forward to hear your experiences.

@Hiren, are you planning to come to the mega meet. That might be one chance to check out the runners (and meet you ).

[jatinpatel]

@dot
Very very glad to know that scorpo is soundfree and revving freely and happily like the way she is supposed to.
The little noise can be psychological too right ?

In silver rocket the noise is soo faint that to my mum and dad its in audible even to some of my Automaniac friends, so kinda thinking to leave the noise as it is or untill it increases.

Did you feel any change in driving feel post tensioner change ?
The cost which you have mentioned is the price through Honda or your independent garage ? and which manufacturer part you installed ? OEM or any other aftermarket alternative ? Did you ask Honda A.S.S about the replacement cost ?

Could you see any tale tale signs on the autotensioner gone bad that was removed from scorpo ?

[mdsaab]

@gaurav_chopra04
I would prefer not to change the lights too. The outer most left one should be alright with just one scratch which is not too visible. But the left inner one with three scratches and quite visible to me is going to bug me no end.
I called up our SA yesterday and you will be surprised to hear that i have not got an estimate from them yet. Even though the car has been with them 2 days. According to the posts by @laluks and @alto99 i have also come to an estimate of 7-8K from my pocket.
Our car is not yet 3 she will be so in mid July. But the insurance guy at Honda said that i would have to pay depreciation for 3 years which would come to 30%.
While someone else said that even if you pay 3 year depreciation you should only pay 15%. Little confused so will head to the insurance thread to confirm. Thanks for posting the estimate, feel better as you re-confirmed the figures i had drawn up.

@dot
I dont know how i forgot to tell you this. It definately was on those twin approx 70kms ghat. I even got down to open the lid and check. After driving without the AC for a bit the smell vanished. At first i thought it was from the surrounding area. There was no or hardly any smell of petrol on the outside only on the inside. Was pretty weird but i wrote it off as a one off incident. Went to Lavasa too after that drive and there was no smell at all.

@laluks thanks for the cost of the left most tail light. I will review the damage at the ASC once again. But as i mentioned earlier the bootlid one is quite bad. Will take a look again and then come to a conclusion.
Logo wise i think they were all intact. There maybe a need of change on the left most logo though. Will review this too.

Thanks everybody for your inputs and support. I do get quite nervous when it comes to dealing with something so close to the heart.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by mdsaab

I would prefer not to change the lights too. The outer most left one should be alright with just one scratch which is not too visible. But the left inner one with three scratches and quite visible to me is going to bug me no end

Get any buffing machine guy to add some polish and buff it. The scratches will go light . But make sure, they are not cracks, or the light will get filled with water in rain and you will have to replace it from your own pocket.

I called up our SA yesterday and you will be surprised to hear that i have not got an estimate from them yet. Even though the car has been with them 2 days. According to the posts by @laluks and @alto99 i have also come to an estimate of 7-8K from my pocket.

Press them for an estimate, or say you will take the vehicle to some other ASC. They should do it immidiately, in your case, it shouldnt take more than 15-20 mins.

Our car is not yet 3 she will be so in mid July. But the insurance guy at Honda said that i would have to pay depreciation for 3 years which would come to 30%.
While someone else said that even if you pay 3 year depreciation you should only pay 15%.

Who ever said that is absolutely right. On metal parts the depreciation is 15%, when your car is over 2 years and less than 3 years. More than 3 and less than 4 is 25%. Depreciation on plastic will be 50%.

Even if its 1 day for the car to get 3 year old, the depreciaton will be for less than 3 years, i.e. 15%.

Little confused so will head to the insurance thread to confirm. Thanks for posting the estimate, feel better as you re-confirmed the figures i had drawn up.

Sorry, I didnt know how old your car was, I just saw the total figures and depreciation mentioned here and calculated it. Your policy document will have it in black and white, you may want to refer to it, But it should be 15% for sure on metal.

EDIT: since your car will be due for insurance in July, you might wana go for Tata AIG's 0 depreciation policy. Its for first 5 years of the car, so you can have it for another 2 years. Of course, you will need to pay 4-5K extra, but that will make sure, you pay just Rs. 500 for estimate from your pocket, in case of an accident and every thing else is borne by the insurance, no matter how big the claim is. You can take such claim 2 times a year, more than that you follow regular policy norms.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by patron

but at the last few bends had to drive hard and after a point could smell petrol from the A/c vents.

I've never had a whiff of petrol entering the cabin after hard driving (whether on ghats or elsewhere). However, I have experienced another smell which I can't describe. It's not pungent or malodorous but it definitely screams "car" or "mechanicals". It happens whenever I keep the car on high revs for a long time (think NH7 and constant 150+, or a series of fast ghat curves).

Initially I thought it was brake dust but I keep the windows closed and AC on (in recirculate mode) all the time, and I can smell it not just while braking. Then I suspected burnt electricals or something, but although the smell is very close to that, it's not exactly the same. It doesn't have the same pungent quality.

I think it's just the smell of heated metal (or plastic). I don't know how bad it could be but it usually dies out once revs cool down.

If it's really petrol you smelt then it's better to get all the fuel lines inspected. The constant lateral acceleration on the curves might have caused something to become a bit loose. This is just my hunch.

Originally Posted by mdsaab

@smartcat from the discussion i had with the SA he said that the lights would cost extra and are not included with the bootlid. the 2 on the left have some scratches. although they light up fine. I would like to get it replaced so that i can sleep at night.

I'm sorry to hear about the accident Chicca's suffered. It's not a pretty sight. If I were you I'd probably just get the boot lid and bumper (especially) replaced. I'm surprised that the service center hasn't given you an estimate yet. Please also get them to check whether the body shell inside the rear left panel has suffered a bend. I hope not, however.

Don't worry about the hit to NCB on your insurance policy. You'll make that difference up in time.

Originally Posted by mdsaab

We reached some Phonda ghat (hope i spelt it right) which continued for like approx 70kms. had the AC on the whole trip. and all of a sudden we could smell petrol in the cabin. so after a minute or two i switched off the AC. All this while keeping a check on my RVM to see for any petrol leakage. which would have been suicide considering this ghat was like through a jungle with no civilization for miles. Anyways after switching off the AC we could still smell the petrol, with the windows rolled down.

Yes, Phonda is the name. This is the ghat I took recently on my drive to Goa from Hyderabad. It's a beautiful route but yeah, deserted and as you pointed out, could get a bit scary in the dark. It's good you didn't face any issue on this route as help is almost non-existent.

As I noted above, I don't think it's the smell of leaking petrol. It's similar to the smell emitted by heated metal (maybe even plastic, and definitely not rubber).

@dot: Good to hear that Scorponok is now rid, mostly, of that irritating noise. Any residual noise will be purely the result of owner's curse as you and others have pointed out.

Regards,
spadix

[manim]

85K Service over.
Car is exactly 4 years old.
Amount was Rs.850+tax = Rs.938/-

Not even a blown-fuse so far, thanks Honda!

It is the peak summer with temperatures soaring to 40 deg C, the AC appears to be okay.
However I find the grill temp not as cool as another Civic I compared with.
I will consult with the SA at 90K for any special cleaning or gas-refilling to improve.

So far, no extra work done except for the routine services.
The ownership-experience has been splendid so far.

[jatinpatel]

@spadix

thats the exactly same kind mechanicalish smell i get from my Silver Rocket when i redline her. Not able to trace the problem.

@manim
woah thats a quite a lot of kms you have done, has your suspension or mounts been touched?

[dot]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

In silver rocket the noise is soo faint that to my mum and dad its in audible even to some of my Automaniac friends, so kinda thinking to leave the noise as it is or untill it increases.

There is a test one can carry out. When the car is warmed up completely, come to a standstill. Put gear in park . Then apply hand brake and switch off the blower. Now shift gear to R or D. With hand brake on, the car should not move. Can you hear any noise? Maybe not. Now turn the steering in any direction till it stops at maximum turn. Do you hear any sound. It is at this point, I hear still a faint sound.

I feel that three other things need to be checked. Two of them are idler pulley and belt. I am having extensive discussion with @Guderian on this. (How could I forget to add his name to the thanks list in my previous post. Terrible). The third part is PCV valve. This small part can actually get clogged by sludge coming from crankcase fumes. I did a small test today where I opened the engine oil port lid while the car was idling. Then did the turn test as mentioned in the previous paragraph. The noise is there with or without the lid screwed on the port. Does it say PCV valve is gone. I am not sure. Need to do a pinch test on the valve hose sometime. For that I need some heat resistant gloves. Fortunately I have access to them.

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

Did you feel any change in driving feel post tensioner change ?
The cost which you have mentioned is the price through Honda or your independent garage ? and which manufacturer part you installed ? OEM or any other aftermarket alternative ? Did you ask Honda A.S.S about the replacement cost ?

Could you see any tale tale signs on the autotensioner gone bad that was removed from scorpo ?

The replacement auto tensioner part is genuine Honda. It has 6 months warranty on it. The cost is same as in HASS. After the new auto tensioner has been fixed there is no change in ride quality except the irritating noise has gone down so much. Whew! And since TB has been cleaned, AT oil has been replaced and Honda Idemitsu 5w30 oil been added, the ride has become very smooth.

Edit: Oh, the tale tell sign on the auto tensioner. Do have a look at a picture that I had posted in one of my previous posts.

[jatinpatel]

@dot
can you explain how can a clogged PCV make the noise that you have described cause the oil port thing test that you described has no relation to PCV cause in R18 the PCV takes all the blowby gases which get passed by the piston and cylinder wall gap and also the gases which are in the crankcase and send them to the Intake manifold and this opreation of regulating the amount of blow by gas in the Intake manifold is regulated by ECM and actuated by an actuator.
But still does not explain how does the PCV relate to your problem ?

Check your idler pulley for any excess play.
For the Belt when the belt was removed did you observe any kind of cracks or scars or hardening of the rubber itself ?
Secondly as per your described test the faint sound could be also of the power steering pump as you are loading it excessively on full lock to lock turns, which is not at all advisable.


And one more thing do you also get same kind off smell when you redline your scorpo as mentioned by me and spadix in above posts?

[hiren.mistry]

Originally Posted by dot

@Hiren, are you planning to come to the mega meet. That might be one chance to check out the runners (and meet you ).

I would love to but looks like the meet was over the past weekend
After a long time spent quality time with the car by washing and polishing it. Felt nice.

[mdsaab]

@gaurav_chopra04
first of all thanks for the long, detailed and very informative post. Just hitting the thanks button on that one was clearly not enough.

1. The tip on buffing is duly noted and i shall visit the ASC to check on the scratches again and make sure there are no cracks.

2. I am quite puzzled as to why i have not received an estimate as yet. and as you rightly said one should have been given within 20 minutes. It's been long enough, and as soon as i finish this post i am going to give the SA a call to find out what's going on.

3. Thanks for shedding some light on the depreciation value. This has saved me a visit to the insurance thread and i will put this across to the ASC if they argue on this matter. and as you suggested i am going to go through the insurance policy and incase of dispute will know where to point to on the policy.

4. I will definately speak to an agent from TATA AIG and get a quote for the zero dep policy. i thought it was only for the first three years, so great you pointed out that it's till 5 and IMO well worth the extra couple of K's.
Will i face any issue though considering i just went in for a claim? because i will not get any NCB this time round.

Again really appreciate the time and effort you put in to help me out with these issues. Thanks again.

@spadix
thanks for pointing out an area which most definately needs to be looked into. will get the guys at Honda to do a thorough check. I am not too happy with the service this time round. It's different going in for regular maintenance, and a different ball game going in for anything accident related. not receiving an estimate yet is really poor service.

I shall head to your thread and read of your experience on Phonda ghat. Was one wild return journey we had from Goa and really tired me out till we hit the expressway again. But now that one knows the route it's quite the enthusiasts road to take.
My wife and i could smell petrol, though you may be right it could be heated metal. It was strange and i did get a bit worried, not being on our regular route and all. and since you have experienced Phonda ghat, you know it's not a place you want to be stranded. Have not had a whiff of that smell after that trip though, even on the rather enthusiastic butter smooth ghats up to Lavasa.

@dot
When are we meeting? want to have a drive and check the noise. Hopefully i will be able to post that the noise has indeed vanished into thin air now, and as others clearly mention this could be a case of OOCND (Owners Obsessive Compulsive Noise Disorder)

@hiren.mistry
Thanks for the support and morale boost. Hope to be back on the AT road again soon.

Drive Safe!

[dot]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

can you explain how can a clogged PCV make the noise that you have described cause the oil port thing test that you described has no relation to PCV cause in R18 the PCV takes all the blowby gases which get passed by the piston and cylinder wall gap and also the gases which are in the crankcase and send them to the Intake manifold and this opreation of regulating the amount of blow by gas in the Intake manifold is regulated by ECM and actuated by an actuator.
But still does not explain how does the PCV relate to your problem ?

Honda PCV valves tick, it is a known phenomenon. It seems 06 Civic Si's have serious ticking issues which may appear like idler pulley sound. Moreover PCV valve can be clogged if engine oil has not been changed on time.

Though I know Scorponok's engine oil was changed on time, this time's old oil had some grime in it. So maybe it is possible that the PCV valve could have some clogging. I might change it at some point, it is inexpensive and a good one helps in better engine life.

How open oil cap may throw a light on PCV operation? I have a theory, not sure if it is valid or not. As you know blow-by gas is routed through the PCV system into the intake manifold. If the valve is clogged and a sound is coming due to that, opening the oil cap while the engine is running will ensure that blow-by gas escapes from oil port. So PCV system maybe nullified and may not make any sound. I am not sure if this theory is junk or makes sense. But I tried testing nevertheless.

I also tried a pinch test today. While the engine was on, tried pinching the PCV hose. There was no change in the note of engine.

Maybe I am suffering from a serious case of OOCND!

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

And one more thing do you also get same kind off smell when you redline your scorpo as mentioned by me and spadix in above posts?

No smell ever noted.

Originally Posted by hiren.mistry

I would love to but looks like the meet was over the past weekend

The meet is on 11th June.

[jatinpatel]

Yes you are under going oocnd syndrome

@mdsaab
Please rescue dot from this syndrome

[manim]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

woah thats a quite a lot of kms you have done, has your suspension or mounts been touched?

No, I never had any problems/replacements over this period (4 years and 85K kms) for any parts except for the routine ones.
(Only one problem which I had posted earlier, shuddering during braking which was solved after I replaced the front discs along with the pads for around Rs.10K at 40K kms).