[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by Prabal

You think wrong, sir! And, I know what I say; that's why I don't say much!!

Did the Indian Army have Ford and Willys Jeeps (before the Mahindra connection)? Did the Indian Army have Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, Studebaker, etc. trucks (before their Indian assemblies?). Were there Indian and Harley bikes running errands/despatches here too? Did the Indian Air Force use the Packet and Dakota Aircraft (C-82 Packet, by Fairchild Aircraft and Douglas C-47 Skytrain) to give two examples from Aviation? Were these Russian or American?

I don't know much about the Aircrafts but as far as the truck, cars and motorcycles are concerned Prabal is spot on.

The patent in making jeeps was Willys. During the war due to the huge demand they contracted Ford to make jeeps to meet the shortage of vehicles. But then have you ever thought why ford stopped making jeeps after the war years ? This is because the war was over and there was no longer the need for making so many jeeps because the demand had reduced.

Dodge and Chevrolet trucks were the most commonly used ones. Studebakers came in later. The Studebaker Corporation were lossing money and then in 1954-1955 they merged with Packard. In 1956
Studebaker cars were being assembled India by Hindustan motors in Calcutta. The 1956 model cars were sold here till late 1958. Then the Studebaker -Packard corporation then started supplying trucks to the Indian Army and thought that things would get better for the company but then the TATA - Mercedes trucks came with diesel engined trucks and the army started using those.

[wasif]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

I don't know much about the Aircrafts but as far as the truck, cars and motorcycles are concerned Prabal is spot on.

The patent in making jeeps was Willys. During the war due to the huge demand they contracted Ford to make jeeps to meet the shortage of vehicles. But then have you ever thought why ford stopped making jeeps after the war years ? This is because the war was over and there was no longer the need for making so many jeeps because the demand had reduced.

Dodge and Chevrolet trucks were the most commonly used ones. Studebakers came in later. The Studebaker Corporation were lossing money and then in 1954-1955 they merged with Packard. In 1956
Studebaker cars were being assembled India by Hindustan motors in Calcutta. The 1956 model cars were sold here till late 1958. Then the Studebaker -Packard corporation then started supplying trucks to the Indian Army and thought that things would get better for the company but then the TATA - Mercedes trucks came with diesel engined trucks and the army started using those.

The US Government had the original Jeep design approved and then contracted both Ford & Willys to make them. It was not Willys contracting Ford.

Also the Studybaker Corp was not actually loosing money when the bought out Packard. This was doen to add a high end make to their car range.

Sales of Study Trucks in India were very limited.

[Prabal]

AFAIK, it was Bantam that was given the first go-ahead fro the Jeep, later also awarded to Willys and Ford due to Bantam's limitations, due to scale of operations.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

As US will never have sold Indian Army or DoD any equipment whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Prabal

Did the Indian Air Force use the Packet and Dakota Aircraft (C-82 Packet, by Fairchild Aircraft and Douglas C-47 Skytrain) to give two examples from Aviation? Were these Russian or American?

IAF also used Sikorsky S-55 helicopters and B-24 Liberator bombers, both American. American spy planes regularly used Indian airfields to fly over China during Nehru's premiership. Sometime in early 1960s, the relationship deteriorated and India went the Soviet way. India bought the MiG 21s from Soviets partially due to US reluctance to sell the F-104 Starfighter that was supplied to the Pakis.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by wasif

The US Government had the original Jeep design approved and then contracted both Ford & Willys to make them. It was not Willys contracting Ford.

If that is so then why did ford stop making jeeps after the war?

Originally Posted by wasif

Also the Studybaker Corp was not actually loosing money when the bought out Packard. This was doen to add a high end make to their car range.

The Studebaker Corp was already loosing money before its merger with Packard. From 1954 to 1958, the Studebaker-Packard Corporation never had a profitable year.Because of this, the Packard line was discontinued in 1958. The 1957 and 1958 Packards were actually Studebakers with special interiors and Packard trim.

Although Studebaker's sales position took a nose dive after 1950, Studebaker maintained a strong gas economy image throughout the 1950's. Studebaker was a constant standout in the Mobilgas Economy Runs.

[wasif]

Ford was contarcted to make a certain amount of Jeeps. This ended after the war and thats why they stopped making them.

The patent on this design was with Willys but it was the US Govet that ordered them built at Ford to make up for the small production capacity at Willys.

Packard was bought by Studebaker and they didn't merge with Packard.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by wasif

Ford was contarcted to make a certain amount of Jeeps. This ended after the war and thats why they stopped making them.

The patent on this design was with Willys but it was the US Govet that ordered them built at Ford to make up for the small production capacity at Willys.

Ok will do some more research and get some more facts and figures.

Originally Posted by wasif

Packard was bought by Studebaker and they didn't merge with Packard.

I am sure that the company had a merger with Packard.In this merger Packard would be buying Studebaker and not the other way around. Here is something for your info -

Time Magazine ,1954: “For weeks the auto industry has been alive with rumors of a merger between Studebaker and Packard so that the two independents could compete better against the Big Three. This week directors of the two companies scheduled a meeting in Manhattan to close the deal, tie up a few loose ends, and pick a boss for their hopeful new company.
In effect, Packard will take over Studebaker. Packard President James J. Nance, 53, who has put new life into Packard, will take over as president of the new company. Studebaker’s Board Chairman Paul Hoffman will become board chairman of Studebaker-Packard, and Studebaker’s President Harold S. Vance chairman of the executive committee.
Champion & Limousine. If the merger goes through, it will be the third for the auto industry in a little more than a year (the others: Kaiser-Willys, Nash-Hud-son). But it is a necessary step and a shrewd move for both. The two independents have steadily lost ground in 1954’s red-hot auto race. Packard sales are down 53%, Studebaker’s 55%; both lost money in the first quarter—$6,000,000 for Studebaker and $380,000 for Packard. By joining forces, they can put together a sales organization of some 3,900 dealers across the U.S., and offer customers a complete line of cars from the cheapest Studebaker Champion ($1,700) to the most luxurious Packard Limousine ($7,500).
There are other benefits. Packard has been long on engineering, short on the kind of racy-looking design that helps sell cars. Studebaker, with its long, low cars, has been a style pacesetter. The combined company should also be able to cut production costs.
Book v. Market. The merger will involve a straight stock transfer. Packard shareholders are expected to get one share in the new company for every five they own and Studebaker stockholders to get 12 shares in the combined company for every one of Studebaker stock. The exchange deal was based on the book value of the two stocks. Though Packard’s total assets are only slightly less than Studebaker’s, the per-share book value of its stock is far less because it has 14,491,000 shares compared to only 2,361,000 for Studebaker. Thus one share of Studebaker (valued at $42.81) equals 7½ shares of Packard (valued at $5.70 a share). On the New York Stock Exchange the spread was not as great; Studebaker was selling for $19 and Packard for $4, a ratio of only about five to one. On this basis, some Packard stockholders may complain that they are getting shortchanged, especially since this exchange would leave Studebaker shareholders with 55% of the new company. But they are not likely to hold up the merger, since neither company can do better alone.

To begin with, Packard and Studebaker will have about 3% of the total auto mar ket. The big question is whether the new company will be big enough to compete successfully against the Big Three. Roaring along at full speed, the giants have pulled even farther ahead of the independ ents this year. General Motors now has 48% of the market, Ford 31%, Chrysler 15%—a total of 94%. Around Detroit last week, the talk is of still another merger eventually. This time auto experts believe it will be between Studebaker-Packard and the newly formed American Motors (Nash and Hudson).

[harit]

Originally Posted by wasif

The US Government had the original Jeep design approved and then contracted both Ford & Willys to make them. It was not Willys contracting Ford. Sales of Study Trucks in India were very limited.

The Indian Army did use a number of Studebaker trucks.

Originally Posted by Prabal

AFAIK, it was Bantam that was given the first go-ahead for the Jeep, later also awarded to Willys and Ford due to Bantam's limitations, due to scale of operations.

Hi Prabal, nice to see you once in a while.
As far as I remember, the American Govt invited proposals for a design for a General Purpose vehicle,= GP = JEEP where the design of Bantam was found to be the best. Bantam did build them, but apparently there are none to be found in India. When a huge number was required due to the war, the US government gave contracts to Willys and Ford, they built the Jeeps to Bantam's design. But the engine was Willys design. When the war was over, the government contracts were stopped, and Willys continued and also offered a civilian version. Maybe they bought a licence from Bantam, they anyway did not continue after the war.
Bantam also built a famous trailer.
Bantam was originally called The American Austin Co and they built Americanised Austin Seven in America, and no parts are interchangeable with the original Austin. There are two 1938 Bantam cars surviving near Mumbai, and one more rumoured in Gujrat with a changed engine.

Originally Posted by SirAlec

AFAIK ONGC doesn't have Mack, they have purposebuilt Kenworth and Peterbilt. I have posted the images of them too somewhere. I don't think Indian Army ever used Mack, They were provided with Russian trucks. As US will never have sold Indian Army or DoD any equipment whatsoever.

Sirji Alec, ONGC in Gujrat did have Mack trucks. I personally saw this cab with that doggy on the bonnet. ONGC did import equipment which was mounted on trucks, perhaps these came in that way. Peterbilt trucks could be seen till recently in Panvel.

Cheers harit

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

Ok will do some more research and get some more facts and figures.

IS,

As per published info the following was the case

Quote:

After the war, Ford unsuccessfully sued Willys for the rights to the term “Jeep," leaving Willys with full rights to the name. Afterwards, Willys took its four-wheel drive vehicle to the public with its CJ (Civilian Jeep) versions, making these some of the first mass-produced 4x4 civilian vehicles ever. Willys were granted the Trademark in 1950.

Unquote:

There is some extensive info concised in wikipedia (this info is available elsewhere as well if you have doubts [rightly] on good old wiki) in the link below:

Willys MB - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Best Regards & Drive/Ride Safe

Ram

[SirAlec]

Hold your horses people. no need to go that off topic. We do have separate thread to discuss willys

Question remains, "Did indian army had any Mack trucks.?"

@ harit i visit ONGC, Mehsana often. and never saw a Mack. But the Mack that I posted also works on the same route, but is owned by Irrigation Department.

BTW
Ofcourse Indian used lot of american stuff, as Indian Army was also part of Allies in WWII, isn't it. And US did promote lend lease a lot at that time with Britian, Canada and even Russia.

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

Hold your horses people. no need to go that off topic. We do have separate thread to discuss willys

Why not discuss willys ? Its not completely off topic. It is related to the vehicles the indian army had which is being discussed. If there is no need to discuss then why don't the mods move those posts out and open a thread for army vehicles or shift them to the apropriate thread?

Sorry if you didn't like it but that's my opinion .

[agspins]

Ofcourse Indian used lot of american stuff, as Indian Army was also part of Allies in WWII, isn't it. And US did promote lend lease a lot at that time with Britian, Canada and even Russia.

Here is one pic of Studebaker trucks used by British Indian army on famous Stilwell/Ledo road in 1945 during WWII

[SirAlec]

Originally Posted by agspins

Here is one pic of Studebaker trucks used by British Indian army on famous Stilwell/Ledo road in 1945 during WWII

thanks for sharing the images.


@ Dear Indrojit
There is nothing to like or not like. its an open forum.
But every time we discuss something people shift the focus off the topic to something else and the main aim of thread is lost.

since you seems to know so much about indian army and its logistics, can you verify if they used any buldogger, the mighty Mack.

-thanks

[IndrojitSircar]

Originally Posted by SirAlec

@ Dear Indrojit
There is nothing to like or not like. its an open forum.
But every time we discuss something people shift the focus off the topic to something else and the main aim of thread is lost.

That is exactly my point but we can't tell who to post what and not post what. Agreed but sometimes we learn something in the process.

Originally Posted by SirAlec

since you seems to know so much about indian army and its logistics, can you verify if they used any buldogger, the mighty Mack.

-thanks

I am no authority on the Indian army or its logistics but what ever little i know is that the Mack trucks were used by the Indian Army.

[SirAlec]

Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar

That is exactly my point but we can't tell who to post what and not post what. Agreed but sometimes we learn something in the process.

Agreed! but that makes the thread very user unfriendly for new users, who are searching for answers and they had to go through lot of unrelated posts.