[navin]

Originally Posted by Jakku

I need your help --- kindly suggest a decent HU (1 DIN) which can replace my current setup. Budget max - Rs.3.5k to 4K. I am not an audiophile, I like music and what I listen to most is instrument percussion, filmy music. So a decent, not so expensive one is what I am looking at.

Maybe the Pioneer 169 or 1690 will fit this budget. The later has CD the former only USB. The 169 has a MRP of 4.5K, the 1690 about 5.5K.

[Jakku]

Thanks Navin ji. One more question. Pioneer shows outputs as 50W X 4, where as Sony shows 55W X 4 or 52W X 4. Is this a huge difference? My understanding is this output is what I connect to the speakers. So, if I choose Pioneer as my HU in lieu of my current Sony, will I have to change the speakers as well?

I am sorry for such a silly question, but as you would have by now rightly assumed, my knowledge in this is very much limited.

[Mashblue]

Originally Posted by Jakku

Pioneer shows outputs as 50W X 4, where as Sony shows 55W X 4 or 52W X 4.

It will not make any difference whatsoever.
You dont need to change the current speakers if you are happy with the way they sound.
Matching the speakers output with source depends on the system's RMS output values, not the peak output as mentioned 50, 52 etc. But you need to worry about these only if you have an external amplifier involved.

[599gto]

Originally Posted by Jakku

Thanks Navin ji. One more question. Pioneer shows outputs as 50W X 4, where as Sony shows 55W X 4 or 52W X 4. Is this a huge difference? My understanding is this output is what I connect to the speakers. So, if I choose Pioneer as my HU in lieu of my current Sony, will I have to change the speakers as well?

I am sorry for such a silly question, but as you would have by now rightly assumed, my knowledge in this is very much limited.

Don't look at those figures, what matters, if at all, are the RMS figures, which happens to be the amount of wattage the HU can continuosly feed the speakers with. For a regular non audiophile head unit the RMS figures vary from 12-22 Watts RMS.

About matching the speakers with an amplifier or HU based on power figures, a little head room always works better. Say, your speakers are designed to take in 60 Watts RMS, per channel, an amp that gives out a minimum of 70 watts RMS would suit it best.

Having said that, when powering the speakers through the HU itself, you need not worry too much about power figures, your speakers will happily sing with whatever power the HU feeds them with!

Happy ICEing!

[singhangad]

I think I've screwed up. Need help.

I had an old JBL gtx 424 amp and a JBL CS1214T 1000W bass tube. Had this setup installed in my old Palio and retained it after selling the car. Wanted to get the same setup installed in my new car (XUV). In the Palio the JBL amp was connected to a 2-din Sony Xplod HU. In the XUV as you'd know, I had to get it connected to the stock HU. went to a local shop (Zan auto sound in Marathahalli, bangalore). His boys installed the amp and the woofer within an hour. They basically jumped the front speaker level output wires and connected that to the RCA input of the amp.

I hadn't read up on all the little cavaets of ICE'ing at the time and totally trusted the shop to know what they are doing. To my dismay after the connections were done and all the wires tucked back in and the door panels stuck/screwed back in place I tested the system alone in the car, and found out that the sub only gave an output on the right channel. If I moved the balance to the left channel there was no sub output at all. Showed it to the shop guy and after a bit of fiddling with the speaker jumped input to the amp he showed demonstrated that its not a problem with his jumped input as both inputs when connected to the right channel RCA plug of the amp gave sound output to the sub, but nothing passed through when connected to the left channel. He convince me that there's a problem with the amp and I have given it to him for repair.

Just read up online at various places (including team bhp) that you CANNOT connect speaker level outputs to an amp which doesn't support it and are supposed to pass the signal through a hi-low converter / line output converter. Apparently JBL gtx 424, being an old amp, doesn't! (obviously it doesn't given that it only has RCA input jacks!). Did I just get my amp burnt up by the high voltage of XUV's HU's speaker level outputs?

More importantly could it damage the HU itself? I do hear some disturbance in the FM signal now :S

[cooldude1988765]

Originally Posted by singhangad

I think I've screwed up. Need help.

I had an old JBL gtx 424 amp and a JBL CS1214T 1000W bass tube. Had this setup installed in my old Palio and retained it after selling the car. Wanted to get the same setup installed in my new car (XUV). In the Palio the JBL amp was connected to a 2-din Sony Xplod HU. In the XUV as you'd know, I had to get it connected to the stock HU. went to a local shop (Zan auto sound in Marathahalli, bangalore). His boys installed the amp and the woofer within an hour. They basically jumped the front speaker level output wires and connected that to the RCA input of the amp.

I hadn't read up on all the little cavaets of ICE'ing at the time and totally trusted the shop to know what they are doing. To my dismay after the connections were done and all the wires tucked back in and the door panels stuck/screwed back in place I tested the system alone in the car, and found out that the sub only gave an output on the right channel. If I moved the balance to the left channel there was no sub output at all. Showed it to the shop guy and after a bit of fiddling with the speaker jumped input to the amp he showed demonstrated that its not a problem with his jumped input as both inputs when connected to the right channel RCA plug of the amp gave sound output to the sub, but nothing passed through when connected to the left channel. He convince me that there's a problem with the amp and I have given it to him for repair.

Just read up online at various places (including team bhp) that you CANNOT connect speaker level outputs to an amp which doesn't support it and are supposed to pass the signal through a hi-low converter / line output converter. Apparently JBL gtx 424, being an old amp, doesn't! (obviously it doesn't given that it only has RCA input jacks!). Did I just get my amp burnt up by the high voltage of XUV's HU's speaker level outputs?

More importantly could it damage the HU itself? I do hear some disturbance in the FM signal now :S

How did he connect the hi level inputs to the amp which has no input for it ?

[singhangad]

Originally Posted by cooldude1988765

How did he connect the hi level inputs to the amp which has no input for it ?

He took an RCA cable, spliced it from one side, connected it to the front speaker wires (jumped them), and connected the other end (twin RCA jacks) to the amp's RCA inputs.

[cooldude1988765]

Originally Posted by singhangad

He took an RCA cable, spliced it from one side, connected it to the front speaker wires (jumped them), and connected the other end (twin RCA jacks) to the amp's RCA inputs.

That is shocking.
If possible get your amp back from him ASAP. I dont think he has the know how to repair the amp.

There are couple of reliable and well known installers in Bangalore. EVO and Harmonixx/Topgear

[singhangad]

The reason I went to this guy is that he is conveniently located between office and work. JC road is closed on Sundays.

EVO is in indiranagar. Know any installer in the MG road area?

[singhangad]

Went to EVO today. Satya convinced me into uninstalling the local guy's setup completely. He said even with a hi-lo converter, a 2 channel amp like mine could potentially create havoc with the XUV's electronics because we're sharing the front speaker level outputs between the speakers and the hi-lo. A proper setup would be to connect the inputs to a 4ch amp and power the speakers and sub from it. Given my lack of knowledge in the area I submit and got the wiring uninstalled. Now everything is back to stock.

[autotranny]

ICE has become all the more confusing now with Manufacturers providing HUs and speakers in most models. I recently took delivery of the new Verna 4S , S(O) model whic comes with the old fluidic HU + 4 speakers on doors and tweeters. I'm not sure if these are comps or not. The sound is decent, but not even matching the bare minimum set up on my i10 (Sony xplod HU + Infinity Kappa comps in front + rockford fosgate prime ovals in rear parcel tray) . Whilst good sound is a consideration, i do not want to tamper with any wires so as to impact my warranty. May I request for some expert advise on how to spruce up the OEM set up in the Verna.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by autotranny

May I request for some expert advise on how to spruce up the OEM set up in the Verna.

Congrats btw,

Take the car to Shakir for sprucing up the audio so without tampering the OEM wiring.

You can swap speakers for better quality ones.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by autotranny

... 4 speakers on doors and tweeters. ... Whilst good sound is a consideration, i do not want to tamper with any wires so as to impact my warranty. May I request for some expert advise on how to spruce up the OEM set up in the Verna.

Yes, they are components, albeit very economical ones with an inline capacitor as crossover. The rears are round coaxials. They sound OK in the mid / high range, but have very low mid-bass output.

Replacing the speakers will not need cutting of OE harness - they would be drop in replacements. Aftermarket round mid-basses like the Infinity Kappa do give better mid-bass, but the sound is unlikely to rival the bass output of the 6x9 you had on parcel shelf. For that you just need to put 6x9s on parcel shelf, or use a sub-woofer. 6x9s can be mounted be done without major mods with MDF spacers, but the installer will have to extend wires till the parcel shelf (if there are no OE wires already). Subwoofer will need amp and new wires.

[197Horses]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Yes, they are components, albeit very economical ones with an inline capacitor as crossover. The rears are round coaxials. They sound OK in the mid / high range, but have very low mid-bass output.

Replacing the speakers will not need cutting of OE harness - they would be drop in replacements. Aftermarket round mid-basses like the Infinity Kappa do give better mid-bass, but the sound is unlikely to rival the bass output of the 6x9 you had on parcel shelf. For that you just need to put 6x9s on parcel shelf, or use a sub-woofer. 6x9s can be mounted be done without major mods with MDF spacers, but the installer will have to extend wires till the parcel shelf (if there are no OE wires already). Subwoofer will need amp and new wires.

Mounting 6x9s on a rear speaker tray will give good bass , totally agreed but Verna fluidic has speakers in door pads and the rear parcel tray is of plastic , just under the plastic panel is a thick sheet of metal which doesn't allow installation of speakers directly on parcel tray. Plastic and the metal needs to be cut in order to install speakers there . This may be a irreversible modification to a new car which is also under warranty but its fine if the owner is fine with it. Albeit a good installer is highly recommended as this is not the kind of work that car accessory shops are doing regularly and they may end up spoiling the finishing and aesthetics of interiors.
I too own a Verna fluidic, i have installed JBL comps in doors , jbl ms-a1004 for speakers, Jbl ms-a5001 for bass-tube and custom wiring. The problem is that boot is totally sealed, so the base doesn't come out of the boot in cabin so well, the crisp sound of the bass is lost. The dealer asked me to cut a hole on the rear tray but i didn't want to cut metal so i left as it is. Is there any viable solution for this ?

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by 197Horses

... just under the plastic panel is a thick sheet of metal which doesn't allow installation of speakers directly on parcel tray. Plastic and the metal needs to be cut in order to install speakers there . This may be a irreversible modification to a new car which is also under warranty but its fine if the owner is fine with it. ...

Just for visualization, could you please post a picture of the metal part from the underside (inside the boot)?

In the installation that I have seen in Verna and other cars that have the metal member below the plastic parcel shelf, the 6x9 is mounted in a way that the magnet bottom rests on the metal sheet but the speaker is raised above the plastic. This is done using MDF spacers (a couple of spacers glued together, and covered with felt carpet).

Originally Posted by 197Horses

... The problem is that boot is totally sealed, so the base doesn't come out of the boot in cabin so well, the crisp sound of the bass is lost. The dealer asked me to cut a hole on the rear tray but i didn't want to cut metal so i left as it is. Is there any viable solution for this ?

First, the bass is not crisp because you are using a bass tube. Borrow a sub in a sealed box and hear the response (without changing anything else).

Getting the level of bass right in the cabin in your situation is a matter of setting the gain higher. Yes, a hole (about 10" dia) in the metal plate will definitely help, and it will not weaken the metal member.