[Sam Kapasi]

Rudra has been there often Jaggu. He can help you and he knows them. I think Rudra knows everyone.

[Jaggu]

oh ok, i guess i know of him, heard of him through rudy..
rudy is anyways after me, so i shall do the honors..

[johy]

Hi folks,

I am pondering over an ICE upgrade. I just got Aura rims for my car a couple of days back, so budget is a little constrained.

1) Budget 10K and less (lesser the better).
2) Present setup:

a) Pioneer HU 5850MPH: DEH-P5850MPH

Features

• • Pure blue dot-matrix OEL (Organic EL) display
  • WAV file playback
  • iPod® adaptor ready
  • BMX (Bitmetric qualizer)
  • EEQ
    • 5-mode preset equalizer
    • 1-mode custom preset equalizer
    • 3-band parametric equalizer
    • EQ-EX
    • 2-way crossover: HPF/LPF
    • 3-mode selectable loudness
  • Rotary Volume
  • Direct Sub Drive
  • 2 RCA preouts: selectable (front + subwoofer / front + non-fading)
  • level indicator

b) Front speakers: JBL GTO437

c) Rear speakers: JBL GTO637 (Presently installed in two separate boxes that sits on the boot floor.

3) Upgrade needed for: Subwoofer and Amp.

4) Kind of music I listen to: Varied. Mostly Country and Western (Glen Campbell, Bobby Goldsboro, Don Williams, Dan Seals, The Judds, etc). Soft Rock (Smokie et al), R&B (now and then), Western Classical (Mostly Mozart).

5) Kind of music I am looking forward to - good quality (within budget). I hate the LOUD boom boom boom - the quality must be refined.

6) What is the best route that I can take? I am willing to go for an MDF tray if required.

help.

[Sam Kapasi]

Well johy baba, because it's a small hatch and because you listen to tight music, you definitely need a 10" or 12" sub in a sealed enclosure.
You can either buy a subwoofer driver and build a box (according to the specs provided) or buy a readymade sealed box (safer because you're in siliguri)
Add a Pioneer amplifier, since youre on a budget.

MDF tray? For what?

[johy]

Thanks Sam Saarji,

I will go for a ready-made sealed enclosure with sub, probably a 10" one to save some bucks.

The pioneer amp - which model should I be looking at?

The MDF idea - given to me by one of the local vendors, says place both rear ovals (they are presently in two separate boxes like in this picture below along with the sub driver. Won't 3 boxes sitting back there look some crowded ?

[johy]

-What about a 10" or 12" ported subwoofer tube? (sorry thought came 20 mins late)

[hydrashok]

Originally Posted by johy

-What about a 10" or 12" ported subwoofer tube? (sorry thought came 20 mins late)

Well Johy, if you like tight, non-boomy bass, you'll most likely not like the sound of the tubes. But that said, do give them a listen. Who knows, maybe you might like a bit of boom too

Maybe a ported box could also be ok -- Less tighter bass than a sealed box, but definitely more tighter and defined bass than a tube. You'll be able to get away with a less powerful amp (than a sealed box needs) too.

[johy]

Thanks, I get the picture. Where I live, it might be difficult to lay hands on a bass tube to be able to listen to it before purchase.

Right now, I am leaning towards the sealed enclosure, but will see if I can find a tube.

Big question

Bass tube - which amp?
Sealed box - which amp?
Ported box - which amp?

Models #s if possible please. Budget limited (as outlined above)

Secondly, I know you get a JBL sealed box (12"), but do you get a 10" one? Also, what about Pioneer ready-made products? Any good ones in that budget?

[hydrashok]

@ johy, assuming your budget for an amp is below 14K,

Bass Tube -- Pio 6100/6200 (4-ch) or JBL CS60.4 (4-ch) will do. (You also have other options from Blau - GTA275 2-ch amp or GTA 475 4-ch amp if you want to consider Blau).
Sealed Box -- Definitely something like the JBL GTO75.4 (4-ch) -- you need more power for the sealed sub.
Ported box -- either of the choices given above. But the 75.4 will give much better output.

All are 4-ch amps, so you can use the spare 2 chs to power your front speakers. The Pio6100/6200 will run to about 7K, the JBL CS 60.4 to about 8K, the Blau GTA275 to about 6K, the GTA475 to about 11K and the JBL GTO75.4 to about 13K.

Add about 4K-5K to the amp's cost for cabling (Power + RCA).

I don't think JBL has a sealed 10" sub-in-a-box. Only 12" AFAIK. Not much idea about Pio boxed subs. The entry-level Pio subs (drivers only, not boxed ones) are all about boom, and less definition.

If on a tight budget, and you want a sealed sub, get a JBL GT4-12 sub-driver (about 5K) [or a GT4-10 10" sub driver @ 4K if you have a small Hatch] and build a sealed box (about 1.5k), and get a GTO75.4 to amp it. The overall will work out lesser than buying the JBL's sealed sub-in-a-box (GT1204B). This way your total is about 19.5K.

If you buy a GT1204B from JBL it will be 8K (it uses the GT4-12 I think, with a JBL designed box) + 13K for the amp = 21K.

EDIT: You can also consider getting a GT4-10 and building a ported box, and use it with a CS60.4/Pio 6100. I think it will play as loud as sealed 12" sub, and will give tighter bass than the bass tube, or a 12" sub in a ported box. This will run to about 4K(sub) + 1.5K(box) + 8K(amp) = 13.5K. But choose this only if you're getting the sub for a hatch and the budget is really tight. In a sedan, this won't do.

[johy]

Thanks mate, I can see my budget shooting northwards.

It is a WagonR, a small hatch and like in the picture (a friend's), there are already two boxes for the real ovals, so I really don't want to crowd the area too much. I was looking if I could fit everything below 10K (please don't grin).

I think I might have to stick to the Pio6100/6200s (is there a Sony that is cheaper and as good?). Or the GTA275 (2-ch).

The stay-away-from-boom factor does corner me to the sealed option, doesn't it? I kind of like CS1204B (12"), but will it be too large for the small car?

Shop Online; Gift in India: ,* JBL 12 Inch Sealed Subwoofer Box for the Car - CS1204B,* Car Audio Buy mobile phones, Gift Flowers, Buy Indian Apparel, Buy Books in India, Buy Cameras

Also, is there any sasta amp that can power the CS1204B? I am hunting for a used amp as well. Are there no cheap amps around?

[hydrashok]

Originally Posted by johy

Thanks mate, I can see my budget shooting northwards.

Goes with the territory But seriously, I always try to not to go overboard. Bad karma and all that.

Originally Posted by johy

It is a WagonR, a small hatch and like in the picture (a friend's), there are already two boxes for the real ovals, so I really don't want to crowd the area too much.

Hell, if you have space, use it. Go for a 12" itself if you can swing it. You'll have no regrets as far as the sound is concerned. Remove the sub when you need the real-estate. Now I understand why you mentioned an MDF tray. I guess you wanted to mount the sub on a tray (IB style) huh? Better not go that way. The sound insulation has to be perfect in IB installs and it is real difficult (and costly) to get it right in a hatch. Most installers screw it up.

Originally Posted by johy

I was looking if I could fit everything below 10K (please don't grin).

No grinning, buddy. I've been there myself, and usually after all my installs/upgrades, I'm left stripped to my undies Another such upgrade coming up next week.

Originally Posted by johy

I think I might have to stick to the Pio6100/6200s (is there a Sony that is cheaper and as good?). Or the GTA275 (2-ch).

The stay-away-from-boom factor does corner me to the sealed option, doesn't it? I kind of like CS1204B (12"), but will it be too large for the small car?

Shop Online; Gift in India: ,* JBL 12 Inch Sealed Subwoofer Box for the Car - CS1204B,* Car Audio Buy mobile phones, Gift Flowers, Buy Indian Apparel, Buy Books in India, Buy Cameras

Also, is there any sasta amp that can power the CS1204B? I am hunting for a used amp as well. Are there no cheap amps around?

Stay away from the Sonys. Pio is a good bet. If you want just the sub amped, a 2-ch amp would be very cost effective. I don't think JBL has any 2-ch amps (is there a CS60.2?). Not much idea about Pio either. The Blau is easily available and should be your best bet. You should have no problem finding a second-hand amp at your installer or at any car-accessories store, or better, right here at TBHP.

Buddy, a ported box (not tube) is not that boomy. If done well (with proper port and box dimensions), it can kick quite tight with just enough/little boom. Overall you might find a ported box most VFM.

I think I mentioned the CS1204B as the GT1204B in my earlier post. The 1204B you've mentioned is the same one I mentioned in my earlier post.

[johy]

Great, I get the gist. Your posts have been very informative. For now, I will try to get a Pio/Blau 2-ch amp and power only the sub.

Originally Posted by hydrashok

Buddy, a ported box (not tube) is not that boomy. If done well (with proper port and box dimensions), it can kick quite tight with just enough/little boom. Overall you might find a ported box most VFM.

Only problem is right here "with proper port and box dimensions." I will age 20 years trying to get it done in Siliguri - still I will see what can be done.

BTW, a 2-ch Pio amp, can it power a JBL CS1204B?


Just called up my vendor:

JBL 10" sub driver: 3500
JBL 12" sub driver: 3700
Pioneer 245DVC 10" sub driver: 4200 (vendor insists this is bery bery good)
Bass tube (all Blau): with in-built amp 5450 and whereabouts. Does not have JBL.
Blau 2-ch amp: 3750
Pio 2-ch amp: 4500
Ported box: 1100 (It is ready made, but I think I can get a customized one made).
Cabling: 750/- for Twister kit.

Your take sir on these prices.

[johy]

Let's say I decide on the 12" JBL sub driver and couple it with the Blau 2-ch amp, what dimensions for the ported box? (Of course, I will go there and check out the ready-made box they already have once before getting anything done). Forgive the question, but can I use both 2 channels to power the Sub or power rear ovals with the other channel? Which would be better - soundwise? Any special thing for the power? Will the car's alternator be enough?

Got some prices from my vendor:

12" JBL sub driver : 3700
10" JBL sub driver : 3500
Pioneer 245DVC sub: 4200 - vendor insists that this is very good.
Blau 2-ch amp: 3750
Pioneer 2-ch amp 4500
Blau sub (600 tube - not sure what it is): 4250
Blau sub with inbuilt amp: 5450
TWISTER cabling kit: 750/-
Ready-made Ported box: 1100 (have to check the dimensions and ask if a customized one can be done).

Your take, sir, on the prices.

[hydrashok]

@johy, looks like all prices are grey. the 10" sub (JBL GT4-10) runs to 4K with B&W -- I would go for the B&W one for 500/- extra.

If that JBL 12" sub is the genuine article, then I think you should go for that one. Check to see if it is a "GT" series sub or a "CS" series sub. I think there used to be CS series sub-drivers sometime back, but were discontinued by JBL (not sure about this, I guess Sam can confirm). If GT series, it would be the current GT4-12 I guess.

Blau's newer 2-ch amps are GTA275. The older ones are GTA250. The 250 is also fine (I use one now for my sub), except that you should know they switched over to the 275 (which has a direct MP3 player etc. input socket -- 3.5 mm I think) about a year or so back.

Don't buy a ready-made ported sub-box. You will be better off with a sealed box if you find it difficult to get a ported box made to correct specs (I know how difficult that is, if you can't find and experienced installer). Even if the enclosure size is a bit off, a sealed box is more forgiving. The spec of the box will be in the sub's manual, and I guess you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a sealed box made.

Don't get the Blau Tube or the Blau active sub (the one with the inbuilt amp).

Twister is a good enough brand of wiring, but 750/- sounds a bit on the low side -- to be a genuine item. The kit has power & RCAs?

The 2-ch amp will use both channels (they are bridged to one channel) to power the sub.

For the power, the car's alternator is quite enough. Don't worry. Most folks here run a 4-ch amp and a mono amp in their cars. Some folks run three amps in their cars.

[johy]

Great - I am armed with enough information now to go out shopping. :-)

Thanks a million hydrashok and Sam.