[Prowler]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Actually the fan you see in front of the coils when you open the freezer part has little to no role in defrosting. It is only to recirculate the cold air from the coils to the refrigerator portion. The system actually has a heater element which switches on and off and stops ice from depositing on the coils. In older refrigerators, it was done with a mechanical timer which switched on the heater for a fixed time after every few hours. These new fridges seem to have a sensor for the same.

The heater coil is used for defrosting. Many refrigerators don't come with heater coils as they call it as frost free.



Unless the fan works, the fins will be clogged within a short time. It is essential that the fan works to stop the icing. In Airconditioners, if the internal fan slows down due to clogging, you will see that the cooling coil fins will be blocked with ice.



In some refrigerators, the micro controller uses strategically placed sensors to detect the average temperature around critical area and activate fans and heaters along with the timing of the compressor so that the internal compartments are held at the right temperature regardless of the ambient and working condition.


Frost will form if you keep the refrigerator door open for a long time. Again if the humidity is high (like during monsoon) it will form. Or if you block the air circulation inside, it will form.

The only reason the refrigerator continues functioning is because the controller tries to orchestrate the components to the best of its ability.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by Prowler

The heater coil is used for defrosting. Many refrigerators don't come with heater coils as they call it as frost free.

You couldn't be more wrong sir. Every frost free refrigerator has a heating element. You can read about it over here - https://homeguides.sfgate.com/frostf...nts-76586.html

The difference between older models with manual defrosting and the models called frost-free which is actually a misnomer and is actually auto defrosting is a simple device known as a mechanical timer which would switch on the heater for a fixed time period after a fixed number of hours instead of manual switching in older models where we used to press the red button to switch on the heater cycle. This seems to have been replaced with some sensors on the latest refrigerators which do the same job but based on actual frosting of the coils rather than on fixed time intervals.

If you open up the back of your frost free refrigerator you will see another set of coils and a fan. When the water is melted by the heater and drops inside the small collector at the back, it drops very close to the condenser coils at the back and this action with the help of the condenser fan evaporates what little water has been melted by the action of the heater because condenser coils are very hot. I have opened up my refrigerator and seen all this first hand.

You are correct that failure of the evaporator fan can also lead to forming of ice on the fins of the evaporator coils but that is not the sole reason and can very easily be verified by checking whether the fan is working or not. In fact I recently did replace my evaporator fan but the real culprit in my system is that the heater is not switching on despite the timer being perfect.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Every frost free refrigerator has a heating element.

Yes. The fridge has a 200W defrost heating element. Below is from the service manual.

[ashvek3141]

Hello, I am looking at purchasing a Fully Automatic Top Load washing machine; for a family of 4. I don't have much idea in this regards and the number of brands and their respective features are terribly confusing. Could someone who has a good idea or someone who might have recently purchased one with the above requirement please help me here.
Just by the word of mouth, seems like IFB is a good choice in washing machines. But even the other brands like Whirlpool, Samsung are offering equally compelling features, warranty and are actually priced cheaper then IFB.
help.

Thanks.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Prowler

The heater coil is used for defrosting.

Originally Posted by rdst_1

In that case, do they not have a diagnostic scan for the main controller board. The sensors shouldn't be the culprits as they are very simple devices.

Thank you rdst_1 and Prowler for all your inputs. Here is the update.

After I had fixed the dry solder on the board, I had downloaded the service manual. Did a diagnostics for the frost free system based on the below flow chart from the service manual. Did this test after running the fridge for 12 hours.



I had already checked the resistance of the defrost temperature sensor at the input of the board. Only thing I had not tested was the heater coil resistance. But the complete defrost cycle ran and completed without any problem. This shows that the input (sensors, wiring etc.) and output circuits (heater coil) of the defrost system is good. I think the problem is solved.

PS:
I feel it would have been better if I had the service manual before I did the dry solder fix and was able to confirm there was a problem in the defrost system. Now I just know that the defrost system is working fine and can only assume that this is from fixing the dry solders on the controller board

Another observation during the diagnostics is that the fan in front of the cooling coil is indeed to circulate cool air in the fridge. I ran another diagnostics that checks the cooling system and only when cooling this fan was turning on. It did not turn on during defrosting.

[huntrz]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

Just by the word of mouth, seems like IFB is a good choice in washing machines. But even the other brands like Whirlpool, Samsung are offering equally compelling features, warranty and are actually priced cheaper then IFB.
help.

Thanks.

Based on my personal experience with top of the line whirlpool washing machine I can suggest you to stay away from whirlpool. They have severe design and engineering problems. The machine doesn't do what it is supposed to do and the service personal are not capable of identifying and fixing the issue. Life was peaceful with my previous LG both in terms of product's engineering and support. I have not used samsung washing machine but having used other home appliances from Samsung I would say you can avoid them also, I have negative experiences with TV and refrigerator from samsung, both suffered from poor engineering and/or design issues. It has good support but if the product itself has a design or quality issue, good support can't help much.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by huntrz

Based on my personal experience with top of the line whirlpool washing machine I can suggest you to stay away from whirlpool. They have severe design and engineering problems. The machine doesn't do what it is supposed to do and the service personal are not capable of identifying and fixing the issue. Life was peaceful with my previous LG both in terms of product's engineering and support. I have not used samsung washing machine but having used other home appliances from Samsung I would say you can avoid them also, I have negative experiences with TV and refrigerator from samsung, both suffered from poor engineering and/or design issues. It has good support but if the product itself has a design or quality issue, good support can't help much.

Thanks for you inputs huntrz.
I too was skeptical about Whirpool to being with; haven't heard much about them in the washing machines department atleast. So is it safe to assume that I should bet on the tried and tested IFB washing machines. They aren't feature loaded as the competition and are also a bit expensive. But given that the market swears by them for all these years, I guess that's the only option to go for.
Open to feedback and inputs from the BHPians who are already using it.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

Thanks for you inputs huntrz.
I too was skeptical about Whirpool to being with; haven't heard much about them in the washing machines department atleast. So is it safe to assume that I should bet on the tried and tested IFB washing machines. They aren't feature loaded as the competition and are also a bit expensive. But given that the market swears by them for all these years, I guess that's the only option to go for.
Open to feedback and inputs from the BHPians who are already using it.

Did you consider Bosch? I recently changed from a top loading Samsung washing machine to a front loading Bosch. The build quality is awesome and it is absolutely silent. I am sure the top loading machines also will have same build quality. Can't comment on the long term reliability or service quality though.

Also, any reason for not considering front loaders? Front loading machines use almost 1/3rd the water compared to top loaders. With growing water scarcity everywhere, going for a front loading machine may be good in the long run.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by graaja

Did you consider Bosch? I recently changed from a top loading Samsung washing machine to a front loading Bosch. The build quality is awesome and it is absolutely silent. I am sure the top loading machines also will have same build quality. Can't comment on the long term reliability or service quality though.

Also, any reason for not considering front loaders? Front loading machines use almost 1/3rd the water compared to top loaders. With growing water scarcity everywhere, going for a front loading machine may be good in the long run.

No, I didn't check much on BOSCH though. Like I said, I am completely noob in this field (of washing machines). Till the time I started researching in washing machines, I didn't even know that BOSCH is also into this.

With regards to the preference for the Top Load, isn't it more convenient then the front load? I mean, you don't have to bend down to load and unload the stuff into it (everyday); especially helps the elderly. This is the only reason I was leaning towards the Top loaders. Apart from this the top loaders are comparatively lower priced then the fronts. But again, I get that you save on the water usage and also the cleaning quality is good I heard. But like my primary concern is the ergonomics as only my Mum will be using the machine.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

With regards to the preference for the Top Load, isn't it more convenient then the front load? I mean, you don't have to bend down to load and unload the stuff into it (everyday); especially helps the elderly. This is the only reason I was leaning towards the Top loaders. Apart from this the top loaders are comparatively lower priced then the fronts. But again, I get that you save on the water usage and also the cleaning quality is good I heard. But like my primary concern is the ergonomics as only my Mum will be using the machine.

Initially, my wife was against the front loader just for the same reason that it may not be convenient to bend and load/unload. But she is totally fine with it now and is more than happy with the performance. My opinion is that it is more of a mind block than a deal breaker considering the advantages a front loader offers. But not sure about your mother's health and preferences. You should decide based on that.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by graaja

Did you consider Bosch? I recently changed from a top loading Samsung washing machine to a front loading Bosch. The build quality is awesome and it is absolutely silent

Is it waterproof? All washing machines of the last generation were waterproof. I had an LG Top loader which was in my bathroom for 13 years - it started rusting after that but electronics were perfect. I replaced it with a new LG Top Loader & it's panel had to be replaced thrice till now underwarranty because of moisture.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by carboy

Is it waterproof? All washing machines of the last generation were waterproof. I had an LG Top loader which was in my bathroom for 13 years - it started rusting after that but electronics were perfect. I replaced it with a new LG Top Loader & it's panel had to be replaced thrice till now underwarranty because of moisture.

All the new washing machines come with a metal body; hence not advisable to keep in bathrooms wherein it will be contact with water majority of the time. Even I was surprised to know this during my visit to Croma.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

All the new washing machines come with a metal body; hence not advisable to keep in bathrooms wherein it will be contact with water majority of the time. Even I was surprised to know this during my visit to Croma.

The metal body isn't the problem. My earlier LG was also metal body. It worked fine for 13 years in the bathroom. Only then the body started rusting. The electronics were still fine & washing was also fine. I stupidly junked it & bought this new piece of crap whose electronics go bust every few months.


Why has everyone changed from a robust design to a more fragile design? Isn't there a single robust WM available now?

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by carboy

Why has everyone changed from a robust design to a more fragile design? Isn't there a single robust WM available now?

Probably they will run out of business if people start using their machines for over 10 years.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by carboy

Why has everyone changed from a robust design to a more fragile design? Isn't there a single robust WM available now?

Was the washing machine that you replaced with touch screen electronics? I guess if you choose the control panel to have mechanical buttons, that may be more robust than the ones with fancy touch screens and graphics displays.

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

Probably they will run out of business if people start using their machines for over 10 years.

This is true. With microcontroller based home appliances there are more failure points. For example, as I have documented a few posts before, my Samsung fridge started giving trouble and the approach taken by the technician was more like keep changing parts till the issue gets resolved. And at some point we give up and get a new appliance.

I had already started looking for new fridge models before I decided to do some debugging and found dry solder issues on the control board which I fixed. The service guy would have started replacing parts one by one till he reached the controller board.

PS: My 8 year old Siemens dishwasher has started giving problem now. Guess it is time to buy the service manual for the dishwasher and spend some time to repair this. Finding lot of spare time due to this Corona virus scare and subsequent social distancing!