[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Some inverter refrigerators from LG and Samsung are coming with 10 year warranty on the compressor, so I guess that it is worth buying them for peace of mind.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Ten-year warranty on my Whirlpool compressor --- but only one year on the rest, which just indicates what the manufacturers expect to go wrong. It isn't the compressor, but the electronics which is going to be costing us money over the decade.

Originally Posted by batman

I am using Hitachi Inverter type (Hitachi 390 Ltr R-SG37BPND) refrigerator since May 2014; So my suggestion is to select a product, which can get good service back up.
My previous Frost free whirlpool refrigerator was working complaint free for 14 years, without any stabilizer.

Thanks Aroy sir, Thad Sir and Batman Saab. I noticed that compressors carry 5 to 10 year warranties. But for inverter types, the power electronics carry just about one year unless you pay more to extend it to one more year. I would still prefer a non-inverter type.

I like suspense only in movies - not in real life and not from household appliances.

[Rajeevraj]

Anyone has feedback on Washing Machine and 100% Dryer combo? Don't see many options. Saw this one from Bosch which looked promising.

http://www.bosch-home.com/in/product...ce=browse#tab2

[Thad E Ginathom]

Re washer/drier, you could start with my post one page back.

Really, unless you live in a rain-drenched north-eastern place, sun is better and much, much cheaper

[dailydriver]

The tragic fire accident at Grenfell Tower in London is said to have been caused by a refrigerator, the specific model in question being Hotpoint FF175BP fridge-freezer. Investigations are on to zero in on the exact trigger for the fire.

Installation of modern appliances in homes that have older/lower capacity electrical wiring is a clear invitation to danger. It is always better to verify whether our houses can sustain the load, especially of items like room heaters, ovens etc.

Just a thought.

[R2D2]

It's not just lower capacity wiring home owners need to worry about. Over time wire insulation deteriorates.

I had to have my home wiring completely redone in 2013 after a minor electrical fire caused by a short circuit which in turn was caused by compromised insulation and joints in the wiring.

If your home is over 20 years old please get the wiring checked. Consider installing RCBOs and MCBs (if not already present) to protect the home and family from inadvertent shocks and overloads. I also use high and low voltage electrical cutoffs/switchers at the point where the supply enters the home.

[batman]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

The tragic fire accident at Grenfell Tower in London is said to have been caused by a refrigerator, the specific model in question being Hotpoint FF175BP fridge-freezer. Investigations are on to zero in on the exact trigger for the fire.

Originally Posted by R2D2

It's not just lower capacity wiring home owners need to worry about. Over time wire insulation deteriorates.

One more thing people must be aware of is about the refrigerant used in the modern refrigerators. The one which I have uses R-600a (Isobutane); Although it is eco-friendly, because of its highly combustible nature (Wiki says isobutane has an explosion risk), manufacturer does not recommend to keep the refrigerator in kitchen.

[R2D2]

@batman, R32 is also a flammable refrigerant used mainly in ACs. One needs to be careful if there is a gas leak.

[fine69]

What could possibly be the issue when the fridge compartment cools food but water bottle, eggs, fruits have a misty layer of water on them. The freezee compartment is working absolutely fine but most of the food items in fridge compartment have this misty layer of water and anything placed directly in front of cooling vent has ice buildup.

Yes I kept some almonds in water and the entire water became ice by today morning.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Misty layer of water could mean condensation. This could be caused by a bad door seal. Take a thin strip of paper, close the door on it, move it around, trapped by the seal, and see if it is loose anywhere.

Icing up... well, if the fridge is working overtime, your thermostat needs replacing.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by fine69

What could possibly be the issue when the fridge compartment cools food but water bottle, eggs, fruits have a misty layer of water on them. The freezee compartment is working absolutely fine but most of the food items in fridge compartment have this misty layer of water and anything placed directly in front of cooling vent has ice buildup.

Yes I kept some almonds in water and the entire water became ice by today morning.

There can be a few problems

1. If the thermostat is set for maximum cooling, then if the refrigerator is opened less than 10 times a day, the whole inside cools to extremely low temperature. In our refrigerator the bottom most shelf freezes stuff in winters if we do not reduce the cooling.

Some times the liquids we keep in the chiller tray also freezes in cool climate.

2. There can be leak between the freezer and the main compartment, that would cool the inside excessively.

3. Water kept in open containers will evaporate and form mist, so keep all the containers closed tightly.

4. Most frost free refrigerators have fans to circulate air, check if it is working. If not then air will not circulate and mist will form.

Solution

1. If you have a thermometer, keep it inside the refrigerator and note the temperature reached over night. If it is below 4 degrees centigrade, decrease the cooling.

2. Keep all the liquids in tightly closed containers.

3. Do not over fill the freezer. Some space is required for the air to circulate.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by R2D2

It's not just lower capacity wiring home owners need to worry about. Over time wire insulation deteriorates.

I had to have my home wiring completely redone in 2013 after a minor electrical fire caused by a short circuit which in turn was caused by compromised insulation and joints in the wiring.

If your home is over 20 years old please get the wiring checked. Consider installing RCBOs and MCBs (if not already present) to protect the home and family from inadvertent shocks and overloads. I also use high and low voltage electrical cutoffs/switchers at the point where the supply enters the home.

Most of the electrical wiring used 30+ years ago had thick strands of wire (7-21, 3-22 etc - first figure number of strands, second SWG) with thicker insulation. That insulation was quite rigid and coupled with thick wire strands would crack with time. Modern cables have a bundle thinner individual wires which are quite flexible and the insulation is also thinner and pliable.

There re a few things that have to be adhered to while wiring home.

1. 10mm.sq - 7.0 KVA Load. Main incoming wires to each floor. More than 7 KVA load use 20mm.sq cables.

2. 4mm.sq - 3.0 KVA load. Each individual AC/Geyser.

3. 2.5mm.sq - 1.5KVA load. Motors based devices - Booster Pump, Washing Machine, Dish Washer etc.

4. 1.5mm.sq wire - 1KVA load. Small Motors, Microwave Ovens and Refrigerators, as well as large light cluster - Chandeliers with 10+ bulbs, 4/8 bay tube lights.

5. 1mm.sq - < 500VA. Lighting and fans.

The diameter of the wire coupled with its length determines how much it will heat up under rated load. Long wire runs will heat up more. As most of wiring is concealed, the heat has no where to escape, and in extreme cases of high load and hot ambient temperatures, the insulation will melt resulting in short circuits and in many cases fire.

Motors - AC, Washing Machines and Booster Pumps have a starting load of four to five times the running load, hence wiring for these devices needs to be more conservatively sized.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Most of the electrical wiring used 30+ years ago had thick strands of wire (7-21, 3-22 etc - first figure number of strands, second SWG) with thicker insulation. That insulation was quite rigid and coupled with thick wire strands would crack with time. Modern cables have a bundle thinner individual wires which are quite flexible and the insulation is also thinner and pliable.

Motors - AC, Washing Machines and Booster Pumps have a starting load of four to five times the running load, hence wiring for these devices needs to be more conservatively sized.

The builder installed wiring was single core and was replaced by multi strand wires which are far more flexible.

Yes, the ACs and geysers are wired with 4 sq.mm and in one instance 2.5 sq.mm (the minimum required) since the conduit wasn't large enough to accomodate 4 sq.mm width. We are constrained by the conduits installed during construction. The remainder of the wiring is between 1-1.5 sq.mm for lighting and fans and 2.5 sq mm for the inverter.

The supply from the meter room (with dual MCBs; 1 for each phase before the meter and a 4 pole after the meter output) to the main RCBO in the home is 6 sq mm IIRC. We almost never run more than 2 ACs simultaneously. Putting in larger gauge wire was impossible due to lack of space in the conduit. The home has also been fitted with a 2nd set of MCBs to isolate the bedrooms (where the ACs and geysers are) when required.

The last thing one needs is an electrical fire as it starts off within the walls and remains unseen till it's too late.

[Thad E Ginathom]

House wiring does not require flexibility. It is bent when it is installed, but never again!

UK house wiring is fine with solid-core cable, not stranded.

One more thing to add to your list is that conduits should not be packed tight with cable. This increases heat and risk of fire.

I'm afraid that most electrical practice here is bad practice. No formal education, no certifying of electricians, no proper examination of new work before connection.

It is like a lot of driving.... People think they can do it just because they have seen others do it.

True, they have some knacks from practice. It took me an hour to run a cable through one conduit; our electrician put another one there in five minutes.

Actually be is better than most. He may not be qualified, but I see him ensuring that he is safe as he works, at least.

Sadly, my house wiring was done by idiots. I trusted the engineer to supervise properly. Big mistake.

Bits of heavy cable from the meter were just twisted and taped behind the board. I didn't know until it went bang one day.

What gets me is that it is not their money they are "saving" it is mine. And I can afford a metre of cable... So why?

[Aroy]

Unlike India, most of wiring in UK used to be of the "Ring Circuit" type, that is a heavy gauge cable running in a long circuit with taps in each outlet. Each appliance plug carries its own fuse, so on the whole the wiring can take overload to an extent. What it cannot take is 3x to 5x load imposed by modern appliances fitted in older homes.

In India the conduits are 1/2 inch and normally run on a hub-and-spoke fashion, so that each circuit has to be sized, but due to narrow conduits there is a limit to the number of wires you can run, as most of the space is taken up by insulation and not the conductor. In that respect modern multi strand cables have an advantage of thinner insulation, so more wires can be run.

Ultimately if you are replacing the electrical wiring, it would be a good idea to also replace the conduits with larger diameter ones - 20mm instead of 12mm.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Absolutely.

Apparently, "ring mains" was developed due to copper shortage. It takes less than wiring sockets on spurs, and the cable can be less weight due to having two routes (either way) to the main supply. This will be 2.5sq mm. The specification relies on the fact that any circuit will never be fully used. If one actually turns on a 3kw heater or two in every room in a British house, breakers may well start to, ermm... break.