[carboy]

Originally Posted by mvadg

Will be helpful if you did a post mortem. What failed and why. This will help you avoid the conditions that led to the failure. If it is the circuit board, could it be bad power? A cheap solution would be install a few MOV across the power supply. Moisture? Heat? Good luck!

I have written the reasons in the earlier posts. It's because of water & moisture.

My earlier washing machine which was again a LG Top Loader survived close to 13 years in the bathroom with no electronic problems. I junked the working machine after 13 years because the other body had started rusting. The new washing which is again LG can't seem to stand the moisture & water in the bathroom. It conks off every few months & then they replace the panel under warranty. Till now, all the service guys said that none of the new LGs can survive in the bathroom. Today's service guy thought it may be because of the inverter technology whose panels are different.

Hence I am looking for a old-style non-inverter rugged washing machine.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by carboy

This conked off again today. 4th time in 1.5 years of warranty. Still some months of warranty left - so will use it till then & throw it away. The current repairman said this may be because of inverter technology.
.....

Circuit boards that are not protected from moisture will go bad in hot and humid atmosphere of the bathroom. Modern circuit boards are way more densely populated with very fine tracks, unlike the older stuff which had wide gaps between tracks (and the tracks themselves were wide). What can be done is to spray the offending boards with water repelling chemical. These will form an impervious layer on the board preventing damage due to condensing water.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by lurker

what carboy need is something like this

https://www.amazon.in/dp/B07TBTLL8W/..._KbXAEbV6T7D66

cut out the plug of the dryer and connect the 3 wires as mentioned below to respective leads on the socket provided here.
Case closed.
Entire building will come down but nothing will happen to your dryer.

As I have said earlier, the machine is under a 4 year warranty & hence I don't think I will be able to cut any plug/wires. Also nothing has happened to the dryer till now - it's only the extender which goes off because of fuse getting burnt.
Can I use the "JMD GOLD AC BOX 32 Ampere" you liked as an extender - i.e. connect it to my plug point & then connect my washing machine to the JMD Box? One problem I see is the JMD Gold Box seems to be 2 pin while my washing machine plug is 3 pain. I assume I can get something like this with 3 pins?

Originally Posted by Aroy

Circuit boards that are not protected from moisture will go bad in hot and humid atmosphere of the bathroom. Modern circuit boards are way more densely populated with very fine tracks, unlike the older stuff which had wide gaps between tracks (and the tracks themselves were wide). What can be done is to spray the offending boards with water repelling chemical. These will form an impervious layer on the board preventing damage due to condensing water.

Where can I get water repelling chemical - can you give some good brand name? Is it enough to spray it on top of the machine touch panel - or would I need to open up something & spray? How frequently does it have to be sprayed?

[lurker]

Rest assured, nothing will happen to your LG warranty. I have an 1.5 ton LG inverter split ac connected pretty much the same way I mentioned above and I purchased 4 year extended warranty from LG for around 16k. And the service chaps come and service the AC as normal without batting an eyelid at the RCB socket. This is the perfectly safe way to connect a heavy power load on single line.

Earlier I used to have an old 16A socket with fuse that used to get crazy hot after the AC worked for a while.

[jetsetgo08]

Didn't know such a thread existed!

Any recommendations for a reliable 1.0 ton inverter split a/c? Have shortlisted Voltas, Godrej and Lloyd(Havell's) as only these fall under 30k.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by lurker

Rest assured, nothing will happen to your LG warranty.

It's an IFB dryer, not LG.

Anyway, I checked with an electrician - he said to put a Anchor board & a 32 A MCB and extended it rather than cutting the wires. Will that work?

[gadadhar]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Didn't know such a thread existed!

Any recommendations for a reliable 1.0 ton inverter split a/c? Have shortlisted Voltas, Godrej and Lloyd(Havell's) as only these fall under 30k.

I have a TCL that has done 13 years with no issues. I am also having Panasonic and the experience is good

[lurker]

Originally Posted by carboy

It's an IFB dryer, not LG.

Anyway, I checked with an electrician - he said to put a Anchor board & a 32 A MCB and extended it rather than cutting the wires. Will that work?

32 Amp anchor board and 32 A MCB will work.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Didn't know such a thread existed!

Any recommendations for a reliable 1.0 ton inverter split a/c? Have shortlisted Voltas, Godrej and Lloyd(Havell's) as only these fall under 30k.

Certainly the Home Appliance thread exists. But the one you need to discover is

the (The home / office air-conditioner thread)!

See you there!

[meerkat]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

IANAE[lectrician)] but, my understanding is that this is a long and widely-held misconception. They are there to protect upstream, not downstream.

Fuses in appliances, plugs and sockets do, in a sense, protect you, but not in the way people think. They protect the house wiring from burning. Distribution-box MCBs are a consumer-friendly way of localising failures and they prevent the main-supply fuses from blowing. The main-supply fuses protect the local transformer... and so on.

I'm afraid I'd have to differ, apparently being a member of the community sharing the "widely-held misconception" that the distribution-box MCBs are indeed there to protect the downstream circuits they are part of, and not for something extraneous upstream! I'll give my reasons too, and would be happy to see counter reasoning.


The MCBs are there to protect the circuits from two main types of faults:

1. Overloading of the circuits downstream. Upstream conductors are thicker, and branch out into a multitude of other circuits. They are unlikely to be as easily overloaded due to a particular circuit fault.

2. Short circuit. Please see below why downstream circuits are more vulnerable, and hence need more protection compared to upstream.

Extreme example. Take all these fuses out of the system. Then, if you are tinkering inside some device which is turned on, and you drop your screwdriver, causing a short, the main power station blows up!

An extreme example indeed, -- an extremely unlikely one! Why? If we remember that circuits branch out into thinner and thinner conductors downstream, we'd realize that in the absence of all those intentional fuses in the system, we are still left with a multitude of unintended "fuses" (also known as "wires") ! -- In case a dropped screwdriver causes a short, the weaker (thinner) ones of such "fuses" are much more likely to blow before the thicker, upstream ones do, -- so the main power station would likely still be standing (but the house may not)!

Thus those intentional fuses/MCBS are indeed needed to protect the unintended ones, i.e. the circuits downstream, not what is upstream!


There is another way of looking at it too: something can be designed for known things only, and not for unknown requirements. Thus fuses in appliances can be designed to protect those specific appliances themselves, and not for protecting house wiring of unknown specification. MCBs are sized to protect the particular downstream circuits they are part of, and not to protect unknown extraneous things!

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

The electricians here have an absolute jugad which tests for health of the wiring - a bulb on an ordinary holder connected to two pieces of insulated wires. One of the wires goes into the earth socket, and other goes into the socket on right. Ideally, the current In the earthing will induce the MCB to trip. If the bulb keeps glowing, the earthing and / or MCB / ELCB setup is faulty and requires further investigation.

Let me see, ... a bulb in such a testing device would draw how much power? 100W max? How is that supposed to trip even a 6A MCB?! such a bulb connected between live and earth is supposed to light, if the earthing is done even minimally right, no cause for worry! The neutral wires themselves are connected to earth somewhere upstream after all! -- Or is this "jugad" device something special in some unexplained way?

Originally Posted by carboy

Anyway, I checked with an electrician - he said to put a Anchor board & a 32 A MCB and extended it rather than cutting the wires. Will that work?

Are you sure you found a qualified electrician? What a 32A MCB is supposed to achieve sitting between a 16A MCB upstream and a 1.8 KW machine downstream?!!

I think the best and cheapest solution has already been suggested: get an extension made in a local electrical shop with a good quality 3-pin 16A plug on one end and a 3-pin 16A socket on the other, with a metre-or-so of 2.5 or 4 sq. mm 3-core cable in between. Will cost you 2 or 3 hundred rupees at most, -- half of who-knows-what-quality extenders that keeps on burning! -- I've used a similar self-made extension to run my IFB WM for years without any problem whatsoever. Don't be unnecessarily afraid of using a bit of well-made extension.
.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by meerkat

Let me see, ... a bulb in such a testing device would draw how much power? 100W max? How is that supposed to trip even a 6A MCB?! such a bulb connected between live and earth is supposed to light, if the earthing is done even minimally right, no cause for worry! The neutral wires themselves are connected to earth somewhere upstream after all! -- Or is this "jugad" device something special in some unexplained way?

1. I just mentioned what I observed. Whether it is valid or not, I have no clue.

2. If there is an earth leakage in device X, human beings can get shock from device Y. So the MCB or ELCB or whatever, unlike the old mainswitch + fuse setup, trips, as soon a current is detected in the earthing circuit. And the human body is unlikely survive even a fraction of an Ampere at 200 Volts. So, they use 25 W incandecent or 4 W LEDs in that jugaad. For them, this jugaad is much more reliable and cost effective than a continuity tester.

[Aroy]

If I am not wrong, extending the power cord by adding another length to it never voids warranty, as that is what many installers do to extend the reach. As long as the wires are of sufficient thickness to carry the current, they are fine.

[graaja]

Hi All,

Need some inputs on my Samsung 2 door refrigerator. A few months back, the controller board was changed due to possible failure from over voltage. After this controller change, things were fine.

A couple of weeks back, the fridge stopped cooling. The technician who visited said this could be due to possible failure of the frost sensing thermistors and he replaced them. Even after the sensors have been replaced, the fridge does not cool. The cooling coils are completely blocked with ice which in turn affects cooling.

So, if the sensors are not the culprit, what else could be the problem? Has anyone else faced similar problem and got it solved?

Thanks in advance for all the inputs.

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

2. If there is an earth leakage in device X, human beings can get shock from device Y. So the MCB or ELCB or whatever, unlike the old mainswitch + fuse setup, trips, as soon a current is detected in the earthing circuit. And the human body is unlikely survive even a fraction of an Ampere at 200 Volts. So, they use 25 W incandecent or 4 W LEDs in that jugaad. For them, this jugaad is much more reliable and cost effective than a continuity tester.

ELCBs used to check earth leakage current. They have now been replaced by RCCBs (Residual Current Circuit Breakers) which check for the difference between the currents of the live wire and neutral wire. For any power point, you will need an individual RCCB which trips if the difference is 30mA, because 30mA is all it needs to stop a human heart.
MCBs and fuses have a much higher threshhold and they are there to stop your wiring from a fire and not to protect your devices. For that you get SPDs or Surge Protective devices which again come in various categories. Typically, one should install individual RCCB and SPDs at individual power points and a whole house SPD at the entry point.

Edit - The vendors whom I have dealt with have told me that both these devices are a constant nuisance as one usually doesn't have perfect earthing at home and these devices keep tripping. They told me that they only install them because it is needed to get an electric connection and they remove them afterwards because of the constant tripping.

Also, there are a lot more details if you check out the technical specifications of these devices right from breaking characteristics to threshold values which should be checked before deciding. Even MCBs have different types depending upon how much inrush current they can handle before tripping. In reality MCB is nothing but a better fuse. That's why these days one has to install at least one MCCB at the entry point because it is much smarter device.

Originally Posted by graaja

So, if the sensors are not the culprit, what else could be the problem? Has anyone else faced similar problem and got it solved?

Thanks in advance for all the inputs.

Do these new fridges still use a mechanical timer?

[graaja]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

Do these new fridges still use a mechanical timer?

No. There is no mechanical timer. Everything is electronically controlled. The service technician replaced three temperature sensors (NTC thermistors). All these are connected to the controller board which has a microcontroller that implements the measurement and control logic.