[Viraat13]

Originally Posted by DudeWithaFiat

Hi all,

I'm going to look at a 1997 W124 250D with 1,62,000 km on it next week. Any tips on what to look for? Owner says the vehicle is in excellent condition. IIRC, the 1997s were built in India with India-specific specs?

Thank You.

162,000 is on the high side. But it shouldn't be a problem if the mileage is genuine and the maintenance was regular.

Yes, 1997 is the Indian one, the major Indian things about them were the seats, tyres, and the battery (which were installed here) and higher coil springs, and apparently a thicker engine protection plate.

Look out for rust, especially under the doors, inside the boot, and around the battery. Make sure the dashboard and the wood inside is pristine as well, that is something you can't fix. Rest, you have plenty of time, and the internet is a wonderful place — there is a lot of information right here, and there are plenty of GOOD W124 buyer guides. Read through them all, and you'll have a very good idea of what to look out for. I'd recommend you take someone along with you who has an idea of how these older Mercedes are supposed to behave, and feel. That information could be very very useful indeed. (EDIT – Unless of course you yourself have a fair idea, in which case, it's not really needed all that much.)

Good luck!

[FlatOut]

Too narrow? Well, Mercedes didn't think so. The Sportline cars (slightly lower ride height, stiffer springs and damping, faster steering box and smaller steering wheel) had 205/60/15s fitted on 7 inch rims.

My Audi A6 TDi runs on the same size and that is a very quick car (135mph) which I drive with gusto. In Britain they usually came with the 205/60/15 which makes them a little quicker through roundabouts and through slower corners, but were usually fitted with the narrower tyre in Europe - where speeds are generally higher.

There seems to be a bit of a disease regarding over-sized wheels, and low ride and stiff suspension - it's high time it was cured so drivers can once again enjoy a stable, smooth and balanced ride which doesn't fall apart when the surface varies. And ride dictates handling - if the suspension can't do its job properly then a car will not handle as well as it can. Cars have got bigger of course, so this 195/65/15 is now the size which a VW Golf/Skoda Octavia uses.

The latest E-class appear to use very low profile sidewall tyres (40), but the rest of the suspension will have been engineered for this, with a more compliant strut-top bush, for starters. But I can't help thinking it's fashion dictating this - surely it makes more sense to filter out small imperfections before they reach the hub and damping? As recently as 2010 an E-class had a much more sensible tyre size - 225/55/16.

It may yet go full circle - I await the return of balloon tyres and amazing ride quality through potholes!

[blackcloud]

well, this is my first post on TeamBHP. I bought a used E220 with 1.1lakh on the odo in Bangalore more than a year back. So far, I've changed the fuel pressure regulator and the fan belt tensioner. Got her shod with 205/65 R15 Michelin XM2s. Was a bit skeptical about this unconventional upgrade but I must say I am very happy with the tyres!

On a different note, I want to get the throttle body replaced. What is the correct part number for this. I found 3 part numbers on the web that got me confused:
MERCEDES-BENZ 000 141 70 25
MERCEDES-BENZ 000 141 92 25 (this is the most common I think)
MERCEDES-BENZ 001 141 02 25

Which of these part numbers is the correct one?

[Ravindra M]

Originally Posted by Viraat13

I shall put up the guide on the tail lamp replacement in a couple of days. I'll probably click the photographs while I'm at the mechanics tomorrow.

Hi Viraat, Did you get a chance to click the work in progress ?

[DudeWithaFiat]

Thanks Viraat. Like I had said in my previous post, I will be looking at this 1997 250D W124 on Monday or Tuesday.

Seller claims that the car is in immaculate condition and there is no work to be done. He had done the last service in February. I am yet to ask the details of the service since we were conversing on phone and I thought it would be better if I ask those details in person. The following are my questions:

1. Suspension:- The car has done 1,62,000km. I am assuming that he must have got the suspension done around 1L km and since he says all the parts are genuine, the suspension components should be genuine. How do I confirm that? Are there any names/markings or shapes that I can look for to confirm that the suspension components are genuine?

2. AC:- If the AC cools good, is that all I need to say that AC should be okay and should not be in need of an imminent service there?

3. Mount points:- How many of them? What should be the condition of the mounts of a W124 that has run 1,62,000km. I had looked at a W124 last month that displayed only 1,10,000km on the odo, but as soon as the engine was started, the whole car was jerking at idling. And I felt like I was sitting inside a lorry.

4. Electricals:- What could be signs of a service at that area? A seeming minor issue like power-window or an indicator not working could be a harbinger of an overhauling? Or it could genuinely be a minor niggling issue that I can ignore (considering that I`m 'vehicle' lucky)

5. NVH:- I know that a 1997 W124 diesel will sound like a lorry from the outside, but as soon as my ears are inside the car, everything should be peaceful. Anything that is common for a 160k old W124? Dashboard, steering rattles?

6. Body :- I'm pretty confident I can find it if anything is amiss there

7. Last question: What are the things I should check for while test driving the car?

Thanks in advance

[vikramvicky1984]

Originally Posted by DudeWithaFiat

Thanks Viraat. Like I had said in my previous post, I will be looking at this 1997 250D W124 on Monday or Tuesday.

Seller claims that the car is in immaculate condition and there is no work to be done. He had done the last service in February. I am yet to ask the details of the service since we were conversing on phone and I thought it would be better if I ask those details in person. The following are my questions:

1. Suspension:- The car has done 1,62,000km. I am assuming that he must have got the suspension done around 1L km and since he says all the parts are genuine, the suspension components should be genuine. How do I confirm that? Are there any names/markings or shapes that I can look for to confirm that the suspension components are genuine?

2. AC:- If the AC cools good, is that all I need to say that AC should be okay and should not be in need of an imminent service there?

3. Mount points:- How many of them? What should be the condition of the mounts of a W124 that has run 1,62,000km. I had looked at a W124 last month that displayed only 1,10,000km on the odo, but as soon as the engine was started, the whole car was jerking at idling. And I felt like I was sitting inside a lorry.

4. Electricals:- What could be signs of a service at that area? A seeming minor issue like power-window or an indicator not working could be a harbinger of an overhauling? Or it could genuinely be a minor niggling issue that I can ignore (considering that I`m 'vehicle' lucky)

5. NVH:- I know that a 1997 W124 diesel will sound like a lorry from the outside, but as soon as my ears are inside the car, everything should be peaceful. Anything that is common for a 160k old W124? Dashboard, steering rattles?

6. Body :- I'm pretty confident I can find it if anything is amiss there

7. Last question: What are the things I should check for while test driving the car?

Thanks in advance

Will try and help here
1 Suspension : just drive over potholes and bad roads and you'll hear noises. Even if it was overhauled at 1 lakh kms, i would suggest to overhaul again as 62k kms is a long period. why not have perfect suspension, it should run like a true merc na! ( max budget: 1 lakh)

2 AC: No need to touch if its cooling. Later a cooling coil (4.5k), and service should be fine when there is an issue

3. Mounts: I also faced the jerking and you can feel vibrations when you place your foot on the accelerator. Mountings aren't very expensive (don't exactly remember but maybe well under 15k for both engine and gearbox mounts).

4. Electricals: Expensive (if wiring harness gone) else just fuses gone bad (cleaning fuse box and replacing all fuses will do the trick). Get it verified extensively. (more details in link below)

5. NVH: Outside even petrol makes noise due to AC fan ( typical mercedes). However it is super quiet inside. Never heard dashboard rattles in even the worst kept w124s. Doors will make little noise and leather may be hard due to age

6. body: look for rust( details in link below)

7. I used a printout ( and ticked/commented on each point) of the link by our merc guru V-16 when I was looking for cars, worked great for me

Originally Posted by V-16

Guys this one is a no bummer. 4.85 is definitely a lot of money to ask for a car of that vintage and however well maintained, im sure will have its share of expenses.

Having owned a few myself ill just put done what to look for when buying an E220.
10 Just because the mileage is low does not mean the car is well maintained. I know of many low mileage cars left without use and in the end, one gets a huge cost of wire harnesses, injectors, brakes, etc etc. I could be a nightmare. So i would look for a well used car or rather a car well kept, whatever the mileage.

Go for one without an overcoat or any extensive body damage. These 124s were built like tanks and are very very reliable, not to mention they dont cost an arm and a leg to fix. Parts are relatively easy to find and so are mechanics who would be qualified to work on them.

Look for rust around the rear light cluster and on and around the windscreen rubbers. The rear light surround is one place that really rusts. Also in the boot at the wheel well. Remove the rubber matting and check. Mostly all the rubber matting hides is the rust below with water seeping in and settling below the mat.

Check the windscreen rubbers and if hard, have them replaced. Will save you a lot of leaks and future rust headaches.

Things to check mechanically.

Check for idling and as in all mercs the Oil level when revved.

Get the wiring harness checked from a qualified electrician. This can get expensive to replace and was known to be a problem area with all Indian spec W124s.

Check for any warning lights conterminously on and dont believe the talk that its only a minor wiring issue. more often than not its not so easy.

Check that when the ign. is on before cranking the oil, srs, engine check (and heater in case if the 250D) etc all come on and go off when the car is fired. Many fly by night dealers will just cut supply to any check light...no light so the problem is fixed....right???...Well WRONG!!

Drive the Merc. The steering is a bit hard, so dont expect Honda City type soft steering. This is not a EPC, its a pump driven thing. Check for noises when turned clock to clock and held there.

Most 124s also had a recurring problem of the fan belt tensioner going bad and making strange sound. Check fo rthat noise.

Check the brakes for sponginess or pad/disc wear. Drive and JAm hard, feel if the ABS kicks in, there should be a pulsating feeling on the pedal when jammed, this means the ABS is working.

Check all the buttons in the car are there and working. These can me hard to find.

Check for the Vaccum system that operates the locking by operating the central locking which should be working coz replacing this is expensive again and Autocop is certainly not an option. The drivers lock goes in forst and subsequently the other three, so dont worry if they all dont go down together, thats the way it was meant to be. Upon locking and holding the key in a left position for a few seconds, the car should lock itself and if any windows are down, they should all come up. Check in the manual for the details on this.

If there is a vibration the car, check the mounts. Even the Diesel was relatively vibration free. Noisy yes but vibration free.

Automatic variants of the E220 are very rare but the E250D was quite common. Check for anything other than smooth gear shifts and the kickdown.

Suspension was almost invulnerable but thats a minor point and is easily detected.
Other than this the car had few niggles.

The quality of the interior will tell you lots about its usage. Any changed interiors should be questioned.

Basically get someone who knows his Mercs to come and have a look. That will be worth a lot. I would not really go 100% with these authorized dealers diagnosis, they will more often than not present a gloomy picture with a lot of expenses, rather get it checked from a good garage whom you trust.

After this strike the deal and enjoy this beauty for years altogether!!

[DudeWithaFiat]

Originally Posted by vikramvicky1984

Will try and help here

Thanks a lot Vikram. Definitely helpful. Thanks for the checklist too. I will use them too. Shall update after I look at the car.

[Viraat13]

Originally Posted by DudeWithaFiat

1. Suspension:- The car ... components are genuine?

2. AC:- If the ... imminent service there?

3. Mount points:- How ... inside a lorry.

4. Electricals:- What could ... I'm 'vehicle' lucky)

5. NVH:- I know ... Dashboard, steering rattles?

6. Body :- I'm pretty confident I can find it if anything is amiss there

7. Last question: What are the things I should check for while test driving the car?

Thanks in advance

1. Ideally speaking, the suspension should last 80,000 km. If the suspension is in need of work, the ride will not feel very planted, and the car will not feel as agile as it should. It'll also make a few squeaks and groans over rough roads. You'll only be able to see the markings when the components are out of the car, plus there is a high chance that the markings would have disappeared by now.

2. If the AC is cooling well, let it be. But you should undertake some preventive maintenance by getting the blower motor serviced, the condenser pressure washed, and checking if the gas is leaking.

3. Two engine mounts, one gearbox mount. Should be changed every 30,000 km or so. The diesel can vibrate a whole lot if the mounts are worn down.
In fact, inspect the diesel filter inside the bonnet carefully, if you see any diesel leaking down, it would explain why the engine is vibrating so much as diesel destroys rubber and one of the engine mounts is prone to damage in this fashion. Always replace engine mounts in pairs, and never individually.

4. The diesel doesn't have too many electrical worries as the engine is simple and lacks the plethora of sensors that the E220 has. A few electrical problems are bound to be found. But as long as it is something simple like the power window or mirror not working, it can be easily fixed.

5. The diesel is noisy on start up, but after it is warmed up, it quietens down by a huge amount. In fact, it sounds quite nice after the initial lorry like sounds. The E250D is better insulated than the E220, so you hear less of the outside world in the diesel. The dashboard shouldn't have any rattles, the doors might complain when opening or closing, but it can easily be fixed with some WD40 or grease spray inside the hinges. To make it simple, there should be no rattles, but if they are, then it ought to be fairly obvious what is making the noise, and subsequently, easy to fix.

6. Check for rust inside the wheel arches, the rear wheel arches are especially prone to rusting. Also check around the battery, as a leaking battery will cause a lot of damage around it, and sometimes even under the AC blower unit (right under the wiper motor). Also, if the rubber lining of the boot is torn, I can say with certainty that there will be some rust somewhere. Ranging from the mounting point of the lining, to the storage wells on the sides.
But, if there is no rust on the body panels, the rest of the things can be easily fixed.

7. I think there is more than enough information available about this. But, don't expect a light clutch, it isn't heavy by any means, but it's not going to feel like a Swift or something.

Originally Posted by Ravindra M

Hi Viraat, Did you get a chance to click the work in progress ?

The pictures are ready, I shall upload a guide sometime today.

[Viraat13]

Hi guys,

After much delay I've gotten down to uploading this pictorial guide to removing the tail lamp

STEP 1 —
Remove the panel that holds the bulbs. This is pretty easy, so there is no picture attached. You can choose to disconnect the entire unit at put it aside, but I didn't feel the need to do this.

STEP 2 —
Now you have to open the 6 size 10 nuts using a spanner or socket set (much easier). There are only five visible in picture number 1. After removing the nuts, you have to press down on the tabs of the indicator reflector (which have been marked) with a screwdriver or something similar. After this, you should be able to pull out the entire plastic panel. You might have to struggle with it a little, but it shouldn't be much trouble.

STEP 3 —
Now comes the hard part, as you can see in picture number 2, the tail lamp glass is now visible. There is every chance that the rubber has stuck to the body, and the dirt inside it is also jamming it in place. Wrap a cloth around your hand and then tap the glass around the edges. You should see some amount of shifting. Then, some consistent hard pressure on the bottom left corner (when viewing from inside) should set it free. The lens is plenty strong, and you will most certainly end up using more force than what you imagined. I assure you, there is no lock or tab or anything else holding it, it's only the rubber fused onto the body, and muck underneath the rubber lining. The only way is to force it out. But be warned, only put the pressure around the edges, if you put force right in the middle of the glass, it might break. Make sure you don't push the lens out on to the ground, keep your other hand there to hold it.

STEP 4 —
The glass should be out and you should be seeing what you see in picture number 3. If you're as lucky as me, you'll see no rust and pristine paint underneath. Clean up the mess that you see, and make sure the lens is clean too.

STEP 5 —
To put everything back together, you first put the lens in place, and then the black plastic panel over it. Then you tighten all the nuts with your hand, and then use your tool of choice to tighten it further. Once this is done, check if the lens is looking okay from the outside. It's probably not, so you push that part of the lens in from the outside, and tighten the corresponding nuts even further. What I did was push in the lens and then tighten all the bolts in a circular manner, and then pushed it in even harder, and tightened them all over again to get the perfect fit.

WARNINGS —
I do not take any responsibility for anything that goes wrong. I have done this procedure twice for two tail lamps, with success and zero damage. I do not recommend this for anyone who doesn't have a feel of things, which is to say if you're not a good judge of the strength of any of components, you might push too hard on the lens and damage it, or you might over tighten a nut and crack something else. Use your common sense and your own judgement over and above everything else.

Having said that, I am more than willing to answer any questions that you might have.
I hope this helps!
Cheers!

[ayushagarwal26]

Rather than contributing to all the technical knowledge on the thread (thanks 124 veterans; it's helped me no end even though I don't have a lot to share!), I tend to post silly/random stuff, like this one. However, I'm sure we'll all enjoy it!

Spent an afternoon walking around in Mill Valley, CA, and was surprised to see a bunch of beautifully maintained 124's, 126's, 140's and what not. Here you go:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/beyond...alifornia.html

[supercars]

Originally Posted by FlatOut

As for spares, these cars were used as taxis throughout Europe for years, in fact in many countries they still are. Germany doesn't quite see a motor car in the terms of prestige we British and you Indians do - they're far more sensible about such things. And so there was never the same premium on parts prices, which rubs off in the aftermarket and second-hand market for 124 parts. They are usually very cheap indeed in Europe, so if you really struggle in India then have a look on British or German ebay. Front brake pads (to Euro spec) are advertised from £2.99 for example - that's about 240 rupees. Many second-hand parts are regularly advertised on ebay also, all at good prices.

So don't get worried about spares, there's always a way! A few 124 owners on this forum could club together and order a load of spares via myself if it turns out prices here are a lot cheaper than in India. Postage is sometimes less than you would imagine.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-E...item4170b131e5

This is not a W124 Brake Pad. It is atleast not the front one. I read somewhere that a Textar one comes only for 2000/-. I get it 3000/- in Mumbai. I would also love to know how to get Original Textar Front Brake pads for around 2000/-.

Originally Posted by Viraat13

The ride is firm, I'll agree. But it's not really uncomfortable. The sporty suspension set up, and the larger wheels make it a far more involving car to drive. In the E220, with the stock set up, I don't really have to slow down for minor bumps or speed breakers (This doesn't mean I go flying over them, but take them at a speed of say 40 km/h. This is really quite hard to explain, as it's so contextualised!). But in the other car, a concious effort has to be made. The car doesn't really suffer from tramlining, you have to keep in mind, our conditions are far worse than yours. No road is really that smooth, so constant steering input is something that is a necessity in any case! The steering is only slightly heavier, and the only problem area I see is that the outside edges of the front tyres are feathering due to the extra width, but this is normal in any car which has wider tyres.

You go at over 40 kmph over speedbreakers ? No wonder you were not allowed to drive alone earlier or there would be no car left at that rate. I just crawl over the speedbreaker. My car touches the speedbreaker.

If you do not mind me asking you, How old are you ?
The W124 is not really a tank.

I would like to thank Viraat and Flatout for clearing out everyone's misconceptions that a bigger tire would give more grip. I love to drive very fast in the twisties and the straights. I understand thus it would be most advisable to keep stock 195/65/15 even for future.

[911varun]

Originally Posted by DudeWithaFiat

Thanks Viraat. Like I had said in my previous post, I will be looking at this 1997 250D W124 on Monday or Tuesday.

Seller claims that the car is in immaculate condition and there is no work to be done. He had done the last service in February. I am yet to ask the details of the service since we were conversing on phone and I thought it would be better if I ask those details in person. The following are my questions:

1. Suspension:- The car has done 1,62,000km. I am assuming that he must have got the suspension done around 1L km and since he says all the parts are genuine, the suspension components should be genuine. How do I confirm that? Are there any names/markings or shapes that I can look for to confirm that the suspension components are genuine?

2. AC:- If the AC cools good, is that all I need to say that AC should be okay and should not be in need of an imminent service there?

3. Mount points:- How many of them? What should be the condition of the mounts of a W124 that has run 1,62,000km. I had looked at a W124 last month that displayed only 1,10,000km on the odo, but as soon as the engine was started, the whole car was jerking at idling. And I felt like I was sitting inside a lorry.

4. Electricals:- What could be signs of a service at that area? A seeming minor issue like power-window or an indicator not working could be a harbinger of an overhauling? Or it could genuinely be a minor niggling issue that I can ignore (considering that I`m 'vehicle' lucky)

5. NVH:- I know that a 1997 W124 diesel will sound like a lorry from the outside, but as soon as my ears are inside the car, everything should be peaceful. Anything that is common for a 160k old W124? Dashboard, steering rattles?

6. Body :- I'm pretty confident I can find it if anything is amiss there

7. Last question: What are the things I should check for while test driving the car?

Thanks in advance

First of all,

The most important thing is how much km the car has done, put your money on a high mileage diesel, low mileage ones will eat you every day.

The second most important is the engine, make sure you have a chance to see the cold start of the engine, check for smoke, engine missing and vibration. Go to the car rather than seller taking it to you.

The harness will not be a problem, its very doable. Get under the rear of the car and see if there is any leakage from the differential.

of course I will not talk about suspension, brakes and interiors, as they would anyways need attention.

Let us know how it goes.

cheers

[Viraat13]

Originally Posted by supercars

You go at over 40 kmph over speedbreakers ? No wonder you were not allowed to drive alone earlier or there would be no car left at that rate. I just crawl over the speedbreaker. My car touches the speedbreaker.

If you do not mind me asking you, How old are you ?
The W124 is not really a tank.

I would like to thank Viraat and Flatout for clearing out everyone's misconceptions that a bigger tire would give more grip. I love to drive very fast in the twisties and the straights. I understand thus it would be most advisable to keep stock 195/65/15 even for future.

Speed breakers are all about perspective. I don't think you're familiar with the roads I drive on.
Besides, it's not about alone or anything. No one drives my fathers car (which ever car it is) except for him, it's a rule in my household. I'm the only one who is allowed to drive it, albeit while he is with me.

You should maybe consider changing your coil pads to the number 3 ones as they are higher, and so I don't need to worry about scraping over things. In fact, my 300E with the relatively lower coil springs (as compared to the India spec W124) and sports shockers doesn't scrape over a single thing either. Or does Bombay only have those horrible obese speed breakers/car breakers?

Regarding the tyres, I've already had a bad experience with oversized tyres on the stock rims, so no changing or experimenting for me either!

[supercars]

I am a bit scared to change to bigger coil pads as the car may become unstable at high speed or in the turns. Can someone confirm or disapprove of my fear ?

Yes at some places Mumbai have bad speed breakers :(

btw do you think my struts have gone weak if the car is touching the speedbreaker ?

I still would highly advise anyone in any vehicle to slow down to a crawl for speedbreakers.

[DudeWithaFiat]

Originally Posted by 911varun

First of all,

The most important thing is how much km the car has done, put your money on a high mileage diesel, low mileage ones will eat you every day.

Something that I really wanted to hear.

Originally Posted by 911varun

Let us know how it goes.

Well, looked at a W124 yesterday at a used-car showroom yesterday and another one at the owner's place today.

The W124 with the used-car dealer:

White.
Body and Interiors : Very neat.
Tyres : Will run for another 10,000km.

Cranked the car, and wow it didn't idle like a 1,61,000km engine. Well, noisy, but it was a healthy noise that it made. It did took a couple of minutes to warm up, after which the noise became a bit smoother. Inside the car, there were no rattles. Impressed by the NVH levels. All the switches and lights work. Pretty impressed. I could check the car only for about 15 minutes since I had to get back to somewhere real quick and I will be going there the day after tomorrow with my Dad and my mechanic. I am pretty sure that our mechanic will show the green flag.

Problem areas: Left side power-window in the back gets stuck just after a few inches it goes down.

Service history : Came to know with the help of another T-bhpian friend's friend who works in an authorized service center that there are no records of this car in their database (which is supposed to be centralized all over India), which could mean it hasn't seen the inside of a Mercedes authorized service center in its life, but then, there are lots of MBs that are taken only to specialist workshops than Service centers.

The second car :

White.
1,66,000km on the odo.

Well, drove the car for about 6 kilometres. Felt more like a smoothened version of our diesel Fiat Uno. I wouldn't say it is f-a-s-t compared to the newer cars, but it was powerful with a bit of diesel lag. No rattles, no vibrations and the car was steady at 90kmph. Very smooth ride, handled the gutters well and very good AC. Impressed .

Problem areas :

Alloys : One of the alloys has discolored at the base of one of the spokes. Seller said its because it had cracked and he had to weld it.

Tyres : No much tread left.

Body : No dents or anything, but not in a 'great' condition either. A few minor, but disturbing small things (like the seal around the antenna missing). Not impressed.

ABS : Not working.

Power windows : The one in the left-back not working.

Verdict : The car drove very well, I'm quite impressed by how it drove, but the body, tyres and alloys and an air-filter cage with two of the clips broken put me down. I won't be buying it. One good thing was, the seller was pretty open about everything and didn't try to cover up anything bad. Service history is partial with a few services at the authorized center and a few outside.

Shall update the thread after checking the used-car dealer's W124 with our mechanic.